Based Hayao Miyazaki

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

His thoughts on AI:

His thoughts on the anime industry:

“Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know.”“It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.”“And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!”

His thoughts on America and Japan (ignore the clickbait title, I think it is more complex than simple hate):

 

[SpcDaicon]

Many people dislike him for being hash but the man has many valid points.

I specially resonate with his opinion on Otakus

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Many people dislike him for being hash but the man has many valid points.

I specially resonate with his opinion on Otakus

You can tell they've never interacted with real women by the archetypes they portray in Anime. Yandere/Tsundere, etc... they are all tired tropes by now. Real women do not behave like this. The way women are portrayed in Ghibli movies is refreshing and honestly one of the best aspects of his films when compared to the rest of the anime landscape.

 

[SpcDaicon]

You can tell they've never interacted with real women by the archetypes they portray in Anime. Yandere/Tsundere, etc... they are all tired tropes by now. Real women do not behave like this. The way women are portrayed in Ghibli movies is refreshing and honestly one of the best aspects of his films when compared to the rest of the anime landscape.

I think they are just rehearsing old anime tropes without any substance now. Many characters nowadays feel flat and fake.

Unfortunetly anime is a very self referencial media and everything becomes a copy of a copy of a copy. Just like Miyazaki says, many otaku just replicate tropes without actualy having to make a character believable.

 

[diapered]

His thoughts on AI:

I felt so bad for that guy and I think Miyazaki was a little harsh, launching into that personal anecdote (also, I am pretty sure there have been ghibli movies of people/creatures moving in unnatural ways, so I don't get his point on that...) But really, what did this dev think was going to happen? He is pitching zombie game to Miyazaki? wtf? What is the context here? It is so bizarre O_o

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

I felt so bad for that guy and I think Miyazaki was a little harsh, launching into that personal anecdote (also, I am pretty sure there have been ghibli movies of people/creatures moving in unnatural ways, so I don't get his point on that...) But really, what did this dev think was going to happen? He is pitching zombie game to Miyazaki? wtf? What is the context here? It is so bizarre O_o

Why do you feel bad for the guy? He's a snake oil salesman, selling the destruction of art and civilization. Their goal is completely abhorrent and a ridiculous use of AI technology. He got the dose of truth he deserved.

Their stated goal "We wish to create a machine that can draw as humans do" would completely tank the reputation and value of Ghibli Studio, which is known for their high quality hand drawn animation. I think that set Miyazaki off more than anything. I think his random criticism was sort of a nitpick coming from an ideological difference with the tech bros in his company.

 

[Zachery2112]

I like this clip because it showed what he said and the context around it. Most people have only seen a screenshot of him saying, "I think this is an insult to life itself" but don't know why he said that beyond some vague understanding that it was about AI.

He brings up the anecdote of a friend with a physical disability. It may seem like a non sequitur, but it is incredibly important to understanding his argument. Life is painful, it is a struggle. Our actions are based around avoiding pain to the best of our abilities, even if it hampers our happiness. The friend's life has been permanently affected by the disabilities. Even something like a high-five, something that is enjoyable for most, can be painful.

Yet these AI salemen come up to Miyazaki and say, "Here's something better than a human could make," and they show him something that was made without the human experience in mind. It moves without fear, without pain, and without regard for itself. The AI creatures only exist to move forward. Hence why they walk with their heads. He was right to call it an insult to life. To dehumanize something to the point that acts like this.

Sure, it's a computer model and it is not real. But art inevitably includes those human experiences like pain, fear, and love. To make something so robotic and call it art is an insult to art and humanity itself.

I love this video.

 

[diapered]

Why do you feel bad for the guy?

Well, I imagine he and his team worked hard on it and it sounded like they were genuinely proud of what they did. Miyazaki could have just said, "no thank you, this is not for us, I feel this has no place for the art we produce here." And left it at that, imo.

He's a snake oil salesman

yea, that is why I need more context. If he is representing some company just recycling a bunch of tools they didn't develop then fuck 'em. But with the age of this video, and how new ai was then, a lot of that must have been developed in house? So his team was working on this at studio ghibli's request?

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

yea, that is why I need more context. If he is representing some company just recycling a bunch of tools they didn't develop then fuck 'em. But with the age of this video, and how new ai was then, a lot of that must have been developed in house? So his team was working on this at studio ghibli's request?

I don't think Miyazaki is necessarily the decider of everything that happens at his studio. He seems like he is a part of a board of decision makers. There may be people on his board that want to move in this more technological heavy direction and he may be the sole voice against it. I don't know for sure how the internal politics of the company works.

Well, I imagine he and his team worked hard on it and it sounded like they were genuinely proud of what they did. Miyazaki could have just said, "no thank you, this is not for us, I feel this has no place for the art we produce here." And left it at that, imo.

Yeah, Japanese business people give no fucks about feelings. lmao. I think it is pretty mild from what I've heard from other anecdotes in the business. Granted, I hate AI tech bros (especially those who sell their AI art tech, which is pretty much legalized IP theft) so I was especially happy to see his comeuppance, but in any other circumstance I would agree with you.

Now to be fair, I do think computer assisted animation has a place in the anime industry. I've seen some uses of it that are interesting. And I'm sure that AI can produce an acceptable product. But Ghibli didn't become the company it did by being acceptable Anime slop. They became what they were because they were industry leaders and their hand drawn animation has a unique quality that cannot be easily replicated. Selling out to the AI overlords would destroy the value of the company IMO.

 

[PrismRed]

I don't think Miyazaki is necessarily the decider of everything that happens at his studio. He seems like he is a part of a board of decision makers. There may be people on his board that want to move in this more technological heavy direction and he may be the sole voice against it. I don't know for sure how the internal politics of the company works.

Watched this somewhere before, if I remember correctly the team that presented the AI model animation worked on this secretly without Miyazaki knowing and wanted to see his opinion on it.

It's just my own interpretation here also I'm bad at conveying words, the AI is presenting a model of what seems to be a human-like creature, I think Miyazaki was disappointed since if there is a human who looked like that they should not move like what the AI depicted in the animation, thus his comment on his disabled friend and the difficulties it brought to their life. Why model a human-like creature if it does not have an aspect of humanity at all? Which rendered the team's last argument moot, the machine doesn't draw a picture like a human would, it draws a picture like a machine's perception of what a human would.

Also, was that Iguchi Yuka on narration?

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Watched this somewhere before, if I remember correctly the team that presented the AI model animation worked on this secretly without Miyazaki knowing and wanted to see his opinion on it.

Ah ok, that makes sense. He seems genuinely surprised that they were spending their time working on this.

It's just my own interpretation here also I'm bad at conveying words, the AI is presenting a model of what seems to be a human-like creature, I think Miyazaki was disappointed since if there is a human who looked like that they should not move like what the AI depicted in the animation, thus his comment on his disabled friend and the difficulties it brought to their life. Why model a human-like creature if it does not have an aspect of humanity at all? Which rendered the team's last argument moot, the machine doesn't draw a picture like a human would, it draws a picture like a machine's perception of what a human would.

I think it was more like he was angry at them wasting the company's money/time working on a project he sees no value in. I also think that the developers made a mistake of pitching this tech to upper management before it was fully baked. It looks sloppy and unnatural and I'm not sure that was their intention or if it was their way of salvaging their project.

 

[diapered]

It may seem like a non sequitur

Thanks for the elaboration, and that does shed some light, but I still don't know why he felt the need to "turn the screws" on this team so hard during a meeting, but @Prism_Red helped us out on that. Since it was in "secret" I can see him being pretty pissed off at this direction.

"Here's something better than a human could make,"

Unless the subtitles are wrong, I don't think they claimed that. They said "draw pictures like humans do". I'm not a fan of AI art, but I consider it lets people make art that otherwise could not. Take Miyazaki's acquaintance that he brings up. It sounds like this individual may not be able to hold a pencil, but maybe they want to make art and are able to use a keyboard or some assisted device to learn to train an ai to make pictures, despite not being physically able to manipulate "conventional" artistic tools. I think that is wonderful ^_^

I think it was more like he was angry at them wasting the company's money/time working on a project he sees no value in. I also think that the developers made a mistake of pitching this tech to upper management before it was fully baked. It looks sloppy and unnatural and I'm not sure that was their intention or if it was their way of salvaging their project.

Yes, this is starting to make more sense for Miyazaki's indignation. Hence why I thought it was hilarious trying to salvage it by pitching it as a zombie game to fucking Miyazaki And that is why I felt bad, sounds like they had been employed by ghibli, told what to do by some manager (that knew the meeting would be a disaster, and at no point tries to defend their work), and just got thrown under the bus, but they tried their best, I've been there

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Unless the subtitles are wrong, I don't think they claimed that. They said "draw pictures like humans do". I'm not a fan of AI art, but I consider it lets people make art that otherwise could not. Take Miyazaki's acquaintance that he brings up. It sounds like this individual may not be able to hold a pencil, but maybe they want to make art and are able to use a keyboard or some assisted device to learn to train an ai to make pictures, despite not being physically able to manipulate "conventional" artistic tools. I think that is wonderful ^_^

That's a generous reading of the implication of AI. If it was simply a tool to allow disabled people to make their own creations, it wouldn't be mining from people's IP protected creative work. The intention has always been to replace human creative labor. This technology is far too expensive to develop and to mantain so it desperately needs commercial applications. The irony is that by trying to replace human labor it will end up destroying itself as the AI machine cannot exist without more human creations to feed it. It can only repeat what we've already made ad-nauseam. I suppose that is enough for the mass market consumers, who have been trained to Consummeeee like zombies but commercial art and society will suffer because of this greedy self-defeating mindset, mark my words.

BTW there are tools to allow disabled people to make art. AI isn't about making art, it is about the computer doing all the work for the person. It has nothing to do with true art and creativity.

 

[UnDubious]

Why is everyone in this thread writing fanfiction about the people doing the AI presentation? They don't work for Ghibli, and they didn't develop this at Miyazaki's request. It says the name of the guy and "DWANGO, Japanese telecommunications and media company" right on the screen. They're a separate company doing a presentation for Ghibli. Companies shop products and technologies around to other companies all the time. I swear 80% of this forum doesn't read or watch anything they comment on.

It also doesn't matter that some guy's feelings are hurt if what he's doing is wrong, which Miyazaki strongly believes. That man will get over it. "This isn't for us" isn't Miyazaki's message, his message is that this is a mistake and a destructive path to take. And he's right about otaku, their lack of life experience is killing the medium as they just copy from copies until there's nothing left. It's not just women that aren't well represented, the guys are a bunch of goofy archetypes too 90% of the time.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Why is everyone in this thread writing fanfiction about the people doing the AI presentation? They don't work for Ghibli, and they didn't develop this at Miyazaki's request. It says the name of the guy and "DWANGO, Japanese telecommunications and media company" right on the screen. They're a separate company doing a presentation for Ghibli. Companies shop products and technologies around to other companies all the time. I swear 80% of this forum doesn't read or watch anything they comment on.

I don't know where you read that but it certainly wasn't in the description of the video or in the small snippet I posted.

It also doesn't matter that some guy's feelings are hurt if what he's doing is wrong, which Miyazaki strongly believes. That man will get over it. "This isn't for us" isn't Miyazaki's message, his message is that this is a mistake and a destructive path to take. And he's right about otaku, their lack of life experience is killing the medium as they just copy from copies until there's nothing left. It's not just women that aren't well represented, the guys are a bunch of goofy archetypes too 90% of the time.

I agree with this. Some people think that grown adults are so soft to not be able to handle harsh words in a corporate meeting. Like I said before, this is pretty mild and I've seen worse dressdowns in the business world.

 

[UnDubious]

I don't know where you read that but it certainly wasn't in the description of the video or in the small snippet I posted.

It's in the video you posted, lol. Top of the screen right from the start. Maybe y'all didn't see it cause the youtube video title goes over it in windowed mode. In fullscreen it's easy to see.

As for the second point, we are fragilizing ourselves as a whole these past few years. Trauma is a real thing but not everything is some soul-shattering trauma and we would have never survived as a species if we were as fragile as some people pretend.

 

[happymasksalesman happymasksalesman]

Hayao Miyazaki, who make my favorite animes! I really like his works. In fact I want to make such thread. I want to find all his works In Japanese dub. I already find laputa castle in sky:

Laputa Subtitled : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Laputa Subtitled

archive.org

If you have others send them here(please I really want all the collections! Or maybe not i think i find them right now!)actually laputa,ponyo and when wind rising, animes I really like(i have a dub cd of my neighbor totoro). In fact I can see them anytime!
They are so great and I can see them with a great dub! I love his works and his works are so popular and known in my country. I see princess monoko and it was really crazy!
The grave of butterflies is so sad and I always watch it again and again! I sure it will play every year!

Post automatically merged: Apr 19, 2025

Oh I forget in Japanese dub,if you are a fan of Conan detective, you gonna get shoked I sent spoil it!

Spoiler: Shoke

the conan is patzu and haibara is shita!

 

[Deleted member 884]

You can tell they've never interacted with real women by the archetypes they portray in Anime. Yandere/Tsundere, etc... they are all tired tropes by now. Real women do not behave like this.

What's wrong with this? Anime girls act like many boys and men really like, including myself.
They show them in a different way because it's a different world, it doesn't have to be realistic.

 

[fake-chan]

Why do people care so much what some washed-up animator thinks?

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

What's wrong with this? Anime girls act like many boys and men really like, including myself.
They show them in a different way because it's a different world, it doesn't have to be realistic.

Its tiresome, friend. Why do we have to watch the same shit over and over and over and over for the past 30 years?

C'mon fam, eat your anime slop made by AI. Same old tropes as usual, yandere/tsundere. etc...
BTW the critique isn't specifically for female characters. Male characters can be equally lazy.

 

[fake-chan]

Its tiresome, friend. Why do we have to watch the same shit over and over and over and over for the past 30 years?

Then don't. Nobody's forcing you.

 

[UnDubious]

What's wrong with this? Anime girls act like many boys and men really like, including myself.
They show them in a different way because it's a different world, it doesn't have to be realistic.

Real people are more nuanced and interesting than character archetypes, and stories in which you can recognize human nature in the characters and their actions (and the plot by extension) are usually just more meaningful, affecting, effective, etc.
You can write stories full of archetypes and tropes if you want, and some writers are creative enough to put interesting twists on them. But they tend not to be the masterpieces that stick with you or mean more to you than just cheap escapism.

EDIT - One of the reasons Ashita no Joe blew my mind is because it's not all just clichés. It's anime, but I can believe in its world and people and it moved me rather than just entertain me. If Joe was just a plucky shonen hero and that one rich girl was a tsundere with a comically large hammer the show would suck incredibly hard.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Why do people care so much what some washed-up animator thinks?

Post automatically merged: Apr 19, 2025

Then don't. Nobody's forcing you.

I don't. I haven't watched new anime for the past decade. I got a Crunchy roll subscription during Covid but I spent the time watching old Anime from the 90-2000s. There's a reason for that.

 

[UnDubious]

Why do people care so much what some washed-up animator thinks?

The anime you like is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the things Miyazaki and his peers (Tomino, etc.) from the early anime days created throughout their careers. They aspire to be in his league. He's also incredibly successful and has had massive hit after massive hit for decades. His latest movie came out in 2023 and became the 5th highest-grossing Japanese movie of all time with no promotion. He's far from washed-up, he's objectively a GOAT of the medium.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

The anime you like is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the things Miyazaki and his peers (Tomino, etc.) from the early anime days created throughout their careers.

If having a 40 year old career of excellent quality hand drawn animated movies with uplifting messages is what makes someone "washed-up", we should all aspire to be that washed up in our professional careers.