Why is Banjo Kazooie considered better than the Spyro games?

[Mago]

3D collectathon platformers usually arent my favorite kind of games but Spyro is is big exception. I replayed them recently and they still hold up super well. The atmosphere, the level design, the music, and most importantly the controls are all top notch. My only real issue is they're too easy imo. Also yeah the first has poor boss fights and the third kinda gets a bit too gimmicky with mini games and new playable characters but overall an incredibly strong trilogy.

Meanwhile the games from what i've seen are considered inferior to Banjo Kazooie which is considered the pinnacle of 3D collectathon platformers but tbh I don't get it at all? I tried replaying Banjo again and I wanted to give it a fair shake but honestly I don't find it fun. It's charming but Banjo isn't very satisfying to control, especially compared to Spyro. Swimming and flying controls are especially clunky and unfun, and neither are most of the animal transformations. I feel like in a game where you are supposed to collect a bunch of things in a sandbox map of sorts feeling fun to control should be like the most important thing. This issue is even worse since you have to collect the all the notes in one go, so if you die you have to collect them all over again in a game where to beat it you have to collect the majority of the notes. Like I would naturally be happy its harder than spyro but it comes across more tedious than legitimately challenging.

I guess I could see why people might like the levels better but I feel like its harder to enjoy them regardless because of the controls. Also personally they feel more claustrophobic to me, but also just lack the atmosphere of Spyros levels to me. Also personally speaking I do think Spyro has better level design like just from the first game for example Dark Passage, Tree Tops, and Wizard Peak are excellent examples of 3D level design. In general I think while Banjo has whimsy, it really can't compete with Spyro in terms atmosphere and art direction. Also I think Spyro easily has better music (Stewart Copeland <3) and like I said Spyro is just way more fun to control. Like I just wanna understand better whatever it is i'm not understanding lol.

 

[MemeAlert]

Banjo Kazooie is just a solid 3d collectathon, even better than Super Mario 64. Banjo Kazooie is a game where it has good gameplay AND its charming. I don't get people who complained about losing Notes in Banjo Kazooie and this is the one instance where I'm gonna say to anyone if this bothers you, you're just being a baby.

 

[kelthuzadinho]

Spyro has a much closer camera on the character than Banjo. that alone makes the game immersion and platformer entirely different. also, Spyro does not have that delicious Mario 64 inspired movement and controls. if you fuse this two things (camera + controls) you have at you a much more immersive gameplay and world. at least for me. i had fun with both and particularly like Banjo more, not only for that, but for the setting as well. it's not as tight and transcedental as Mario 64, but a much more nice entry for collectathons in general

 

[bjork]

Banjo Kazooie is just a solid 3d collectathon, even better than Super Mario 64.

I'm with you on the first half of this, anyway.

Anyway for OP: my best guess is that it comes down to visibility. Banjo was like a huge deal at the time and the N64 was regularly slight on new big titles, while Spyro was a hit but it was a hit on the Playstation. Little fish in a big pond. I think they're all good, though. Just different from one another, which is good.

 

[Mago]

Banjo Kazooie is just a solid 3d collectathon, even better than Super Mario 64. Banjo Kazooie is a game where it has good gameplay AND its charming. I don't get people who complained about losing Notes in Banjo Kazooie and this is the one instance where I'm gonna say to anyone if this bothers you, you're just being a baby.

Banjo I think does a lot better than Mario 64, but i'd still rather play Mario 64 purely for the controls. I still have issues with Mario 64 but they're different than my issues with BK. I'd rank em Spyro > Mario 64 > Banjo

 

[MemeAlert]

Banjo I think does a lot better than Mario 64, but i'd still rather play Mario 64 purely for the controls. I still have issues with Mario 64 but they're different than my issues with BK. I'd rank em Spyro > Mario 64 > Banjo

I don't understand why you think Banjo Kazooie controls bad.

 

[Mago]

Spyro has a much closer camera on the character than Banjo. that alone makes the game immersion and platformer entirely different. also, Spyro does not have that delicious Mario 64 inspired movement and controls. if you fuse this two things (camera + controls) you have at you a much more immersive gameplay and world. at least for me. i had fun with both and particularly like Banjo more, not only for that, but for the setting as well. it's not as tight and transcedental as Mario 64, but a much more nice entry for collectathons in general

I actually forgot to mention it but I actually found Banjos camera more frustrating than Spyros. I'm also not sure what you mean by Mario 64 inspired movement and controls? I thought Mario 64 had way better controls, and the only similarity I can think of is you can ground pound in Banjo. Banjo is much more stiff than Mario or Spyro.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:23 PM

I'm with you on the first half of this, anyway.

Anyway for OP: my best guess is that it comes down to visibility. Banjo was like a huge deal at the time and the N64 was regularly slight on new big titles, while Spyro was a hit but it was a hit on the Playstation. Little fish in a big pond. I think they're all good, though. Just different from one another, which is good.

That's a fair point. Not even trying to shit on the system but N64 but it did have much fewer games than other big consoles, so I can see its classics getting an extra boost in hype because of that.

I don't understand why you think Banjo Kazooie controls bad.

He doesn't control bad except when swimming and flying, but even grounded hes just super exciting to control like Mario and Spyro. Hes just kinda servicable which could be fine but in a game about exploring and collecting things it means playing will become boring quicker.

 

[secreto7]

Like bjork said. And probably is due to Nintendo fans.

 

[Mago]

Like bjork said. And probably is due to Nintendo fans.

I didn't pay attention to the users name, and thought you meant the actual Bjork and was confused. lol

 

[kelthuzadinho]

I'm also not sure what you mean by Mario 64 inspired movement and controls?

when i play both games, i feel a sense of a common ground. it's not that the movement is the same, but for me it feels similar. how you turn around, press Z to center the camera or, just exploring the world. but yeah, Mario 64 has much better controls, that game is the pinnacle, Banjo is only inspired by. Spyro's camera work is different, they follow the character smoothly, contrary to Banjo's. because of that in BK i get the feeling of looking around more calmly, understanding the world and the level design. Spyro's design are more... ground-focused? the platforming is entirely different

 

[secreto7]

On internet I regularly see Nintendo fans as a majority or at least a very passionate and vocal group. So they tend to overwhelm game discussions.
And much of them I think are from USA.

 

[Mago]

when i play both games, i feel a sense of a common ground. it's not that the movement is the same, but for me it feels similar. how you turn around, press Z to center the camera or, just exploring the world. but yeah, Mario 64 has much better controls, that game is the pinnacle, Banjo is only inspired by. Spyro's camera work is different, they follow the character smoothly, contrary to Banjo's. because of that in BK i get the feeling of looking around more calmly, understanding the world and the level design. Spyro's design are more... ground-focused? the platforming is entirely different

Fair enough, and true the platforming is different which yeah probably makes it harder to directly compare them.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 6:33 PM

On internet I regularly see Nintendo fans as a majority or at least a very passionate and vocal group. So they tend to overwhelm game discussions.
And much of them I think are from USA.

Funnily enough I grew up a Nintendo fan though I still owned a ps1 and 2. As i've gotten older and went back i've gained a big apreciation for Sega as well. I think the NES is still my favorite console though.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

I say mostly Nintendo fans since they go hard and never go home. N64 also lacked a bit early on, on titles and Nintendo consoles again is just the place for platformers like how mid-late life the PS1 began to show off it's ability to handle longer titles that it became the place to set up shop as a RPG machine, and this continued on to the PS2 with even Spyro gaining RPG elements to it's reimagined series with A New Beginning.

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

I love both, but Nintendo bias is crazy work.

I personally give Spyro more credit considering the hardware they were working with. Banjo has the common N64 issue of reaching for the stars and then proceeding to never reach 20 FPS. At least in regards to Tooie. The first game is an awesome singular time that’s well worth celebrating! I just wish the series had ended there, in hindsight, because they never hit that balance ever again. That said, Spyro’s no better in that sense lmao. There’s fun to be had in Hero’s Tail and the Legend games are fun for what they are, but the series never gets back to its original peak, while also never having an inspiring enough direction to garner a large fanbase for a particular title.

But yeah. Banjo was on the system people bought to play collectathons on. I know a fair few Nintendo fans who would, in their words “love to play Spyro, but the PS1 games just aren’t on Nintendo, so I’ve never played them”.

 

[dropsmegamega]

Other than nintendo bias, Banjo also has really memorable characters so nostalgia hits harder. Both series had great entries though.

 

[Kremiso]

i like both but to me Banjo Kazooie is a better game, more complete and various;
note that i also prefer Spyro than Donkey Kong 64 instead

so this is my personal fave order
1 - Banjo Kazooie
2 - Spyro (yet from The Dragon on PS1)
3 - Donkey Kong 64

 

[Wariat]

i dont really like banjo kazooie or its sequel. i dont consider it a quality game.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:55 PM

its subpar even for its time.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:57 PM

" Spyro does not have that delicious Mario 64 inspired movement and controls."

because if it did it would just be. copycat or another one of those clones wouldnt it?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:00 PM

its kind like being between a rock and a hardspot no? do we mimick our rival or create something more original and new?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:02 PM

either way the mrio 64 rom hacks and its gme and banjo and all none of those play well it seems on emulation using third party controller analogs. i never found that one to truly mimick the n64 hardware feel. anyone else? so i really forgot how it truly felt boys and gals.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:11 PM

"when i play both games, i feel a sense of a common ground. it's not that the movement is the same, but for me it feels similar. how you turn around, press Z to center the camera or, just exploring the world. but yeah, Mario 64 has much better controls, that game is the pinnacle, Banjo is only inspired by. Spyro's camera work is different, they follow the character smoothly, contrary to Banjo's. because of that in BK i get the feeling of looking around more calmly, understanding the world and the level design. Spyro's design are more... ground-focused? the platforming is entirely different"

but you didnt say better or worse here like you did previously... you just said different... so which is better to you come on man up and say it.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 8:12 PM

"I love both, but Nintendo bias is crazy work."

remember nintendo fans will pay 80 dollars for mario kart.

 

[moonbits]

because it has Kazooie and you shit eggs, Spyro can't compete

 

[Wariat]

i think crash the series was the best platfomring in tht generaiton besides mario 64 because it was pure platforming not collect crap.

 

[kelthuzadinho]

i think crash the series was the best platfomring in tht generaiton besides mario 64 because it was pure platforming not collect crap.

with that being said i'm all in for Klonoa

 

[secreto7]

i think crash the series was the best platfomring in tht generaiton besides mario 64 because it was pure platforming not collect crap.

You have to break all those boxes and collect the gems, but yes it's more platform focused than the others that are more open world.

 

[Yousef]

It’s not “better” per se, difference comes down to how the two contrast and when they came out. Banjo was helping Mario establish trends and standards for the genre while Spyro came after all of that was mostly figured out, so all was left was to rework and streamline certain ideas, it’s a bit more simplified compared to banjo and movement is “smoother”.

I’ve never had a particular fondness for either, but had an easier time hopping back to banjo due to me knowing all the jiggies and notes by heart, so I feel I take less time to replay it while in Spyro, I don’t get that same sense and it can feel less purposeful at times.

This is mostly if we compare specific entries though because on a general basis, I like Spyro a bit more.

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

I personally like the much more involved gameplay on Banjo-Kazooie better.

The game is always having you do something different, testing just how well you can manage your arsenal of learned techniques and also the transformations you get along the way. It's a game that's so challenging and rewarding that you just don't wanna give up while playing through its extremely colorful and vibrant worlds, both as a kid just learning it for the first time and as an adult revisiting a cherished childhood memory.

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

Never seen anyone say that, but if I had to guess it’s probably because time has been way more friendly to the reputation of Banjo Kazooie than it was to Spyro. A lot of conversations about video game history are still predominantly Nintendo, leading to information like how the Sega Saturn succeeded in Japan or the PC Engine winning against both SEGA and Nintendo to not be common knowledge unless you’re die hard. Hell, it took a while for people to catch on that the video game crash only happened in North America.

 

[kelthuzadinho]

It’s not “better” per se, difference comes down to how the two contrast and when they came out. Banjo was helping Mario establish trends and standards for the genre while Spyro came after all of that was mostly figured out, so all was left was to rework and streamline certain ideas, it’s a bit more simplified compared to banjo and movement is “smoother”.

basically this. normally people (myself included) consider as top criteria to determine what game is "best" than others for it's historical influence, impact and relevance to the gaming world in general. trying to argue either Spyro or Banjo are better based on game design does not make much sense, since they are not only completely different in a design perspective, but completely different as historical products of their time. Mario 64 and Banjo walked so others could (try to) run