Best Sonic Formula?

[Miles Miles]

Hahaha unfortunately I know this all too well. I'm a massive PSO fan that latched onto the global release day one. NGS has been... not so great.

When Frontiers trailers were first dropping I immediately recognized it. Was amazed that Sonic Team just flat out reused NGS assets. I guess that kind of laziness should have been expected. They lifted a bunch of those cyberspace stage layouts from older Sonic titles too.

These seem to be the sacrifices a studio must make if they wish to release an open world title. And to that I say "Why even go open world in the first place?" I'm quite biased though. PSO2 went open world with NGS and it ruined everything. Dynasty Warriors went open world with 9 and it ruined everything. I've noticed a pattern.

Yeah Frontiers looks super lazy. It doesn't even look like a Sonic game.

 

[Segadude113]

Hahaha unfortunately I know this all too well. I'm a massive PSO fan that latched onto the global release day one. NGS has been... not so great.

When Frontiers trailers were first dropping I immediately recognized it. Was amazed that Sonic Team just flat out reused NGS assets. I guess that kind of laziness should have been expected. They lifted a bunch of those cyberspace stage layouts from older Sonic titles too.

These seem to be the sacrifices a studio must make if they wish to release an open world title. And to that I say "Why even go open world in the first place?" I'm quite biased though. PSO2 went open world with NGS and it ruined everything. Dynasty Warriors went open world with 9 and it ruined everything. I've noticed a pattern.

The original PSO is still around but not officially.

 

[Sunnyside]

I think focusing so heavily on speed also makes Sonic games a nightmare to develop. The faster Sonic runs, the larger the levels have to be. And you've got to have a decent amount of setpieces or the stages look bland. So how do you mitigate this incredibly wasteful design model?

Well, Sonic Team's tried a few things. They recycle levels. They lock progression behind collectables. They overuse 2D sections in a 3D game. They shoehorn alternate playstyles or characters that force you to move slower, like the Werehog and Silver. All of these are bandaid fixes for the root of the problem. The "good" Sonic levels are a colossal waste of resources by design. You burn through them far too quickly.

I'd be happier with the Sonic series if they ditched the whole "gotta go fast" mantra and put the emphasis back on momentum, like the Classic era games.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

I would say Sonic 3 was peak in all its versions .

Adventure 1 was great but still needed some fine-tuning because Adventure 2 came out somehow rougher than 1 .

But about Sonic overall , im rather more pessimistic than optimistic . In it 2D form it has already many peaks on its own from the mainline to its fan-projects .
The 3D-games are mostly experimental and were hard to get the best sweet-spot in its gameplay . Especially when Sonic-team would finally take it more seriously and provide quality in their games instead .
I give a good example : Instead going hyper-realistic with its graphics , how about cell-shading and more stylised graphics which would make Sonic fit in with the world instead being the cartoon-tumour in an almost photo-realistic it showed with its many games later on . Something more pleasant and more what sonic is known from its classic games .
Atleast it doesnt look uncanny valley stuff and has a style that can be associated and underline with Sonics cartoony asthetics .

 

[KenaiPhoenix]

Adventure

You have different gameplay loops for everyone.

I dream of a Sonic Adventure 3 that is just Sonic Adventure 2 with the "adventure fields" of Adventure 1

 

[Segadude113]

I think focusing so heavily on speed also makes Sonic games a nightmare to develop. The faster Sonic runs, the larger the levels have to be. And you've got to have a decent amount of setpieces or the stages look bland. So how do you mitigate this incredibly wasteful design model?

Well, Sonic Team's tried a few things. They recycle levels. They lock progression behind collectables. They overuse 2D sections in a 3D game. They shoehorn alternate playstyles or characters that force you to move slower, like the Werehog and Silver. All of these are bandaid fixes for the root of the problem. The "good" Sonic levels are a colossal waste of resources by design. You burn through them far too quickly.

I'd be happier with the Sonic series if they ditched the whole "gotta go fast" mantra and put the emphasis back on momentum, like the Classic era games.

why not have Sonic move so fast he teleports?

 

[KittenLikeYou007]

I won’t mention Frontiers since it’s the one Sonic game I haven’t bought yet, even though, to be honest, the art direction didn’t really grab me at first glance. As a longtime Sega fan, especially of Sonic, for me the series has always been about the classic formula. That’s why I loved Sonic Mania , to me, that’s what a true Sonic game is supposed to be.

So I voted classic.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

The only real debate I see here is whether or not you count a chili dog as a sandwich.
The official Sonic cookbook has picked a side:

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

The classic sonic formula never needed to be changed as much as they've tried to do over the years. I've never enjoyed any of the newer 2d games as much as the original genesis ones apart from Mania. They just happened to luck out and make a solid, fun formula right off the bat. Instead of trying to fix what wasn't broken, they should have just refined it the way they did with Sonic 2 and 3. There's nothing wrong with continuing to make more iterations of a good thing people enjoy.

The first Advance was pretty much that.

Rush tried something different and it worked as well.

I think focusing so heavily on speed also makes Sonic games a nightmare to develop. The faster Sonic runs, the larger the levels have to be. And you've got to have a decent amount of setpieces or the stages look bland. So how do you mitigate this incredibly wasteful design model?

Yet the boost gameplay still works well on paper. Either with the Day stages of Unleashed, Colours and Gens' Modern levels.

Well, Sonic Team's tried a few things. They recycle levels. They lock progression behind collectables. They overuse 2D sections in a 3D game. They shoehorn alternate playstyles or characters that force you to move slower, like the Werehog and Silver. All of these are bandaid fixes for the root of the problem. The "good" Sonic levels are a colossal waste of resources by design. You burn through them far too quickly.

Recycling levels for anniversary entries isn't an issue if the levels are made original. Rooftop Run in Generations is clearly having a different layout if not being better than the original game's. On the other hand Planet Wisp is a waster opportunity when the first Act in Colours was well made.

2D sections in the 3D stages are not an issue per se. In fact they're transitory phases between two 3D sections and they still work better than a completely different style. I'd take those over fishing, treasure hunting, silver and the werehog's gameplay.

I'd be happier with the Sonic series if they ditched the whole "gotta go fast" mantra and put the emphasis back on momentum, like the Classic era games.

Sonic x Shadow Generations was a step in the right direction though.

Going fast is not an issue for the boost levels either. They should just ditch trying to make a big story and having multiple playable characters/gameplay style instead. Momentum works better in 2D than 3D as well.

In fact if they decided to make a 2.5D boost game like Sonic Rush that would be entirely fine if the level design is as good as the original Rush game.

 

[Sleepstate]

Classic
Advance
Rush

 

[DrunkGecko]

Fishing, obviously.

No that's the best Zelda formula

 

[cloudsets]

No that's the best Zelda formula

I think you need to meet my good friend Big the Cat.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I think you need to meet my good friend Big the Cat.

A legit part of why I enjoyed Frontiers so much. I genuinely enjoy how his fishing segments mix-up the pacing in Adventure 1

 

[Cosmiken]

Sonic formula. Yummy.

 

[Miles Miles]

Sonic formula. Yummy.

View attachment 102200

We now have uglier Sonic.

 

[Graw]

The first Advance was pretty much that

I didn't really like Sonic Advance. I rented Sonic Advance back in the day and it made me not want to try any of the other ones.

 

[Miles Miles]

I didn't really like Sonic Advance. I rented Sonic Advance back in the day and it made me not want to try any of the other ones.

If you didn't like Advance, then you probably wouldn't like the other Advance games.

 

[Tonberry]

I wish Frontiers had an actual fun Sonic-feeling world and style instead of that dreadfully dreary ugly ruins thing they tried, because the controls and movement are so much fun to play around with, I just wish there was an actually good game to go with it.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I wish Frontiers had an actual fun Sonic-feeling world and style instead of that dreadfully dreary ugly ruins thing they tried, because the controls and movement are so much fun to play around with, I just wish there was an actually good game to go with it.

I really enjoy Frontiers, but I definitely see where you're coming from. I hope they expand on the idea and they make one unbroken and overall less restrictive world to explore.

 

[Insomnia_ig]

I love all of them but if I had to choose one it would be Classic

 

[Miles Miles]

I wish Frontiers had an actual fun Sonic-feeling world and style instead of that dreadfully dreary ugly ruins thing they tried, because the controls and movement are so much fun to play around with, I just wish there was an actually good game to go with it.

Same. Frontiers looks more like a Unity tech demo than an actual Sonic game.

 

[Turbo Kid]

I honestly had more of a fun time playing Sonic Forces than I did Frontiers. At least Forces actually felt like a Sonic game.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I wish Frontiers had an actual fun Sonic-feeling world and style instead of that dreadfully dreary ugly ruins thing they tried, because the controls and movement are so much fun to play around with, I just wish there was an actually good game to go with it.

I'll say it but even if I didn't mind Station Square nor Central City I think that the checkerboards green hills type of area are the one fitting Sonic the best.


And yes, even if a ton of Sonic fans are becoming tired of the Green Hills recycling over the decade since Generations (which is funny because Mario and Kirby all had grassy areas for their first level of their games since their respective 2D revival with NSMB and Kirby's Return to Dreamland).

They should've settled for three islands as planned while also allowing you to choose which island to do first instead of forcing a progression. The Sonic Team has taken the wrong lessons from Breath of the Wild.

PS: Also Techno Base and Cyber Track will always be better cyberspace-themed levels in the franchise than Frontiers'

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I honestly had more of a fun time playing Sonic Forces than I did Frontiers. At least Forces actually felt like a Sonic game.

Maybe that's why I don't like most Sonic games

 

[Miles Miles]

PS: Also Techno Base and Cyber Track will always be better cyberspace-themed levels in the franchise than Frontiers'
View attachment 102653View attachment 102654

Those look WAY better than Frontiers!