Classic Sonic Thread

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I really gotta do that last update.

And honestly even as a solo characters it's a genuinely good hack with the first two games combined.

 

[muscipula]

sonic frontiers definitely didn't click with me. the first island was enjoyable enough but I just remember being so bored with ares island and all those bullshit medals i didnt bother to pick it back up

 

[moonbits]

Has anyone played Penny's Big Breakaway?
I think I read somewhere it was originally a Sonic game, you can sort of feel it.
(fantastic game by the way)

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Has anyone played Penny's Big Breakaway?
I think I read somewhere it was originally a Sonic game, you can sort of feel it.
(fantastic game by the way)

Yes, I have.

But to be honest I had more of a Kirby's Forgotten Land and Ristar feel than a Sonic one.

 

[Swagmata]

Sonic CD had such a compelling visual direction that I really wish we got more off. The closest we got is probably the ova which is super dope. It’s not my favorite gameplay wise but it’s grown on me a lot over the years tho. Sometimes I have fun just kinda messing around in the gigantic, more vertically oriented levels.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Sonic CD had such a compelling visual direction that I really wish we got more off. The closest we got is probably the ova which is super dope.

I thought that the OVA was an adaption of CD but it's still good.

Mania is the closest to something like CD.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

I need to give Sonic CD a fairer shake once I get the caps on my MegaCD replaced.

While I've enjoyed playing/owning it, I've never managed to finish it. I think it's the slight difference in physics when compared with 2, since I've played that the most. I just never really got used to it.

 

[Swagmata]

I thought that the OVA was an adaption of CD but it's still good.

Mania is the closest to something like CD.

Yeah the ova is not cannon to the games. They have a super similar aesthetic so ur not crazy for thinking that. There’s a bunch of weird little lore stuff in the ova that’s cool but not cannon to the games. The whole flying cities juxtaposed with a ruined earth as well as knuckles being a treasure hunter thing are specific to the ova. I think it was supposed to launch an anime or something.

 

[Graw]

While I've enjoyed playing/owning it, I've never managed to finish it. I think it's the slight difference in physics when compared with 2, since I've played that the most. I just never really got used to it.

The physics aren't different apart from the lack of a spin dash but the level design is quite different and not super well suited to the fast pace of sonic games. It's more of an exploration platformer wearing a sonic skin. With Sonic 2 they basically took the fast paced levels from Sonic 1 and built the game around them. With Sonic CD they took the long convoluted precision platforming levels from Sonic 1 and built the game around them. Sonic CD and Sonic 2 were made with two completely different philosophies in mind and even though they're both sonic games and were made at the same time, they play fairly differently from eachother.

 

[tunezlovfull]

someone please help me every time i look at the sonic 3 sprite he looks different i cant take it anymore hes like the fucking mona lisa i dont know what is behind that expression what was takashi yuda thinking

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

The physics aren't different apart from the lack of a spin dash but the level design is quite different and not super well suited to the fast pace of sonic games. It's more of an exploration platformer wearing a sonic skin. With Sonic 2 they basically took the fast paced levels from Sonic 1 and built the game around them. With Sonic CD they took the long convoluted precision platforming levels from Sonic 1 and built the game around them. Sonic CD and Sonic 2 were made with two completely different philosophies in mind and even though they're both sonic games and were made at the same time, they play fairly differently from eachother.

Yeah It's possible that this is exactly why I've not managed to get super into CD as much as I have with 2.

It probably also helps that I spent many years as a kid learning how Sonic 2 worked, but not so much with Sonic CD.

Once I've repaired my hardware, I'm gonna give it another go with a slower pace in mind. Either that, or find an emulator that will run my physical disc

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I need to give Sonic CD a fairer shake once I get the caps on my MegaCD replaced.

While I've enjoyed playing/owning it, I've never managed to finish it. I think it's the slight difference in physics when compared with 2, since I've played that the most. I just never really got used to it.

It's more like a "Sonic 1.5" as it's retaining many elements of the first game (like Sonic's sprite colour, the speed cap and even the lightpoles instead of starpoles).

You can also get Sonic CD via either Origins, the mobile remaster on Android/iOS and perhaps getting the PC port (or via Gems Collection on the GameCube).

Yeah the ova is not cannon to the games. They have a super similar aesthetic so ur not crazy for thinking that. There’s a bunch of weird little lore stuff in the ova that’s cool but not cannon to the games. The whole flying cities juxtaposed with a ruined earth as well as knuckles being a treasure hunter thing are specific to the ova. I think it was supposed to launch an anime or something.

That lore sounds better than whatever inconsistent (sometimes fan-fic sounding) world Sega and the Sonic Team have pulled over the years.

I'll always prefer Sonic's planet being called Mobius (which could be a far future version of Earth) instead of acting as if Sonic lived in the real world where humans lived in equivalents of our actual countries (like Spagonia being Europe or something).

Knuckles being a treasure hunter may have had influenced on Sonic Adventure since he hunts the shards of the Master Emerald in it.

PS: Also Tails being scared of lightnings is kinda cute.

 

[tunezlovfull]

It's more like a "Sonic 1.5" as it's retaining many elements of the first game (like Sonic's sprite colour, the speed cap and even the lightpoles instead of starpoles).

You can also get Sonic CD via either Origins, the mobile remaster on Android/iOS and perhaps getting the PC port (or via Gems Collection on the GameCube).


That lore sounds better than whatever inconsistent (sometimes fan-fic sounding) world Sega and the Sonic Team have pulled over the years.

I'll always prefer Sonic's planet being called Mobius (which could be a far future version of Earth) instead of acting as if Sonic lived in the real world where humans lived in equivalents of our actual countries (like Spagonia being Europe or something).

Knuckles being a treasure hunter may have had influenced on Sonic Adventure since he hunts the shards of the Master Emerald in it.

PS: Also Tails being scared of lightnings is kinda cute.

although i do love sonic ova too, i think the lore implications are that sonic and his anthro friends were the last surviving descendants of some long dead civilization(a la angel island in the games), and they now live with the humans together in south island or something. its nice that the lore is just barely implied in this film, it makes the world a bit more lived in; and it also reminds me of a better time when south island was the main living place of the sonic cast rather than green hills,, ughh

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

although i do love sonic ova too, i think the lore implications are that sonic and his anthro friends were the last surviving descendants of some long dead civilization(a la angel island in the games), and they now live with the humans together in south island or something. its nice that the lore is just barely implied in this film, it makes the world a bit more lived in; and it also reminds me of a better time when south island was the main living place of the sonic cast rather than green hills,, ughh

While it has been told that while Sonic & Co are living in islands and humans are on continents I think that Sega and the Sonic Team f-ed up with how they introduced them (and how they've ditched the american canon in favour of the japanese one without even asking nor trying to conciliate the two).

Even if Adventure was well received back then, seeing Sonic suddenly casually talking to humans in a realistic city with cars and buildings as if he always lived there while in his previous game he didn't felt jarring to say the least. It's almost as if Sonic Adventure was a soft reboot of the franchise rather than a sequel to the Genesis (and Saturn to a lesser extent) titles.

At least they managed to make Robotnik/Eggman still named both as Eggman was a mocking nickname from Sonic ("Look! It's a giant talking egg!") and still referenced previous areas in the franchise like Angel Island with Ice Cap being the eponymous level from Sonic 3 or previous characters like Metal Sonic in a container but sadly they removed that kid telling about Little Planet in the English Localisation.

(Translated version there)

I think Sonic suffered from a massive localisation issues.

And yes, South Island is more than just Green Hills... There are many traces of an ancient civilisation (which may be birds as we see them) and maybe Longclaw is a reference to that. Green Hill is iconic but not the sole representative area of Sonic 1. What is even Starlight Zone btw? A city?

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

It's more like a "Sonic 1.5" as it's retaining many elements of the first game (like Sonic's sprite colour, the speed cap and even the lightpoles instead of starpoles).

You can also get Sonic CD via either Origins, the mobile remaster on Android/iOS and perhaps getting the PC port (or via Gems Collection on the GameCube).

Ironically, I have literally all of the releases you mentioned lmao including the original Mega CD release.

I feel like I probably should have stopped buying copies of a game I've never fully committed to finishing if I'm 100% honest with myself.

 

[tunezlovfull]

While it has been told that while Sonic & Co are living in islands and humans are on continents I think that Sega and the Sonic Team f-ed up with how they introduced them (and how they've ditched the american canon in favour of the japanese one without even asking nor trying to conciliate the two).

Even if Adventure was well received back then, seeing Sonic suddenly casually talking to humans in a realistic city with cars and buildings as if he always lived there while in his previous game he didn't felt jarring to say the least. It's almost as if Sonic Adventure was a soft reboot of the franchise rather than a sequel to the Genesis (and Saturn to a lesser extent) titles.

At least they managed to make Robotnik/Eggman still named both as Eggman was a mocking nickname from Sonic ("Look! It's a giant talking egg!") and still referenced previous areas in the franchise like Angel Island with Ice Cap being the eponymous level from Sonic 3 or previous characters like Metal Sonic in a container but sadly they removed that kid telling about Little Planet in the English Localisation.

(Translated version there)
View attachment 57675

I think Sonic suffered from a massive localisation issues.

And yes, South Island is more than just Green Hills... There are many traces of an ancient civilisation (which may be birds as we see them) and maybe Longclaw is a reference to that. Green Hill is iconic but not the sole representative area of Sonic 1. What is even Starlight Zone btw? A city?

yeah, one of my favourite parts of sonic lore unironically is just where sonic and his friends were born; sonic being from christmas island, tails from west side island, and amy from mirage island. its genuinely really cute how they all come from little modest unknown islands in the world and they all eventually met up and went into adventures in the human world, it’s got that indescribable innocence to it that I associate with early sonic and sega as a whole.

But I hadn’t really thought about sega forcefully overwriting the American sonic lore; I know we all love making fun of the sonic bible but i never really thought about the lack of respect that sega gave their American branch. I only got into sonic four or so years ago, I love him to death but all my nostalgia for him only really comes from my later teenage years, so I sadly don’t have much connection to the Archie comics. I personally am not a fan of the alien sonic direction of lore, it does makes sense considering how weird looking they are but I like the idea of them just having occupied obscure undiscovered places on the planet, it makes their world so much more rich and colourful.

 

[Swagmata]

It's more like a "Sonic 1.5" as it's retaining many elements of the first game (like Sonic's sprite colour, the speed cap and even the lightpoles instead of starpoles).

You can also get Sonic CD via either Origins, the mobile remaster on Android/iOS and perhaps getting the PC port (or via Gems Collection on the GameCube).


That lore sounds better than whatever inconsistent (sometimes fan-fic sounding) world Sega and the Sonic Team have pulled over the years.

I'll always prefer Sonic's planet being called Mobius (which could be a far future version of Earth) instead of acting as if Sonic lived in the real world where humans lived in equivalents of our actual countries (like Spagonia being Europe or something).

Knuckles being a treasure hunter may have had influenced on Sonic Adventure since he hunts the shards of the Master Emerald in it.

PS: Also Tails being scared of lightnings is kinda cute.

Honestly yeah I agree. I feel like my personal ideal sonic has a little bit of that darker American sonic weirdness and the sort of “lost paradise” they introduced in the OVA. Being cannon to the games really doesn’t mean much since the cannon is all over the place anyways

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

To be fair, the canon has been a nightmare since the 90s.


Everything from Ovi Kintobor & Brown Sonic to characters like Boom Box and Porker Lewis. Complete insanity.

Also, we are talking about the canon of a neon blue woodland creature who can travel at the speed of sound and beyond so I guess expecting it to make sense might be a bit much.

 

[Swagmata]

To be fair, the canon has been a nightmare since the 90s.


Everything from Ovi Kintobor & Brown Sonic to characters like Boom Box and Porker Lewis. Complete insanity.

Also, we are talking about the canon of a neon blue woodland creature who can travel at the speed of sound and beyond so I guess expecting it to make sense might be a bit much.

True but if they can make the ninja turtles into a coherent cannon they can def do it for the blue guy.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Everything from Ovi Kintobor & Brown Sonic to characters like Boom Box and Porker Lewis. Complete insanity.

They're from comics so they can be seen as non canon.

I still wish they gave Robotnik a real backstory about why he hates Sonic, even Bowser had a somehow "valid" reason to dislike the plumber.

Also, we are talking about the canon of a neon blue woodland creature who can travel at the speed of sound and beyond so I guess expecting it to make sense might be a bit much.

And Star Wars is about a group of guys in dressing gowns that can do telekinesis and use laser swords.


Jokes aside even if the premise can sound ridiculous when taken with a realistic point of view it doesn't mean that it cannot have a good story or lore.

I mean look at Kirby: this franchise stars a bubblegum-coloured marshmallow creature that only think about eating most of the time yet Hal Lab managed to make one of the craziest lore you could see in a platformer.

And then again we have other franchises like Spyro or Jak & Daxter that tried to have some consistent and complete world building. No need to make it like a RPG but at least making the world feel alive is a good thing.

Even Mario in the latest 3D entries had some lore that go beyond "a plumber saving a princess from the claws of a giant, fire breathing tortoise".

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Sonic and Tails playing SEGA Saturn… on the SEGA Saturn.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

View attachment 58704
Sonic and Tails playing SEGA Saturn… on the SEGA Saturn.

Sonic the Screensaver is really neat.

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

And Star Wars is about a group of guys in dressing gowns that can do telekinesis and use laser swords.


Jokes aside even if the premise can sound ridiculous when taken with a realistic point of view it doesn't mean that it cannot have a good story or lore.

yeah, to be honest, my point was more that with an IP like Sonic, the kooky shit gives you a lot of room to maneavuer, but doesn't mean that everything will work.

for example, in Star Wars, the inclusion of Midichlorians is hated not because it doesn't make sense, if anything it makes too much sense. IMO the reason people hate that is because it takes away from The Force being an otherworldy energy that binds all living beings together, instead making it an easy-to-explain natural phenomenon like a hormone system or sweating.

Similarly, with Sonic being about something this silly/zany, you have so much room to breathe and do basically whatever you'd like with the narrative, but that doesn't mean you can just do anything you'd like, e.g: Bestiality moment in '06

I think that you can do almost anything within the Sonic universe as long as it remains consistent. The big issue with current Sonic canon is that it's simultaneously constrained by wanting to be taken seriously (ancient civilizations and world-shattering destruction keep cropping up) but still totally mental when it tries to do anything because we're watching these characters react overly dramatically despite all being very silly/whimsical in the way they're designed.

I think in many ways they just need to dial it back a bit. It's all well and good having these dramatic moments, and when they're earned they can feel epic, but for a bit, it would be nice to have some more laid back moments in the Sonic canon to really re-define the characters fro the new crop of fans who've shown up over the past decade. Honestly, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog was one of the most enjoyable Sonic story experiences I've had in ages because we were seeing the characters just interacting with each other and having a chill time.

I'd like to see a new sonic game that can still be epic and dramatic where it counts, but also allows the characters to do some of the fun/funny stuff we used to see them do back in the day.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Similarly, with Sonic being about something this silly/zany, you have so much room to breathe and do basically whatever you'd like with the narrative, but that doesn't mean you can just do anything you'd like, e.g: Bestiality moment in '06

I'd will argue that it shouldn't be called b- because mobians are still a sentient species with human-level of thoughts and consciousness. It's not a literal hedgehog that lives in the backyard.

On the other hand that scene is awful because of how cliche the whole "waking up kiss" was and how there's absolutely no chemistry between Sonic and Elise as she's a shoehorned princess that only served the plot and nothing else (while other medium managed to make princesses cool).

for example, in Star Wars, the inclusion of Midichlorians is hated not because it doesn't make sense, if anything it makes too much sense. IMO the reason people hate that is because it takes away from The Force being an otherworldy energy that binds all living beings together, instead making it an easy-to-explain natural phenomenon like a hormone system or sweating.

Now I would agree about the whole bacteria thing although the Force itself makes no sense in a purely physical sense. The Spice from Dune at least had some explanation that stood well (since it was the inspiration for SW).

I think that you can do almost anything within the Sonic universe as long as it remains consistent. The big issue with current Sonic canon is that it's simultaneously constrained by wanting to be taken seriously (ancient civilizations and world-shattering destruction keep cropping up) but still totally mental when it tries to do anything because we're watching these characters react overly dramatically despite all being very silly/whimsical in the way they're designed.

The Kirby franchise also talks about some serious lore while still being cutesy. It's a matter of how rather than whom.

I think in many ways they just need to dial it back a bit. It's all well and good having these dramatic moments, and when they're earned they can feel epic, but for a bit, it would be nice to have some more laid back moments in the Sonic canon to really re-define the characters fro the new crop of fans who've shown up over the past decade. Honestly, The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog was one of the most enjoyable Sonic story experiences I've had in ages because we were seeing the characters just interacting with each other and having a chill time.

Yet when Sega wanted a more laid-back Sonic with Colours and Lost World people also hated the stories (although Colours was a nice breath of fresh air with Eggman not being betrayed by the big monster he summoned and no end game super sonic fight).

I'd like to see a new sonic game that can still be epic and dramatic where it counts, but also allows the characters to do some of the fun/funny stuff we used to see them do back in the day.

Sonic Adventure was pretty consistent with its own lore by connecting it to Sonic 3&K and Angel Island while adding new lore bits without going too overboard in the seriousness. I think the issue is that Sonic Adventure 2 then Shadow the Hedgehog that tried to connect to a more complex story but also when they went too far. Sonic 2006 didn't even know if it was a fully fledged reboot of the licence or a sequel to Shadow.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

So, a lore theory I’ve had for a while, we know that not all Sonic stories are a part of the same line of plots (AOSTH, SATAM, Prime, X, Boom, Movies, OVA, etc.) but as I’ve been playing a lot of Saturn and SEGA Arcade goodness, I’ve had this thought:

Is Sonic The Fighters in its own lore as well? Or, more importantly, a shared universe with many of SEGA’s arcade games. It would make sense enough, with there being eight emeralds, Eggman’s cloning tech, and Honey the Cat potentially being a character who would be an in-universe cosplayer of some kind? It would also make Fighters Megamix canonized for Sonic the Fighters, which would in turn connect Sonic The Fighters with all the other games SEGA AM2 and AM3 were making.

It’s food for thought, more than anything. I wouldn’t take it too seriously, as Classic Sonic lore beyond the mainline adventures (1, 2, CD, 3&K, Mania, Superstars) is pretty loosey goosey as it is. I’m still not FULLY CONVINCED Mania Adventures is actually canonical to the Mania game, but that’s for another day and I’d need to get my story straight on that one before proposing a full on theory.

Honestly, more than anything, I’m happy to be in a place where I can talk about Sonic’s world again with some seriousness! Whatever you may think of recent titles, the positivity around Sonic right now is infectious and I’m just happy to know that kids are currently growing up with a pretty cool time to be a Sonic fan. Certainly a better childhood with the blue blur than I had!