You know a game is soulless when...

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

What are the telltale signs that make you go like "Wow! This was made to please the investors and it shows".

As you all know, the original Deus Ex is my all-time favorite game. Nothing has topped it in the 26 years following its original release and it's starting to be clear that nothing ever will, that its place will never be usurped. It really is that good.

But when a sequel was announced, I was excited -- and properly so. How could they make an already great game even better? I was already getting skeptical when they made it an Xbox game first and foremost, but then I recalled the original game being super demanding for computers at the time, so I figured this was them trying to reach a bigger audience. Cool.

And then, they dropped the title: Invisible War.

The Grey Death from the original game could have used that subtitle because it spreaded silently, but nothing about the actual game world was particularly invisible: the NFS, Silhouette, UNATCO, Majestic 12 and many other factions operated out in the open, usually with fireworks, so it wouldn't have worked as a bigger concept. And because this here sequel made a huge deal out of using nanotechnology, like a jacked up version of the original's take on augmentation, I was willing to hear it out.

It was shaping up to be a shaky ride, but not a bad one...

... Until the goddamn opening cinematic (!) showed the largest terrorist attack in history, completely undermining the title.

That wrecked me the first time I saw it, even if I couldn't completely understand why it wasn't clicking.

Oh! They also recycled key voice actors from the original and gave them new roles, so it's a double assault on your sanity... But it's almost pointless to bring that up because a sequel to one of the smartest, most intelligent games ever written couldn't survive its own opening scene.

Wow.

What about you? What examples can you add?

 

[Zerohour2k12]

Man, it is kinda hard to define the line between simplicity and soulessness when there are a ton of games that looks and plays low-effort but are overall good. That said. What comes to mind is The Baki Hanma game that's just a re-skin of Thunder Ray by the same devs.

 

[JellyjamLu]

When they focus too much on the fancy tech but the gameplay, open world takes a hit into what feels like linearity or open ended nothingness, loss of innovation so copy another popular IP, like a souls-like for example, been a ton of those.
Pump out same thing annually if possible for the bucks.

Random example: Ass Creed

 

[RageBurner]

Sequels can have this "made by comitee" feel to them when things are rushed out of the door or when teams suddenly change. The premier example I can think of is Mega Man X5 and X6.

While the moving parts are there, there's not enough care given to balance and moment to moment gameplay. X4 is not perfect, but the PS1 sequels are several steps below what came before.

Shout-out tthe PS2 Arc the Lad sequels.

 

[Tonberry]

A sequel that is created purely because the previous entry sold well.
I know I'm a broken record at this point (sorry again Kamako ) but Dark Souls 3 is still my go-to answer.
It's the most safe, derivative, uncreative game From Software ever made. It's such an overcorrective bland bunch of nothing after 2 was divisive that all it amounts to is just being a hollow copy of Dark Souls 1, but worse in just about every regard aside from maybe graphical fidelity, and (overall) quality of boss fights.

More like Dark Soulless

A maybe slightly more interesting answer from me would be Mario Galaxy 2. It's an absolutely excellent game, and probably better in most regards, but it simply suffers from not being the first entry, so some of that grand slam entry power was obviously absent, which made it feel kind of more like just a "product".

 

[RageBurner]

I know I'm a broken record at this point (sorry again Kamako ) but Dark Souls 3 is still my go-to answer.
It's the most safe, derivative, uncreative game From Software ever made. It's such an overcorrective bland bunch of nothing after 2 was divisive that all it amounts to is just being a hollow copy of Dark Souls 1, but worse in just about every regard aside from maybe graphical fidelity.

More like Dark Soulless

I guess they really wanted to make sure it sold widely rather to a niche within a niche of borderline masochistic players, haha.

 

[Tonberry]

I guess they really wanted to make sure it sold widely rather to a niche within a niche of borderline masochistic players, haha.

Yeah, probably!
I don't lament its existence (I'm not crazy enough to think that I'm the authority on whether these sequels have a right to exist or not ofc), I even enjoyed it when it was brand new, but it's for sure the one I feel the least desire to ever revisit.

I used to argue with people online that Bloodborne didn't require a sequel just because it was such a good contained experience. I mean, I got my wish, but now it's stranded on the PS4 instead..

 

[RageBurner]

Yeah, probably!
I don't lament its existence (I'm not crazy enough to think that I'm the authority on whether these sequels have a right to exist or not ofc), I even enjoyed it when it was brand new, but it's for sure the one I feel the least desire to ever revisit.

I used to argue with people online that Bloodborne didn't require a sequel just because it was such a good contained experience. I mean, I got my wish, but now it's stranded on the PS4 instead..

Over time I lost my drive to want to rewrite history too. I suppose nothing will ever be universally liked and that's fine, As for Bloodborne, yes, its absolutely time for it to break free.

 

[dropsmegamega]

Copypasted fetch quests in which all you do is follow the quest compass, copypasted random enemy placement, copypasted areas, copypasted game...

 

[Morgan Katarn]

I seen that soo many many times games made to please investors or made to please idiots with to much loud scraming and yet they don´t play does games.

Code violet made to please no one but the devs them self, a supposed spiritual successor to dino criss but just so utterly bad and broken honestly I think Alien colonial marines was less broken.

Concord made to please inventors and people that hate video games.

Dragon age fail guard made to please devs them self and loud mouth idiots not even the investors wanted that trash because they lost BIG on the game.

Assassin creed shadow made to please Ubisoft and investors and also show how it is okey to be racist towards asians and their culture.

Last of us II made to please Niel duckman ego on shitty writing.

Star wars Outlaw made to please Dinsey ? Or some one I don´t know who asked for it.

Skull and bones made to please the ego of the idiot calling it the first ever AAAA game.

Honestly the list goes on but I learned most games today are made to please people that hate video games because im sure Investors are not happy to lose billions.

So I would say soulless games today are made to please devs and people that hate videos games and not investors because investors hate losing money.

And I will tell you Ubisofts investors are MIGHTY pissed after several failures.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I'm not sure. I think of examples from the Yakuza games:

New game + was locked behind a paid DLC pack for Yakuza 8, when it had been a staple feature of the series up until that point, only requiring you to finish the story once to unlock it.

Or them releasing a "Director's Cut" version of Yakuza 0 with a tacked on multiplayer mode to justify charging full price for it again, when these games have always had a single-player focus.

I think it just comes down to marketing and how companies want significantly more money for significantly less effort. I remember taking this screenshot on my PS5 before the Silent Hill 2 remake came out:

It just stuck out that the tagline wasn't hyping up the game itself. It wasn't saying something like "A survival horror classic remade" or whatever. It was telling you to check out all the pre-order incentives, and that really makes a game feel soulless.

 

[JellyjamLu]

Totally get the above post but Silent Hill 2 R is a very good alternate version to play that can sit next to the original, just like RE2 to RE2R when the mood suits.

 

[Bakuma1997]

This artstyle, i se it and i can't avoid seeing it as AI filtered

 

[LiberoVulpesLiberoVulpes's icon]

- Unreal Engine 5.
- "Deluxe Edition" "Collector's Package" etc.
- DLC that clearly was taken out from the main game and sold separately.
- "Realistic graphics" as an excuse for no actual artstyle nor art direction.
- Asset Swap.

 

[BrawlMan]

I do feel the term soulless has been overused by grifters on youtube. So I try not to use that term much.

Totally get the above post but Silent Hill 2 R is a very good alternate version to play that can sit next to the original, just like RE2 to RE2R when the mood suits.

Thank you. There is nothing soulless about these specific remakes. I noticed when people used that term on great remakes, they're either upset that the remake did well, or they wanted it to fill for whatever dumb and arbitrary reason. I still don't like Konami, but at least they're outsourcing to people who care about making good games. Konami news, they screwed up in the gambling market, so they had no choice but to crawl back to video games.

Because Bloober's success with Silent Hill 2 Remake, we got Cronos. An awesome survival horror game. They're also working on SH1 Remake and I couldn't be any happier. Yahtzee can fuck off on his feelings on the recent remakes, and his 'good luck' video message to Bloober. They will do great Yahtzee, but you're just gonna complain like baby no matter what happens.

Back on topic: a lot of AAA games from 7th and 8th generation felt like his to me. By that, I mean the many games (not all, obviously) that were just shallowy copying either Gears/COD, or GTA/FC/open-world games in general. The 'live services', loot boxes, and now gachas. The seventh generation, I especially have a bone to pick with when it came to these. All that talk from the gaming press. In publishers themselves, but most of these games are stuck on the era and consoles they debuted on, and aren't not worth the paper nor play through again. Most weren't even good the first time around. Cover shooters are dead as a whole, yet all the other genres that were claimed or forced to be dead are thriving on multiple platforms. Especially from the indie and AA game makers.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

Totally get the above post but Silent Hill 2 R is a very good alternate version to play that can sit next to the original, just like RE2 to RE2R when the mood suits.

I feel like I should clarify that I wasn't commenting on Silent Hill 2 Remake as a game. I haven't actually played it and I've heard good things about it. I was just using its marketing as an example to show how I think that marketing and pre-orders and digital deluxe editions and DLC etc, kinda devalue games as a whole :)

 

[JellyjamLu]

I feel like I should clarify that I wasn't commenting on Silent Hill 2 Remake as a game. I haven't actually played it and I've heard good things about it. I was just using its marketing as an example to show how I think that marketing and pre-orders and digital deluxe editions and DLC etc, kinda devalue games as a whole :)

It's all good, I got where you were coming from, it's more so the consensus surrounding SH2R, which is very misinformed. thanks internet.

 

[Bonkers225]

MGSV
Resident Evil 6
Front Mission 4
Breath of Fire V
Bunch of Gundam games

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

Resident Evil 6

Came bundled with my PS3 and... Yes.

Very much so.

 

[RageBurner]

I think that marketing and pre-orders and digital deluxe editions and DLC etc, kinda devalue games as a whole :)

This. The boardroom mantra seems to be "Sell them less game, have them pay more."

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

This. The boardroom mantra seems to be "Sell them less game, have them pay more."

Dropping gems left and right, man.

I absolutely HATE the DLC format... Not only does it rip off paying costumers, but it handcuffs writers and developers by forcing them to make a less cohesive experience by design and when they have the tools to do better.

 

[RageBurner]

Dropping gems left and right, man.

I absolutely HATE the DLC format... Not only does it rip off paying costumers, but it handcuffs writers and developers by forcing them to make a less cohesive experience by design and when they have the tools to do better.

The only format I feel has some justification for gradual content introduction are fighting games, because balancing for competitive play takes years of sustained development post launch.

 

[NotReallyHere]

Lots of good responses, here! Where to start...

On the topic of sequels that are very good, but suffer from simply not being the first game in the series, I have to go with Metroid Prime 2. Knowing its backstory of how much it was rushed, how brutal the crunch was, and how standoffish the development team had become in the wake of the first game's success, it's a minor miracle that the game was even any good to begin with! But I loved the darker atmosphere, which leant a real feeling of suffocating weight and hopelessness to the gameplay. I've always considered that to be a cornerstone of the larger Metroid experience.

Heck, I even give them props for trying something new with the multiplayer, flawed as it was! And I loved that the game incorporated elements which were missing from the original Prime, such as the Screw Attack and escape sequence at the end. Not so big on Dark Samus (oh, no - another evil twin!) and also disappointed with the series naming convention that has endured to this day. In my mind, the game should have simply been called Metroid Echoes, followed by Metroid Corruption and Metroid Beyond. But, no, Nintendo always has to make sure you know that the Prime series is its own sort of spinoff thing, not to be confused with their beloved mainline Metroid entires. Or something... >_>

In regards to Mega Man, as a lifelong fan of the Blue Bomber... you kind of know what you're getting into with the sequels. They all feel a little cookie-cutter after a while. X5 and X6 were mentioned in comparison to X4, but I think the same could largely be said for X2 and X3, compared to the original X. Still excellent 2D action games, but just not quite as good as the first one to grace the new hardware.

As far as my own mention of a "soulless" game, that would be Wing Commander Prophecy. Oh, dear...

I was such a WC diehard, and had played through and beaten every game in the series up to that point. WC3 did a wonderful job of effectively ending the series, but then WC4 came along as a sort of epilogue chapter... which also ended up being damn good, with a wonderfully satisfying, series-ending conclusion of its own...? How could the series possibly continue??

Oh, that's right. Origin was bought out by EA, so of course they wanted a new WC game for their portfolio. And it was... OK. Just OK. I think the series creator had already departed at that point, and what was there just felt like a game that was going though the motions. Yes, it still had Biff Tannen, and good ol' Luke even showed up for a handwave, but something about the game just didn't click. It didn't only feel unnecessary - it also positively wasn't necessary.

It made that lampshaded moment in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back hit all that much harder

Also, no one's mentioned Devil May Cry 2 yet?? Good Grud, that game...

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

Dropping gems left and right, man.

I absolutely HATE the DLC format... Not only does it rip off paying costumers, but it handcuffs writers and developers by forcing them to make a less cohesive experience by design and when they have the tools to do better.

I don't mind so much when there's a DLC expansion that comes out well after the initial release. Like Shadows of the Erdtree for Elden Ring or Beyond the Dawn for Tales of Arise, but they feel so few and far between. Expansions that feel like they were designed independent of the base game.

It's a lot more common for DLC to be cut out of the base game though. In some cases they just straight up try to sell you something you can get later in the game anyway.

 

[CocaFeca]

I don't play a lot of bad or soulless games, i even give a lot of considered "bad videogames" a chance and end up enjoying them unironically, but there are two divisive games i would like to mention...

The Simpsons Game: this one hurts a bit because i played it a lot in my childhood, but coming back to it, it strikes me how such a soulless game could get at least a 6, good music and graphics don't save the bad gameplay, mediocre level design, nonsensical story and awful writing and jokes + the poorly Made cutscenes with a ton of errors, i gave it a chance on it's 18th anniversary and couldn't stand it, it hurts specifically because i played a lot with my family when i was little, but no matter the time, a bad product Is a bad product, i played the PS2 version and it's weird because despite the cuts it feels better to play than the ps3 versión, fells specialy weird now knowing that almost 20 years later the show didn't end or get better, and has been like this since al jean took the role as showrunner in 2003, and for some reason there's now people "nostalgic" for those awful and cynnical middle seasons, What's next? Nostalgia for spongebob seasons 5-8?.

Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2: i don't mind the first xenoverse because despite being a waste of time playing it nowadays (since xenoverse 2 got all it's content through dlc) at least it's a game that conocluded it's cycle and had potential for a sequel + it was better than Ultimate tenkaichi and battle of z (although none of the DBZ PS3 games are worth playing aside from burst limit) but then xenoverse 2 relesed almost a decade ago...

Instead of improving or changing the really flawed and kind of shit gameplay (you know, like Budokai 3, the other important dbz game released by dimps at the time 12 years ago?) they instead decided to make a few tweaks and small improvements and call it a day.

the Story is fun and dosen't take itself seriously, but the Bardock twist is a waste of time and the ending feels unsatysfing, at least the 3d cutscenes are mostly good in the base game and in dlc (if only they've used ecco for the screams...) but the game plays like shit, the combos are non-existent (xxx + a + spamming ki blasts and the ocassional Kamehameha or rush attack here and there) and you win, that's pretty much the whole gameplay, the System they Made it's decent but it's Easy to Brake + the abusive amount of dlc + characters nobody asked for or unecessary transformations + hit or miss fanservice + live service elements + the amount of powerpoint-esque cutscenes + almost no classic dragon ball characters or elements + the god awful soundtrack + shitty graphics effects like the ki blast or the destruction in the environments + no super Saiyan 4 for the cac and i could go on, i played it pirated and still felt robbed, it's the Sonic forces of dragon ball games, or dare i say, Sonic forces Is the xenoverse of Sonic games, haven't tried revamp or any other mod really.

A soulless game Is for me when a game is made solely to get a Quick Buck without being even good, divisive games like tlou 2, sly 4 or kh3 still feel like there was passion or something to make the player happy (all the sequels mentioned have a really lookwarm Story but their gameplay and cutscenes are great) for me soulless Is when there is almost nothing going for it, dosen't have anything interesting or entertaining to tell, plays poorly, it's designed poorly and feels like a cash-in

That was my rant of today, hope you enjoyed reading.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 9:42 PM

I don't mind so much when there's a DLC expansion that comes out well after the initial release. Like Shadows of the Erdtree for Elden Ring or Beyond the Dawn for Tales of Arise, but they feel so few and far between. Expansions that feel like they were designed independent of the base game.

It's a lot more common for DLC to be cut out of the base game though. In some cases they just straight up try to sell you something you can get later in the game anyway.

I Inmediatly notice when a dlc Is apart and and when it's something that's locked on the bsse disc/download when seeing the size...