Best Sonic Formula?

[Miles Miles]

Recent version of Colours was bad anyway.
Better play the Wii version on Dolphin with 60 fps patch

Sonic remasters in general suck. DX is terrible, and Battle isn't great. The Sonic Gens remaster looks fine in terms of gameplay, but for some stupid reason they changed the dialogue.

 

[Sunnyside]

I like Unleashed as a spectacle but not as a game. Replayed a good chunk of it recently. It did not age well. The day stages look great and have cool setpieces. The actual level design is horrible. All flash, no substance. Watching someone else play would give me nearly the same experience.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

Honestly, putting Knuckles in the game is half the battle for me. He goes a long way in making me enjoy something Sonic related

 

[Segadude113]

Mania is the way forward for 2D Sonic, especially the cancelled sequel we never got. Just listen to this fan extension of the music Tee Lopes leaked for it.

 

[Miles Miles]

Mania is the way forward for 2D Sonic, especially the cancelled sequel we never got. Just listen to this fan extension of the music Tee Lopes leaked for it.

Mania not getting a sequel was a massive missed opportunity. Also Superstars doesn't count as a sequel to Mania because it was made by a different (and worse) team.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Sonic Unleashed and Gens are way better than Colours.

I'm sorry but no, Unleashed had the night levels to pad out gameplay and Generations is too much relying on nostalgia to be its own game. It almost feels like an expansion of Unleashed's Day levels as a separate title.

Colours is more original and it kinda pains me that it's also the latest Boost Sonic game to be entirely new while Generations was a nostalgia fest, Lost World was a weird experimental game, Boom wasn't even the same continuity, Forces was yet another game with nostalgic levels (among meh new levels) and finally Frontiers had a ton of Generations assets recycling for the Cyberspace levels (with some being recycled level designs).

The franchise doesn't even dare moving forward even if they've tried a new formula with Frontiers.

Recent version of Colours was bad anyway.
Better play the Wii version on Dolphin with 60 fps patch

I didn't have issues with Ultimate myself outside of loadings.

Sonic remasters in general suck. DX is terrible, and Battle isn't great. The Sonic Gens remaster looks fine in terms of gameplay, but for some stupid reason they changed the dialogue.

Sonic Adventure even outside of DX shows its age. What's the issue with Battle outside of cutscenes?

Dialogues weren't that good in the original version to begin with.

Mania is the way forward for 2D Sonic, especially the cancelled sequel we never got. Just listen to this fan extension of the music Tee Lopes leaked for it.

Mania 2 with less recycled levels would've been great.

In fact Sega should've ditched the Sonic Team (or repurposed them for other games) and let the franchise to Evening Star.

 

[Miles Miles]

I'm sorry but no, Unleashed had the night levels to pad out gameplay and Generations is too much relying on nostalgia to be its own game. It almost feels like an expansion of Unleashed's Day levels as a separate title.

Colours is more original and it kinda pains me that it's also the latest Boost Sonic game to be entirely new while Generations was a nostalgia fest, Lost World was a weird experimental game, Boom wasn't even the same continuity, Forces was yet another game with nostalgic levels (among meh new levels) and finally Frontiers had a ton of Generations assets recycling for the Cyberspace levels (with some being recycled level designs).

The franchise doesn't even dare moving forward even if they've tried a new formula with Frontiers.


I didn't have issues with Ultimate myself outside of loadings.


Sonic Adventure even outside of DX shows its age. What's the issue with Battle outside of cutscenes?

Dialogues weren't that good in the original version to begin with.


Mania 2 with less recycled levels would've been great.

In fact Sega should've ditched the Sonic Team (or repurposed them for other games) and let the franchise to Evening Star.

Sonic Unleashed had much higher highs and lower lows. The Werehog sucks, but the boost levels are the best of the boost formula. Colours was just mid the whole time. I'm also not a fan of Gens reusing levels, but that doesn't make Gens a worse game.

Apparently Switch version is by far the worst version. Maybe the non-Switch versions aren't that bad.

Adventure 1 on the Dreamcast is still peak 3D Sonic, despite not looking like a modern game. Battle (at least the GameCube version) isn't a bad port, but the butchered cutscenes alone make the Dreamcast version better.

The dialogue in the OG Gens is bad, the new ones are just even worse.

Mania 2 without recycled levels would be peak!

Yeah Sonic would be much better off (at least in terms of quality) if Evening Star were the main developers instead of Sonic Team.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Sonic Unleashed had much higher highs and lower lows. The Werehog sucks, but the boost levels are the best of the boost formula.

Not every levels are perfect and when you judge a game you are ought to take everything into account.

The shoehorned RPG mechanics, the medals and the hub levels were also padding out the game.

Colours was just mid the whole time. I'm also not a fan of Gens reusing levels, but that doesn't make Gens a worse game.

"Mid" is your opinion to be honest. The game is still a solid platformer.

Gens reusing levels is not intrinsically bad yet in the long run it feels boring to see how the Sonic franchise has stagnated in nostalgia for a decade and a half.

The Kirby franchise did nostalgic fanservice much better.

Apparently Switch version is by far the worst version. Maybe the non-Switch versions aren't that bad.

Aside from stuttering and hiccups in the framerate there's no major issues aside.

Adventure 1 on the Dreamcast is still peak 3D Sonic, despite not looking like a modern game.

"Peak 3D" is maybe a bit too much and very nostalgia-induced. Technically it's still a modern Sonic game.

Battle (at least the GameCube version) isn't a bad port, but the butchered cutscenes alone make the Dreamcast version better.

The original SA2 was already pushing the Dreamcast to its limits and there was an infamous glitch in the very last level of the game (involving Eggman and his mech at the beginning) making the game unfinishable.

Cutscenes are merely visuals that you would skip each subsequent playthrough since the gameplay matters more than the story anyway. I'd rather have a working level than pretty looking cinematic from a 25 years old game.

Also I think there were QoL improvements in Battle so I'd take them.

The dialogue in the OG Gens is bad, the new ones are just even worse.

And once again dialogues in a platforming game shouldn't matter that much.

Mania 2 without recycled levels would be peak!

I'm wondering what kind of ideas they would have. Either way I am sad they haven't redone Starlight Zone or other underused levels in the franchise. I am bored of Chemical Plant.

 

[Miles Miles]

"Peak 3D" is maybe a bit too much and very nostalgia-induced. Technically it's still a modern Sonic game.


The original SA2 was already pushing the Dreamcast to its limits and there was an infamous glitch in the very last level of the game (involving Eggman and his mech at the beginning) making the game unfinishable.

That "infamous glitch" you mentioned is a copy protection measure. That glitch wouldn't happen on a real disc or emulation. Source: https://www.dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7682

What do you consider to be peak 3D Sonic?

 

[ThatOneLum ThatOneLum]

It probably shouldn't be shocking that on a place like RGT, classic wins.

 

[Miles Miles]

It probably shouldn't be shocking that on a place like RGT, classic wins.

It is called RETRO game talk, after all.

 

[SherionVane]

meme formula

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

That "infamous glitch" you mentioned is a copy protection measure. That glitch wouldn't happen on a real disc or emulation. Source: https://www.dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7682

Very interesting. I'd also argue that some of the glitches in Colours Ultimate apparently were on emulators (since usually they aren't perfectly accurate since the console is still currently updated and how the game got leaker earlier).

I'd still argue that even if SA1 and SA2 on the Dreamcast had better visuals I'd prefer a better framerate and skipping cutscenes for the first game and the new additions for the sequel.
Furthermore that doesn't remove the fact that both game had emerald hunting and the first had fishing.

What do you consider to be peak 3D Sonic?

 

[petran79]

I didn't have issues with Ultimate myself outside of loadings.

The issue with Ultimate is that to restore the content of the Wii version, you have to download a mod of multiple GB and even then it is not perfect
I prefer the Wii version with HD textures and 60 fps patch

 

[SolidusSkink]

Removing my huge bias towards classic I'd have to say adventure then frontiers then classic then boost.
Intentional or not Frontiers was the first game in forever to give me the same feeling from Adventure 1 where you're chucking your dude into the sky and zooming around with minimal effort.
The boost games are mostly really fun and the classics are classics for a reason but I'm more than fine with sonic team exploring other formulas since I can just replay the ones we already have over and over like I already do

 

[Miles Miles]

Very interesting. I'd also argue that some of the glitches in Colours Ultimate apparently were on emulators (since usually they aren't perfectly accurate since the console is still currently updated and how the game got leaker earlier).

I'd still argue that even if SA1 and SA2 on the Dreamcast had better visuals I'd prefer a better framerate and skipping cutscenes for the first game and the new additions for the sequel.
Furthermore that doesn't remove the fact that both game had emerald hunting and the first had fishing.

SRB2 is true peak 3D Sonic!

SADX looks way worse than the Dreamcast version, it introduces a lot of bugs, and I heard it doesn't have proper analog stick movement. I don't think the extra framerate makes up for it. Also the extra content in SA2 is just multiplayer and Chao Garden shit. I would much prefer even just a single additional speed stage over the extra content we got in Battle.

Post automatically merged: Aug 18, 2025

Removing my huge bias towards classic I'd have to say adventure then frontiers then classic then boost.
Intentional or not Frontiers was the first game in forever to give me the same feeling from Adventure 1 where you're chucking your dude into the sky and zooming around with minimal effort.
The boost games are mostly really fun and the classics are classics for a reason but I'm more than fine with sonic team exploring other formulas since I can just replay the ones we already have over and over like I already do

Classic is WAY better than Frontiers. Classic is by far the best designed Sonic formula. Frontiers is the worst formula so far. I think Frontiers' sequel will be quite a bit better than Frontiers, but it still won't be great. We have still not yet gotten a proper (official) translation of classic Sonic into 3D, and probably never will. SA1 was the only proper attempt at that, but the Dreamcast's hardware would've made it a lot harder to make a proper translation of classic's physics. SA2 onward Sonic Team just completely gave up on that. SRB2 made the right decision by not including loops. I don't even think SRB2 had proper slope physics until v2.2 in 2019.

 

[petran79]

SRB2 is true peak 3D Sonic!

SADX looks way worse than the Dreamcast version, it introduces a lot of bugs, and I heard it doesn't have proper analog stick movement. I don't think the extra framerate makes up for it. Also the extra content in SA2 is just multiplayer and Chao Garden shit. I would much prefer even just a single additional speed stage over the extra content we got in Battle.

You need SAModmanager for both and dozens of extra mods. There is even one with proper translation of the Japanese dialogues. Another corrects character animations and physics that were present from the Dreamcast version.

 

[Miles Miles]

You need SAModmanager for both and dozens of extra mods. There is even one with proper translation of the Japanese dialogues. Another corrects character animations and physics that were present from the Dreamcast version.

It's just way easier to emulate the Dreamcast original.

 

[Segadude113]

Classic > Adventure > Boost > Frontiers. Somehow the formula's progressed backwards.

Frontiers uses the PSO2NG engine and would work better as a MMO type of game with all the different moves and big open world.

 

[Pearly]

Ingredients

• 1 lb ground beef
• ½ cup chopped onion
• ½ cup chopped bell pepper
• ½ cup chopped mushrooms (some versions include this, others don't)
• 1 tbsp Worcestershire sauce
• 1 (23 oz or 15 oz) can crushed tomatoes (the size may vary slightly between recipes)
• 8 ounces barbecue sauce
• 1 tsp chili powder
• 1 tsp cumin
• 1 tsp oregano
• 1 (16 oz or 15 oz) can red kidney beans (drained)
• Hot dogs
• Hot dog buns
• Shredded cheddar cheese (optional)

Directions

1. Brown the ground beef in a large pan.
2. Add the onions, peppers, and mushrooms (if using) and brown lightly.
3. Stir in the Worcestershire sauce, crushed tomatoes, and barbecue sauce. Bring the mixture to a simmer and cook for 30 minutes.
4. Add the chili powder, cumin, oregano, and drained kidney beans. Continue to simmer for another hour.
5. Add the hot dogs to the chili and cook for 15 minutes in the sauce.
6. Toast the hot dog buns.
7. Place the hot dogs in the toasted buns, generously top with the chili, and add shredded cheddar cheese if desired.

This is the only true response. Chilli dogs for life!!

Worcestershire sauce is underrated. I love that stuff.

Sonic 3 and knuckles, alongside adventure were peak Sonic when it still had it's own identity and wasn't built around speed. They got worse after adventure 1.

The dream cast version of adventure 1, specifically, as that had more charming character models.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Frontiers uses the PSO2NG engine and would work better as a MMO type of game with all the different moves and big open world.

Is that actually the case? No Hedgehog Engine 2 used?

PSO2 New Genesis itself is already a mess of a sequel to the Phantasy Star series... Yes, even despite that PSO2 since Episode 4 had a different director with a worse story...

Either way fans already has made Open World 3D Sonic games like Green Hills Paradise, Utopia among others... For free!

Sonic 3 and knuckles, alongside adventure were peak Sonic when it still had it's own identity and wasn't built around speed. They got worse after adventure 1.

Yet most fans agreed upon Sonic 2 and Sonic Adventure 2 to be the "peak" of the franchise (well, at least a decade and half ago).

What made Sonic 3&K and SA1 not as popular as the prequel for one and the sequel for the other?

 

[Miles Miles]

Frontiers uses the PSO2NG engine and would work better as a MMO type of game with all the different moves and big open world.

Doesn't it use Hedgehog Engine 2?

 

[Graw]

Mania is the way forward for 2D Sonic, especially the cancelled sequel we never got. Just listen to this fan extension of the music Tee Lopes leaked for it.

The classic sonic formula never needed to be changed as much as they've tried to do over the years. I've never enjoyed any of the newer 2d games as much as the original genesis ones apart from Mania. They just happened to luck out and make a solid, fun formula right off the bat. Instead of trying to fix what wasn't broken, they should have just refined it the way they did with Sonic 2 and 3. There's nothing wrong with continuing to make more iterations of a good thing people enjoy.

 

[Miles Miles]

The classic sonic formula never needed to be changed as much as they've tried to do over the years. I've never enjoyed any of the newer 2d games as much as the original genesis ones apart from Mania. They just happened to luck out and make a solid, fun formula right off the bat. Instead of trying to fix what wasn't broken, they should have just refined it the way they did with Sonic 2 and 3. There's nothing wrong with continuing to make more iterations of a good thing people enjoy.

That's basically what Mega Man did. Just make each game the exact same formula, but with a few minor changes.

 

[Sunnyside]

Frontiers uses the PSO2NG engine and would work better as a MMO type of game with all the different moves and big open world.

Hahaha unfortunately I know this all too well. I'm a massive PSO fan that latched onto the global release day one. NGS has been... not so great.

When Frontiers trailers were first dropping I immediately recognized it. Was amazed that Sonic Team just flat out reused NGS assets. I guess that kind of laziness should have been expected. They lifted a bunch of those cyberspace stage layouts from older Sonic titles too.

These seem to be the sacrifices a studio must make if they wish to release an open world title. And to that I say "Why even go open world in the first place?" I'm quite biased though. PSO2 went open world with NGS and it ruined everything. Dynasty Warriors went open world with 9 and it ruined everything. I've noticed a pattern.