Worthless Predecessors: Games You Just can't come back to.

[DinoRexMax]

Pokemon Red & Blue became impossible to go back to after Yellow came about.

It improved way too many things, changed the (frankly laughable) sprite work for the better, and it appealed to fans of the anime, effectively bridging the gap with those introduced to the franchise by Ash's adventures.

And then, Fire Red and Leaf Green buried them so throughly, I don't see anyone ever going back to play those. Quite sad, really.

This bears repeating, but since GameFreak are money grubbing goblins, every Pokemon game conceptually has a reason to play it (if only for exclusive content and peripherals). Arguably, RBY should be considered impenetrable, due to the fact that FRLG becomes the new standard for transfer (Since, without extensive fiddling, you can't normally transfer GBC Pokemon to the GBA games, but the GBA games can go all the way to the 3DS and beyond). Although, the 3DS versions of all the GBC games were compatible with Pokemon Home (even gave all them their hidden abilities by default).

Not that any of this matters, since HGSS buries FRLG, and pretty much every other Pokemon game besides Colosseum, so there.

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:47 AM

The old Monster Hunter games are certainly a chore to play nowadays. But you ain't in the cool clique if you don't prefer them over the new ones. Some people really love eating soup with chopsticks just to feel superior, or gather 10 unique mushrooms to feel special.

Street Fighter 2 just doesn't do it for me now.

Paper Mario N64 is worthless when TYYD exists, that's the best I can think of.

There are, like, 30 versions of SF2, which ones are you blase on? Also, if you don't play PM64, how are you gonna be able to flex on Tuff n Puff?

But yeah, the chopsticks bit is apt af. It forms the entire basis of the Soulsbourne clique, despite the fact that they never played AC until Rubicon like they filthy posers they are. It's just one of those fundamental aspects of life, where no matter how much of whatever you are, there's always someone out there to humble you.

I almost guarantee there's someone out there who doesn't consder you a true MH fan unless you started with the original PS2 demo disc from, like, 2005.

 

[NOTthatHARD]

sigh, I know people are gonna hate me for this, but I can't go back to Resident Evil 4 and 5 thanks to the retarded aiming sistem, it feels slow, cumbersome, imprecise, clunky, like I'm controling a marionette with strings instead of a professional with years of combat training and the laser dot is so hard to see sometimes. I truly loved those games when I was younger, but after playing so many better shooters in the last 15 years(including RE7, 8, Remake 2, 3, 4) I simply can't pretend that RE4 and 5 are still fun for me.

 

[Bandini]

resident evil and fighting games in general

 

[LaserMoose]

To point to a specific game in general, Budokai Tenkaichi 1 has been largely made obsolete compared to BT2 and BT3. I can't think of an instance as to why someone would play BT1 over the others barring nostalgia for this particular version.

The later games had far larger rosters and key staple mechanics that defined the series, like being able to transform mid-match. The combat also became far more refined over time.

 

[DinoRexMax]

View attachment 136701
To point to a specific game in general, Budokai Tenkaichi 1 has been largely made obsolete compared to BT2 and BT3. I can't think of an instance as to why someone would play BT1 over the others barring nostalgia for this particular version.

The later games had far larger rosters and key staple mechanics that defined the series, like being able to transform mid-match. The combat also became far more refined over time.

Considering how the series has gone through multiple phases (ignoring how it's sort of a spinoff of regular Budokai) which would you argue is more obsolete or harder to come back to? The OG series (BT 1,2,3,TT1,TT2), the Raging Blast Duo, or Sparking Zero?

Ultimate isn't even mentioned because it's hands down the worst one by default, not just in the Tenkaichi series but among DBZ games at large.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:32 AM

sigh, I know people are gonna hate me for this, but I can't go back to Resident Evil 4 and 5 thanks to the retarded aiming sistem, it feels slow, cumbersome, imprecise, clunky, like I'm controling a marionette with strings instead of a professional with years of combat training and the laser dot is so hard to see sometimes. I truly loved those games when I was younger, but after playing so many better shooters in the last 15 years(including RE7, 8, Remake 2, 3, 4) I simply can't pretend that RE4 and 5 are still fun for me.

Cringe, but understandable. RE4 is one of the best games ever and still holds up, but that is in spite of it's pop 'n stop gameplay. There's literally no reason why we couldn't have moving and shooting at the same time, other than japan doesn't get shooters (even Golden Eye and Perfect Dark on the N64 could do it, and N64 remote was an abomination).

But if the aiming itself is an issue, you should try the RE4 HD version on PC, because mouse aiming is pure sex and I refuse to play anymore shooters on a controller. Probably on sale also.

 

[LaserMoose]

Considering how the series has gone through multiple phases (ignoring how it's sort of a spinoff of regular Budokai) which would you argue is more obsolete or harder to come back to? The OG series (BT 1,2,3,TT1,TT2), the Raging Blast Duo, or Sparking Zero?

Ultimate isn't even mentioned because it's hands down the worst one by default, not just in the Tenkaichi series but among DBZ games at large.

BT2 has a well-loved soundtrack and story mode, and BT3 has the largest roster and expanded combat mechanics. I believe there is only one Tag Team game, which is exclusive to PSP, making that an interesting release in its own right.

The RB games are different enough gameplay-wise to differentiate from the BT games, in particular due to additions like Raging Soul. Raging Blast 1 has a unique cell-shaded art style, and another traditional story mode covering the DB sagas. RB2 has better gameplay, but arguably RB1 had the better story mode compared to RB2's galaxy mode.

I can't comment on Sparking Zero, but I'd personally wager that for all of these releases, it's tough to say any one series is made entirely obsolete because of these differences. What I can say for sure is that BT1 appears to lack a great defining aspect like what these other games have, with the exception of its jankiness as the first game in its series.

 

[RageBurner]

It's important to understand where a franchise started, the steps it took and where it is now. Latest doesn't necessarily mean best in a lot of cases.

To give an example that hits close to home for me, it is difficult to go back to MHFU after playing MHP3rd for me, for example; they are very close, generationally speaking, but the amount of changes was substantial enough that it changed the game dynamic in ways that aren't obvious at first glance, but are, nevertheless, profound. I can play and enjoy P3rd and the entries that came later, but MHFU is as far back as I'm willing to go, and I know I'll have a bad time of it.

Still, worthless is too strong a word, I feel, and shouldn't be implied in the example I'm using.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Many video game with 2 as the better sequel. Ignoring remasters and remakes that retroactively add QoL improvements from their respective sequels back.

Borderlands was very nice for its epoch but BL2 added so many new things (the mini-map and the auto-money grab made everything better as well) that there's barely any reasons to play BL1 outside of its Enhanced release.

Sonic 1 in its original Genesis version simply because of the lack of a spin-dash, the air speed gap and the infamous Spike Bug. The Sonic Jam/Mobile Remaster/Origins versions are fixing most of them.

Megaman 2 improved massively in many ways that MM1 feels limited in comparison.

Pokémon Green, Red and Blue are nostalgic classics but they have many glitches and balance issues it's not funny. The game has been stitched with tape after all...

Spoiler: the problem with Gen 1

The original Phantasy Star Online Version 1 is basically obsolete thanks to Version 2 and the Gamecube/Xbox and Blue Burst ports which added more content.

In PSO Ver.1 you could basically do everything with the basic Humar class (yes, they had Reverser which revived people, a spell that is only available to magicians now), there were many glitches, no quick equip menu (R + the upper face button) and ultimately you had Level 100 as the ceiling and only three difficulty options. No Ultimate exclusive monsters, few Rare weapons and no Episodes 2 nor 4 so you're limited to 4 main levels (or 10 if you count each of the subsections).

Street Fighter 2 just doesn't do it for me now.

For the World Warriors? I 150% agree simply because after touching its subsequent versions (Champion Edition/Hyper Fighting and Super/Super Turbo) or even the next games like Alpha and III.

 

[DinoRexMax]

It's important to understand where a franchise started, the steps it took and where it is now. Latest doesn't necessarily mean best in a lot of cases.

Very true, you can't know where you're going if you don't know where you came from. Hence, why it begs the discussion at all.

But if latest doesn't mean greatest, the old doesn't always equal gold.

There's a reason why certain ideas become outdated and antiquated, and I can't tell you how it makes my blood boil when Igarashi has the unmitigated gall to continue proliferating his Castlevania knockback garbage into Bloodstained 2D like it's a fucking feature ("Pro" mode includes "Classic" knockback that just arbitrarily tosses you into a nearby pit at the slightest sneeze in CoTM 1&2, and by extension, all the Castlevania games).

It wasn't a good idea back then, and will continue to be a terrible idea until the Sun goes out and flash freezes the charred remains of Konami HQ at the end of all human civilization a trillion years from now.

 

[RageBurner]

Very true, you can't know where you're going if you don't know where you came from. Hence, why it begs the discussion at all.

But if latest doesn't mean greatest, the old doesn't always equal gold.

I agree, classic doesn't necessarily set the gold standard, and there is a lot of jank in everything classic. I guess it boils down to how much jank is tolerable by the individual in question. A RE diehard would scoff at the notion of something like RE4, and yet it was successful and advanced the formula; it's just not everyone will universally see it that way, and that's a good thing in my book.

 

[DinoRexMax]

Many video game with 2 as the better sequel. Ignoring remasters and remakes that retroactively add QoL improvements from their respective sequels back.

Borderlands was very nice for its epoch but BL2 added so many new things (the mini-map and the auto-money grab made everything better as well) that there's barely any reasons to play BL1 outside of its Enhanced release.

Sonic 1 in its original Genesis version simply because of the lack of a spin-dash, the air speed gap and the infamous Spike Bug. The Sonic Jam/Mobile Remaster/Origins versions are fixing most of them.

Megaman 2 improved massively in many ways that MM1 feels limited in comparison.

Pokémon Green, Red and Blue are nostalgic classics but they have many glitches and balance issues it's not funny. The game has been stitched with tape after all...

• Very true, but quite a broad statement to make. Though, I'd be displaying a double digit IQ for splitting hairs over simple generalities
• "A nice game for it's epoch". How studious, I feel like we should all be huffing pipes in a smokehouse like British scholars with that talk. Shame about Gearbox however, perhaps a less "greasy" developer can make successor that's not as slipshod as 4.
• Ugh, Sonic 1 is such a vacuous experience compared to even 2 or 3 (let alone SAB2 or Sonic Rush) that it's barely worth remembering aside from Green Hill Zone. Doesn't help that it was so conceptually early that they didn't really know what to do with the series at first, Marble Zone being a prime example of misunderstanding the need for speed factor that made Sonic standout to being with.
• My favourite example of Gen 1 being awful is Beedrill. Psychic types were so unfathomably strong with so many prime contenders (not even just Alakazam or Exeggcute, but the series first legendary was Psychic as well) but the only type that countered it was Bug. There is only 1 solitary bug type move in the entire RBY series, and that's Pin Missile. Pin Missile is learned by 2 Pokemon, Jolteon and Beedrill, and only one of them gets STAB off of it. So Beedrill is the ideal Psychic killer right? Well, what's the type Psychic is most advantageous against? POISON. What is Beedrill's subtype? POISON. BLECH. Thank god his Mega Form is half decent, gives the poor guy a smidge of justice after all that abuse...

Post automatically merged: Today at 8:07 AM

I agree, classic doesn't necessarily set the gold standard, and there is a lot of jank in everything classic. I guess it boils down to how much jank is tolerable by the individual in question. A RE diehard would scoff at the notion of something like RE4, and yet it was successful and advanced the formula; it's just not everyone will universally see it that way, and that's a good thing in my book.

I will go on record in saying I solemnly believe RE4 is legitimately one of the best games of all time (cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye etc.) but I'll be damned if it didn't risk overstaying it's welcome at some point. Almost every horror game in the past 15 years that wasn't trying to be Amnesia, tried to be RE4, and after the amazingly intricate love letter that was the original RE:make, the fact that Capcom not only skipped CVX to do RE4 AGAIN, but they did both RE2 and RE3 in that style is no bueno.

It's funny how that attitude really became so prevalent later on, since RE0, the Onimusha series, and RE: Outbreak File 1 & 2 all maintained tank controls during the RE4's inception, but as time went on it just set the standard for both 3rd person shooters and horror games that it flared up like small pox.

Dead Space gets a pass tho, until we reach Dead Space 3, then things get complicated...

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

It's important to understand where a franchise started, the steps it took and where it is now. Latest doesn't necessarily mean best in a lot of cases.

Yeah, as rough as the earlier instalment may be.

Shame about Gearbox however, perhaps a less "greasy" developer can make successor that's not as slipshod as 4.

I already felt that change in Borderlands 2 (which went further into the funny/crazy aspects of the first game) but the later two delved too far from its "space western" roots to the point I miss the more down to Earth (or down to Pandora) feel of the original with the Crimson Lance, Old Haven and many other lore bits.

Pandora is a wasteland nobody cared about and was mostly inhabited with bandits and madmen. Since they've discovered a Vault in it every big companies went to try their chance at finding another so the planet slowly became more crowded and has lost that "ghost town" feel.

In a weird way that's not too far from Fallout 1 feeling lonelier than its sequels.

Ugh, Sonic 1 is such a vacuous experience compared to even 2 or 3 (let alone SAB2 or Sonic Rush) that it's barely worth remembering aside from Green Hill Zone. Doesn't help that it was so conceptually early that they didn't really know what to do with the series at first, Marble Zone being a prime example of misunderstanding the need for speed factor that made Sonic standout to being with.

At least Sonic 1 Forever fixes most of the issues and playing as Tails or Knuckles adds a bit more to it.

Actually in an interview I need to find they said that Marble Zone was meant to give Sonic a slower paced level because they planned to alternate between faster and slower levels in the game. Sonic has been marketed around speed but was also made with momentum in mind rather than just speed. Spring Yard and Starlight were faster levels using Sonic's momentum while Labyrinth and Scrap Brain were more platform heavy.

I think Sonic Advance 2 went too far in the speed aspect at the cost of proper platforming (Rush was almost its own thing at that point).

My favourite example of Gen 1 being awful is Beedrill. Psychic types were so unfathomably strong with so many prime contenders (not even just Alakazam or Exeggcute, but the series first legendary was Psychic as well) but the only type that countered it was Bug. There is only 1 solitary bug type move in the entire RBY series, and that's Pin Missile. Pin Missile is learned by 2 Pokemon, Jolteon and Beedrill, and only one of them gets STAB off of it. So Beedrill is the ideal Psychic killer right? Well, what's the type Psychic is most advantageous against? POISON. What is Beedrill's subtype? POISON. BLECH. Thank god his Mega Form is half decent, gives the poor guy a smidge of justice after all that abuse...

I think Gen 1 has its charm but nobody should replay it beyond nostalgia when Gen 2 and the GBA remakes are making it more bearable.