Emulation vs. Original Hardware

[Leon]

I still don't get what the deal is with FPGA. Is it real hardware shrunk down considerably thanks to all the progress technology has made over the last 40 years or is it just emulation rebranded? Because if it's the latter then I'll stick to free software thank you very much. I have seen a bunch of Youtube videos on the topic but as I understand it the faults that are inherently there in emulation are still kinda there? What's the point then?

Field programmable gate array=FPGA, basically it's hardware that can minic other hardware, in this case, it could borderline perfectly mimic the cpu of the nes for example.

 

[ThirdEidolon]

I still don't get what the deal is with FPGA. Is it real hardware shrunk down considerably thanks to all the progress technology has made over the last 40 years or is it just emulation rebranded? Because if it's the latter then I'll stick to free software thank you very much. I have seen a bunch of Youtube videos on the topic but as I understand it the faults that are inherently there in emulation are still kinda there? What's the point then?

that's literally exactly what it is. it has the same accuracy in terms of input lag as original hardware and looks exactly the same on a crt screen. and rather than owning multiple consoles, you can downsize a bit and it works with roms. at its core, it is hardware emulation. not software.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2024

Field programmable gate array=FPGA, basically it's hardware that can minic other hardware, in this case, it could borderline perfectly mimic the cpu of the nes for example.

close enough that no one can tell the difference, basically. yeah.

 

[Clippy]

Field programmable gate array=FPGA, basically it's hardware that can minic other hardware, in this case, it could borderline perfectly mimic the cpu of the nes for example.

that's literally exactly what it is. it has the same accuracy in terms of input lag as original hardware and looks exactly the same on a crt screen. and rather than owning multiple consoles, you can downsize a bit and it works with roms. at its core, it is hardware emulation. not software.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2024

close enough that no one can tell the difference, basically. yeah.

Ah, so instead of providing a translation layer between whatever instruction set a console has and an x86/x64 CPU it simply tries to execute said instruction set natively, thus reducing at least some of the overhead?

If I've got it right then it sounds like a pretty efficient idea. Gotta ask about the downsides now, since it's not like FPGA has taken the world by storm so there's gotta be a catch. My guess would be cost of R&D and, well, purchase at least as far as the end user is concerned.

 

[Leon]

Ah, so instead of providing a translation layer between whatever instruction set a console has and an x86/x64 CPU it simply tries to execute said instruction set natively, thus reducing at least some of the overhead?

If I've got it right then it sounds like a pretty efficient idea. Gotta ask about the downsides now, since it's not like FPGA has taken the world by storm so there's gotta be a catch. My guess would be cost of R&D and, well, purchase at least as far as the end user is concerned.

The downsides are cost and efficiency basically, notice how modern games run like garbage?
Most modern games run on unreal engine 5, games made in older or custom engines will usually run better.
Basically, being able to do alot means you need alot more work to do it and it costs more, both financially and performance wise to get it to work.

FPGA's are quite popular in many fields, but system preservation is a niche within a niche when it comes to this stuff.
I believe there's also a maximum circuitry limit which is why you don't see them for stuff like ps3 being made in FPGA's, the overhead would be tremendous if it's even possible.

 

[ATenderLad]

Ah, so instead of providing a translation layer between whatever instruction set a console has and an x86/x64 CPU it simply tries to execute said instruction set natively, thus reducing at least some of the overhead?

My understanding is most gains are a result of the different components being emulated individually, since the FPGA is programmed to reproduce all of them. Instead of your CPU interpreting everything on it's lonesome, an FPGA SNES core has the all the different parts, like the DSP and PPU working simultaneously.

MiSTer is still kinda niche to be something I *need*, or at least I don't feel compelled to spend the money to get setup, but the work put in by the various core developers is absolutely praiseworthy.

 

[Zemus]

It depends on the game to an extent (old RPGs truly do need speedup), but moreso on the weight and feel of the system. Playing games on a computer or phone is simply not fun. Same for anything you need to plug in. Once I've taken compatibility into account, a given ROM goes on my 3DS XL, my GBA, my DMG, or whatever handheld I'm testing at the time (always something like those, usually Ambernic!).

 

[Parasite_Steve]

Original hardware when possible or preferred: in a couple of games like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Tekken 3 or Crash Bandicoot my reflexes are so fine-tuned that the slight differences through emulation totally throws me off.

Here's the big asterisk to that: everything before and incuding the PS1 has become so ridiculously convenient and fun to emulate, that I don't tend to bother with anything else anymore. I still regularly play PS1 and Saturn on my crt but depending on the game I sometimes find myself clamoring for the myriad quality of life improvements of retroarch like save states, filters or a z-buffer for the PS1 that makes all the fully polygonal games so much better-looking. I do have a megadrive with a couple of games but I never started a big collection because at the time cartridge prices started to rise and emulation was already smooth as butter. I do have a chipped PS2 for imports, isos and emulators that still gets a lot of action. I don't really have the hardware for decent PS2 emulation anyway. I've switched to emulation with the Dreamcast but mainly because the cd drive sounds like a coffee grinder.

 

[Yachad]

Original hardware with everdrive, GDEMU, Super HD System3 and others .... :D.
Emulation on handheld Console .

 

[newageretrohippie]

I gotta say original hardware is my favorite, but i like to hack it a little bit not as much for graphics but to get better audio, because the audio can be pretty noisey in the digital radio hell of today's electromagnetic spectrum.

i like flashcarts and compilations, and i actually like not having save states. These things take so little power, its like more of an experience when you know your options are A) leave the power on. B) get gud

...

2nd is fpga emulation because its so much easier to get the timing and feel just right and you can still have a small package which holds all your games/consoles/retro computers and plug to medern equipment. its too bad how intel made the de10 nano so inaccessible in the past couple years tho... they suck

***sipeed tang for the win!***

...

3rd is software emulation... i always want to like it and its convenient, but it rarely feels right (with exceptions like mednafen) i never really get into a game the way i want to and i end up fiddling endlessly with stupid retroarch settings that never really satisfy me (instead of just playing the game)... then i get distracted by... everything else you can do with a general purposes computer

...

There are hardware emulators you can buy (FPGA), but Linus Shill Tips made it a lot harder to get hold of them.

Fucker.

ltt isnt to blame, the blame lies squarely with intel. They didnt like mister so they doubled the price (on 10 year old hardware) and pulled it from amazon. You can buy them from electronics supply houses such as digikey all day long (at the new price of 230 dollars)

Post automatically merged: Dec 24, 2024

My understanding is most gains are a result of the different components being emulated individually, since the FPGA is programmed to reproduce all of them. Instead of your CPU interpreting everything on it's lonesome, an FPGA SNES core has the all the different parts, like the DSP and PPU working simultaneously.

MiSTer is still kinda niche to be something I *need*, or at least I don't feel compelled to spend the money to get setup, but the work put in by the various core developers is absolutely praiseworthy.

Mister is an excellent platform, and it became so well supported by the community because when it started (7 or 8 years ago) it was extremely inexpensive for the hardware involved

the DE 10 nano contains about 120k logic elements, 1 GB DDR 3 and 2 arm cores (pretty slow ones tho). It originally cost about about 120 dollars and intel sold it on amazon.

...

intel are stupid jerks tho. Once they found out about mister (about 2 years ago), they pulled it from amazon and they doubled the price. Scalpers stepped in and jacked up the price even more.

if you are gonna buy a de10 nano today, get it from a reputable electronics supplier such as digikey

https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/t/terasic-tech/de10-nano

...

a fellow named taki udon has been producing a clone board (which is actually a slight upgrade) for 95 dollars, but he doesnt have the supply chain in place to produce quantity (so far he has shipped about 6000 units and they sell out instantly.)

MiSTER Pi

We create gaming consoles, handhelds, and DIY solutions for gaming devices.

retroremake.co

...

also a company called qmtech makes a clone board, but it doesnt support all the accessories due to a different form factor. It is also perpetually out of stock.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807671695689.html

...

the current state of mister is sadly fomo AF.

...

i recommend people check out the up and coming Sipeed tang lineup if they want to try out fpga. Sipeed are big supporters of gaming as well as open hardware standards and they have a decent supply chain in place.

the 20 dollar "sipeed tang nano 20k" is a great place to start. 40 dollars will get you a kit with everything you need to run NEStang and SNEStang. You can go from there.

...

Sipeed Tang Nano 20K GW2AR-18 FPGA Single Board Computer, Open Source RISCV Linux Retro Game Console, Onboard 64Mbits SDRAM BL616 Debugger, Support Multiple Display Outputs NES Emulator https://a.co/d/6pbcrDs

nand2mario - Overview

FPGA retro gaming and computing. . nand2mario has 21 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

 

[Rebecca]

I personally enjoy both, but I cannot recommend emulation (setting things is still not trivial) and cannot recommend OG hardware (space and budget shrink as one gets older and gets more responsibilities).
So, the happy middle point could be the emulation hardware that's set up and ready to go.

 

[Mecharocca]

Emulation. I love the culture and history and have fond memories with original hardware, but I don't have much of a need to go back to go back to them (plus the space they take up is massive). The convenience, accessibility and tinkering options make me just like emulation more.

 

[RETROVETRO]

OG hardware is good but Emulation is also good, Emulation is really good for preservation and High quality for games like V-SYNC and Anisotropic filtering, But OG hardware can be good in it's own way

 

[MistHunter]

Both of them.
if I could put it simply:
"YOU ARE MINE (TO PLAY)!!! ?_?"
...until someone wants his/her console, computer or any device back from my hands.
it really depends on the situation, whether it's mine or someone else's.

 

[Zerpina]

I have a sizable collection of original hardware, but I honestly prefer emulation these days.

I do as well, been collecting for Along time. but Really i don't Care to play original hardware anymore. I Lived playing it when it was new, and CRT screens/Filters give me a Massive Migraine Lately, Something with the Flicker you don't see but you're brain can.

And upscaleing and Smoothing is nice.

Again i played a lot of what i do now, when it was new.

Nothing wrong with playing on original hardware if you like. it's all down to Preference Honestly.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

Due to lack of support for older hardware, and the likelihood of loss of games, i much prefer emulation or PC ports of games. Otherwise it's just too expensive to try and get the hardware and games because they refuse to keep the older consoles alive and refuse to keep printing the popular discs instead pushing for artificial scarcity.

On top of that copyright is too damn long and needs to be reeled back to something, like 10 or 20 years.

 

[Patches]

Original hardware is mainly just a novelty now it is fun to unearth the ps2 and wii, but they do better collecting dust than gaming on. Its a lot easier to immerse on mobile, or pc.

 

[Zerpina]

Original hardware is mainly just a novelty now it is fun to unearth the ps2 and wii, but they do better collecting dust than gaming on. Its a lot easier to immerse on mobile, or pc.

Agreed, i keep my Consoles and Games Safely Stored away, Alot easier to boot up my Batocera System and play something on it

 

[rosemarymenace]

There is 100% no reason to play a game like GT2 on original hardware, but a lot of the time I'll choose to play games on the actual console just out of convenience, don't like having to hook up everything to my PC whenever my consoles are quicker to set up

 

[CrydersMakesMeJump]

I always try going for hardware when I can (have a literal stack of burnt dreamcast stuff for like years lol), but most of the time I just go for the most accurate emulation simply out of convience. I do still have some nitpicks with how some consoles are like in emulators but I'm really happy more and more emulators slowly become as accurate as possible, especially 3d ones I was really excited for when pcsx2 was picked up by the duckstation dev.

 

[adrianamarci]

Original hardware and games, but some games are nice too via emulation to play in 4k.

 

[rugal]

love to play on my original hardware
i do have my ps1 first xbox and nes set up

but for most of the time i play on emulator since you can get better video quality and you have alot of other settings to make the game experience more enjoyable

and emulkator have the filter that can make any new screen or tv have the same color as old analog tv so you get the retro feeling

emu are better since you only need a pc to play all old games

the original hardware you need sometimes upgrade them or you need adapter cables to play on newer tv

all new tv screens the color is not the same as a retro tv because of the different between an new tv and a retro tv
the new tv as more color and mor brighter color and a retro tv has warmer color

 

[Mist64]

highly depends on the game and the platform. sega saturn emulation i am not a fan of unfortunately, however ps2 emulation i love a lot to the point where i sold my ps2 just to have it on my computer instead. dreamcast emulation is good although i wish flycast would have some more focus in lowering input lag which ive had issues with

 

[Gin]

For economic reasons, emulation is better. Despite that, I'm also a fan of playing on real hardware and I hope to one day get my hands on the Sega consoles, especially the Saturn. In the meantime, I emulate what I can emulate and what I can't, I play on my PS2 via OPL.

 

[Ian Naxieas]

Nowadays, pretty much exclusively emulation. We do have a nice setup for games that don't emulate well, like Wii games that rely on motion controls, but we're in a pretty darn good time for emulators being good. I remember always dreading setting up ePSXe and PCSX2 with all their plugins and shit, but now thanks to DuckStation and PCSX2 changing things around, it's a cinch to get games running and looking good. I remember not that long ago I was going insane trying to find an emulator that ran Final Fantasy Tactics well and without stupid errors. I've played that game long enough to know when there's a fucking single pixel out of place and it WILL make me go feral. But now DuckStation handles whatever I throw at it and I'm up and running with some minor tweaking, if even that. Not to mention other high quality emulators like Dolphin. And hell, it wasn't that long ago that I was having trouble emulating Dreamcast and Saturn games either. Now it's a breeze. Even with Nintendo going on a warpath against emulators, we still have it relatively well.

 

[zilbert25]

Original is always nice and nostalgic, but you cant really beat new hardware...Upscalled games look amazing, shaders, all of that makes me want to replay a lot of games I love.