Who here believes the Pokemon War theory?

[Segadude113]

I think there's some credence to it considering all the evidence in earlier gens.

 

[Repoaccount1]

It's pretty cool either way

 

[Anoobis]

Surge was pretty explicit that a war happened recently. The Johto theory has no more disproof than any other region in the series.

 

[Cardboardtubeknight Cardboardtubeknight]

Its true, I was there. I used my diglet for convert special operations involving him going up into the enemies nether regions. He evolved while in a dude and it the event was deemed too violent so we were dishonorably discharged

 

[bjork]

I don't but I also don't know what it is

 

[Segadude113]

I don't but I also don't know what it is

there's theories of a war that wiped out most of the adults before gen 1.

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[jon2]

I learned something new today

Thanks!!!

My take: VERY PLAUSIBLE

G Gundam also had that take: too much war, let's send representatives to fight for us via single combat (like David and Goliath; see Tom Wolfe's The Right Stuff for an exposition on the matter). While G Gundam's single combat meant Gundam Fight, Pokemon might had got Pokemon Battling

 

[RageBurner]

It's not a theory, it's called Pokémon Conquest.

 

[Questless Knight]

Fan theories is just what they are theories from people with to much free time on their hand. If it´s not officially confirmed then it´s just crazy talk.

 

[Segadude113]

Fan theories is just what they are theories from people with to much free time on their hand. If it´s not officially confirmed then it´s just crazy talk.

and with how sanitized Pokemon has become over the decades, how do you know what is merely fan theory and what is the truth?

 

[Questless Knight]

and with how sanitized Pokemon has become over the decades, how do you know what is merely fan theory and what is the truth?

Well I never heard Gamefreak or Nintendo confirm it so. If they officially not said jack then it´s just fan theory as always and fans love to take a simple story and make it so damn dark one start to question their sanity. Like how people love to turn a kids show in to nah it so deep that the charter in the show is in coma and everything we see is just a coma dream. Like it´s a fracking kids show why do you all need to feel to make it super dark.


But if you can show me where Gamefreak or Nintendo confirmed this is lore then I believe ya.

 

[RageBurner]

and with how sanitized Pokemon has become over the decades, how do you know what is merely fan theory and what is the truth?

The sanitization part is really sad. Gen 1 had actual hints of a food web forming, something you could reasonably relate to the real world (like Pidgeys eating Caterpies), but they removed those things going forward and the result is a bland, fake kind of world building without anything interesting in it.

 

[Segadude113]

The sanitization part is really sad. Gen 1 had actual hints of a food web forming, something you could reasonably relate to the real world (like Pidgeys eating Caterpies), but they removed those things going forward and the result is a bland, fake kind of world building without anything interesting in it.

or Ekans eating Pidgey eggs.

 

[Yousef]

It’s as believable as the ash coma theory in the sense that it’s more food for thought than anything else

 

[Dany28]

Yes Pokemon is really a mystery.

 

[RageBurner]

Yes Pokemon is really a mystery.

A mystery dungeon!

 

[030079AR]

i'm not too deep to pokemon lore.
but yeah, it will comes to dark story territory if it's official.
but, again, it's japan. playing lot of their games reminds me one quirky thing, they doesn't care about cuteness. if they want, they will make cute looking games, and having dark story combined, they will just say we want it : ))

 

[BigTony]

Like Professor Oak famously said "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Pokémon"

 

[Dany28]

A mystery dungeon!

Yes you say it.

 

[Ezri_Muldoon]

The great Pokémon war did happen, but by the 2nd gen all references to it just stopped.
Which is way more respectful than retconning away previous dialogue.
The pokemon company just let it become obscured by the sand of time.

Yet the weapons used in war still persist throughout the franchise.

Pokemon runs off a very much idealised armed police/citizens society where people look after themselves.
"An armed society is a polite society" environment. Pesimists would call it Mutually assured destruction.

Plus, have you SEEN Pokemon. Without tools humanity would have been eaten alive as we descended from the tree's lol Our intelligence and ability to make tools is our Pokemon power.
If any setting justified every one having a weapon it's the one where field mice cast lightning.

Any attempts to build a new standing arms would be crushed by civil, Pokemon attack fuelled resistance.
It's why Pokémon seems to operate on more of a city state level rather that any true nations being depicted, there's no need for a federal one world government.
Someone clearly tried that and it went so poorly the old nations collapsed in such a world altering event the Pokemon War isn't even discussed beyond it's acknowledgement as the bedrock of the world.
What existed before it? How it started? Not important. It was the failed old world.
The fantasy trope of the ancient war setting the status quo? Alive & well in gen 1 & the anime.
It's just less 1000+ years ago and more likely 50-100 years ago.

(Also Japan has a very hard time detaching itself from WW2, so all media no matter how child friendly will eventually reference a past "war" because 98% of anime is a reflection of their society. Old war vets included)

I find it much more interesting to look into the sheer volume of James Bond level villains the series has.

The war may have disarmed most of the worlds governments, but it left a power vacuum for Teams to inhabit.

Their secret experimental laboratories:

And their literal evil lairs & flying fortresses:

There's a espionage filled side story to be made about a group of Pokémon trainers keeping the peace behind the scenes.

 

[qw90700]

First of all I'll start by saying Pokemon anime and its game adaptation is not canon so we can safely completly ignore what we learn from them. So we learned a lot about the Pokemon universes (yes the series doesn't take place in one universe) but I'll limit what we learned only regarding this fan theory:

Spoiler: What we learned in the games?

1- So it is said that in ancient times pokemons and humans lived as equals so much pokemons lived like humans and they were married to humans. However Arceus was not ignored of humanity's existence and it's impolied that Arceus didn't like the way how humans and pokemons live as equals as if Arceus had concerns that if humans and pokemons had lived like this their very nature would be destroyed so Arceus wanted to seperate them so it intentionally wanted to improve humanity therefore most importantly Arceus also created "lake guardians" pokemons called Uxie (knowledge), Mesprit (emotion), and Azelf (willpower) so humanity could have these qualities. This is hard to explain but it does seem these Pokemons have "energies" that directly fine tuned to effect very existence of humanity so humans can think, learn and have emotions to make them different from pokemons. It is implied that Arceus had to do it so humans can exist as humans and pokemons can exist as pokemon as if there was no other way and to make humans truly equal to pokemons by giving humans pokemon qualities. We also learn that Arceus had a problem with pokemons wanting to be like humans and humans and pokemons marrying to each other but Arceus has no problem humans capture pokemons and use them for battle. So it seem Arceus only care about harmony of existence so things can exist, it has no moral dilemma over what happens. So Arceus sees it is the best way for human and pokemon existence.

So what we learned in Black series?:

1- Unova region has its own creation story that a powerful dragon-type pokemon created Unova region that is considered as "the original dragon". This dragon was partner of a twin heroes who found the Unova region but one day these twin heroes had a difference in POV over ideals or truth therefore they were separated, but the dragon didn't want to choose one of the hero over the other so the dragon was split into two as Reshiram the white fire type dragon pokemon who sided with the hero who supports the "truth", and Zekrom the black electric type dragon pokemon who sided with the hero who supports "ideals".

But the dragon pokemon splitting into two caused a left over rubbish as byproduct that did beget another dragon type pokemon called Kyurem that's an ice-type. This dragon pokemon poetically represents the desire of the dragon pokemon for twins to be whole again so it can be whole again too. Whole story's purpose is to tell how pokemons tend to side with humans for they love humans that much.

2- Pokemon Black series is important on understanding Pokemons better. We learn Pokemons indeed like to battle, the pokeball rejection of trainers can mean pokemon does not respect the trainer for some reason or it thinks this trainer cannot make the pokemon stronger. However often pokemons who think living with trainers would be better than wild life, and trainers are a good way to get stronger. Such predator behavior of pokemons make them respect their trainers and have a protective feeling over them, and thus they can respect pokemons that's stronger than them which only fuels their feeling to wanna be the best like no one ever was ♫ ♪duun duun duu♫ ♪ lol!!! However we also learn that pokemons are not blind slaves, when their trainers suck as making them stronger or they suck at treating them decent some pokemons develop hate over humans so they may don't wanna battle for a human ever again or not at all. However some pokemons are not interested in battle but they often do to survive or their trainer forced them for it.

What we learn after Black series?

1- We learn 3000 years ago there was a huge AF motherfucker war in Kalos region. The war already was the reason of countless death of humans and pokemons, and what the king called AZ to revive his beloved pokemon caused also another addendum to countless death of humans and pokemon so naturally it did end the war.

2- We learn parallel universes exist which we learn why some pokemon games "didn't make sense". I mean it made us sure than why there are different versions of pokemon games that slightly difference stuff happens duuuh. So we get not all games sets in same universe.

3- We learn there are wormholes that ultra beings come from another dimensions.

4- We became sure of the "Original Universe" timeline where mega evolution and ultra beasts didn't exist. It became more clear some games take place in their own timelines which does explain many things.

5- We learned that some time after humans start to be able to think, have emotions and have knowledge they lived a primitive life that they saw pokemons as a monsters. For this reason and to study pokemons so humans can like pokemons Professor Laventon created pokeballs.

6- We learned there are pokemons called "paradox pokemon" from different timelines!!! Also we learned time travel can be possible by human created devices!!! My TARDIS in a Pokemon game when? lol

So is fan theory like a pokemon war theory has any truth in it?:

1- I completely ignore translations of games and completely focus on the original Japanese information in the games.

We are "sure" that the character Lt. Surge "was a soldier" but we are not sure either lol. However it's not because what he say which in English translation it make it seem more like he talking about a war while in Japanese text this war history is indicated, or player can doubt he is just like to talk in military terms:

おい きみ！ しょうがない やつだ！ ぜんせん で は いつも こうして しょうぶに かっていた！ でんげき ポケモン が ぼく の いのち を すくって くれたん だ！

In this text the only indication of a war is "ぜんせん" for this word despite not written in kanji yet clearly about a term regarding wars that means "frontline". ぜんせん usually would written in kanji form as 前線 but this is a game for kids but most importantly this character is being foreign so not good at Japanese so they intentionally didn't write in kanji. For example another words about this word written as "前線部隊" which means "frontline troops" that start with the word "zensen". So without doubt this character specifically says he fought in "frontlines" which indirectly indicates of a war or a conflict, not really necessary a war. A soldier may be deployed to battle that is not a war. A conflict that could turn into a war but ends without it turn into a war. Or he faught in some other country's war for having peacekeeper purposes. It could be even against terrorist.

When I played the game for the first time I didn't think this guy is really a soldier, he seem like one of those guys who like to act like a soldier despite they were never a soldier but love such stuff.

2- In English version his name is Lt. Surge while in Japanese it's very different, it's マチス that we can translate it as "Machisu". He is also described as "イナズマ アメリカン" (Inuzuma Amerikan) which means "Lightning American". He is also described as "ライトニング タフガイ" (Raito Ningu Tafu Gai) which means "Lightning Tough Guy". So we learn he is American and he is like generic American stereotype of how they love military stuff despite he is not a soldier. We can also think even if he had specifically and clearly said he is in a war it would be a BS. Don't believe this guy lol. It seems NPCs around him either seriously believe he was a soldier or they play along. No evidence that he was a soldier, but just called so.

However in another game a NPC doubts if he is from Unova region which is the region from X/Y. It's not clear if in Pokemon "America" is a fictional world or "informal" name of Unova region. However there was no mention of any "war" in the planet that happened recently. There is no other NPC ever indicate there was a recent war at all. However considering what kind of world Pokemon games have if he was ever a soldier his battle was probably limited to terrorists.

But we know of past wars and how pokemons are used in wars that so many people and pokemons are killed. Which this aspect of Pokemon world is not a fan theory, this is literally what Pokemon X/Y is about.

However lack of men around is a nonsense idea to connect it to recent supposed war. We do see plenty non-old men around, however it is mostly indicated that men goes to work so they don't naturally stay at home or any places we can see them more than women or anyone who doesn't work around. We have to really focus on the fact that early Pokemon games suffered from heavy technical limitations. If there is no evidence for it cannot say shit that it is a fact.

And then when it comes to why player character lacking a father thoughout the series, who knows? It seems more like to give open blank info for your lore, and most importantly existence of family can cause hinderence and limitation of how a game's story can be therefore characters lacking parents or one of them is usual in JRPGs. To keep it simple better make your player have no family around or limit family members to few unless the game is about family theme.

However in Pokemon games "home" is starting point of the game as a fundamental pattern that is the reason why a mother even exist. Mother is also a basic NPC that can heal your Pokemon and give you stuff, introduce vital info about game and all but a father is not needed for a Pokemon game unless the game is about yet again a father or family in general.

So theory may be valid so it can be true, yet it's not based upon what we can even call evidence.

 

[Segadude113]

First of all I'll start by saying Pokemon anime and its game adaptation is not canon so we can safely completly ignore what we learn from them. So we learned a lot about the Pokemon universes (yes the series doesn't take place in one universe) but I'll limit what we learned only regarding this fan theory:

Spoiler: What we learned in the games?

1- So it is said that in ancient times pokemons and humans lived as equals so much pokemons lived like humans and they were married to humans. However Arceus was not ignored of humanity's existence and it's impolied that Arceus didn't like the way how humans and pokemons live as equals as if Arceus had concerns that if humans and pokemons had lived like this their very nature would be destroyed so Arceus wanted to seperate them so it intentionally wanted to improve humanity therefore most importantly Arceus also created "lake guardians" pokemons called Uxie (knowledge), Mesprit (emotion), and Azelf (willpower) so humanity could have these qualities. This is hard to explain but it does seem these Pokemons have "energies" that directly fine tuned to effect very existence of humanity so humans can think, learn and have emotions to make them different from pokemons. It is implied that Arceus had to do it so humans can exist as humans and pokemons can exist as pokemon as if there was no other way and to make humans truly equal to pokemons by giving humans pokemon qualities. We also learn that Arceus had a problem with pokemons wanting to be like humans and humans and pokemons marrying to each other but Arceus has no problem humans capture pokemons and use them for battle. So it seem Arceus only care about harmony of existence so things can exist, it has no moral dilemma over what happens. So Arceus sees it is the best way for human and pokemon existence.

So what we learned in Black series?:

1- Unova region has its own creation story that a powerful dragon-type pokemon created Unova region that is considered as "the original dragon". This dragon was partner of a twin heroes who found the Unova region but one day these twin heroes had a difference in POV over ideals or truth therefore they were separated, but the dragon didn't want to choose one of the hero over the other so the dragon was split into two as Reshiram the white fire type dragon pokemon who sided with the hero who supports the "truth", and Zekrom the black electric type dragon pokemon who sided with the hero who supports "ideals".

But the dragon pokemon splitting into two caused a left over rubbish as byproduct that did beget another dragon type pokemon called Kyurem that's an ice-type. This dragon pokemon poetically represents the desire of the dragon pokemon for twins to be whole again so it can be whole again too. Whole story's purpose is to tell how pokemons tend to side with humans for they love humans that much.

2- Pokemon Black series is important on understanding Pokemons better. We learn Pokemons indeed like to battle, the pokeball rejection of trainers can mean pokemon does not respect the trainer for some reason or it thinks this trainer cannot make the pokemon stronger. However often pokemons who think living with trainers would be better than wild life, and trainers are a good way to get stronger. Such predator behavior of pokemons make them respect their trainers and have a protective feeling over them, and thus they can respect pokemons that's stronger than them which only fuels their feeling to wanna be the best like no one ever was ♫ ♪duun duun duu♫ ♪ lol!!! However we also learn that pokemons are not blind slaves, when their trainers suck as making them stronger or they suck at treating them decent some pokemons develop hate over humans so they may don't wanna battle for a human ever again or not at all. However some pokemons are not interested in battle but they often do to survive or their trainer forced them for it.

What we learn after Black series?

1- We learn 3000 years ago there was a huge AF motherfucker war in Kalos region. The war already was the reason of countless death of humans and pokemons, and what the king called AZ to revive his beloved pokemon caused also another addendum to countless death of humans and pokemon so naturally it did end the war.

2- We learn parallel universes exist which we learn why some pokemon games "didn't make sense". I mean it made us sure than why there are different versions of pokemon games that slightly difference stuff happens duuuh. So we get not all games sets in same universe.

3- We learn there are wormholes that ultra beings come from another dimensions.

4- We became sure of the "Original Universe" timeline where mega evolution and ultra beasts didn't exist. It became more clear some games take place in their own timelines which does explain many things.

5- We learned that some time after humans start to be able to think, have emotions and have knowledge they lived a primitive life that they saw pokemons as a monsters. For this reason and to study pokemons so humans can like pokemons Professor Laventon created pokeballs.

6- We learned there are pokemons called "paradox pokemon" from different timelines!!! Also we learned time travel can be possible by human created devices!!! My TARDIS in a Pokemon game when? lol

So is fan theory like a pokemon war theory has any truth in it?:

1- I completely ignore translations of games and completely focus on the original Japanese information in the games.

We are "sure" that the character Lt. Surge "was a soldier" but we are not sure either lol. However it's not because what he say which in English translation it make it seem more like he talking about a war while in Japanese text this war history is indicated, or player can doubt he is just like to talk in military terms:

おい きみ！ しょうがない やつだ！ ぜんせん で は いつも こうして しょうぶに かっていた！ でんげき ポケモン が ぼく の いのち を すくって くれたん だ！

In this text the only indication of a war is "ぜんせん" for this word despite not written in kanji yet clearly about a term regarding wars that means "frontline". ぜんせん usually would written in kanji form as 前線 but this is a game for kids but most importantly this character is being foreign so not good at Japanese so they intentionally didn't write in kanji. For example another words about this word written as "前線部隊" which means "frontline troops" that start with the word "zensen". So without doubt this character specifically says he fought in "frontlines" which indirectly indicates of a war or a conflict, not really necessary a war. A soldier may be deployed to battle that is not a war. A conflict that could turn into a war but ends without it turn into a war. Or he faught in some other country's war for having peacekeeper purposes. It could be even against terrorist.

When I played the game for the first time I didn't think this guy is really a soldier, he seem like one of those guys who like to act like a soldier despite they were never a soldier but love such stuff.

2- In English version his name is Lt. Surge while in Japanese it's very different, it's マチス that we can translate it as "Machisu". He is also described as "イナズマ アメリカン" (Inuzuma Amerikan) which means "Lightning American". He is also described as "ライトニング タフガイ" (Raito Ningu Tafu Gai) which means "Lightning Tough Guy". So we learn he is American and he is like generic American stereotype of how they love military stuff despite he is not a soldier. We can also think even if he had specifically and clearly said he is in a war it would be a BS. Don't believe this guy lol. It seems NPCs around him either seriously believe he was a soldier or they play along. No evidence that he was a soldier, but just called so.

However in another game a NPC doubts if he is from Unova region which is the region from X/Y. It's not clear if in Pokemon "America" is a fictional world or "informal" name of Unova region. However there was no mention of any "war" in the planet that happened recently. There is no other NPC ever indicate there was a recent war at all. However considering what kind of world Pokemon games have if he was ever a soldier his battle was probably limited to terrorists.

But we know of past wars and how pokemons are used in wars that so many people and pokemons are killed. Which this aspect of Pokemon world is not a fan theory, this is literally what Pokemon X/Y is about.

However lack of men around is a nonsense idea to connect it to recent supposed war. We do see plenty non-old men around, however it is mostly indicated that men goes to work so they don't naturally stay at home or any places we can see them more than women or anyone who doesn't work around. We have to really focus on the fact that early Pokemon games suffered from heavy technical limitations. If there is no evidence for it cannot say shit that it is a fact.

And then when it comes to why player character lacking a father thoughout the series, who knows? It seems more like to give open blank info for your lore, and most importantly existence of family can cause hinderence and limitation of how a game's story can be therefore characters lacking parents or one of them is usual in JRPGs. To keep it simple better make your player have no family around or limit family members to few unless the game is about family theme.

However in Pokemon games "home" is starting point of the game as a fundamental pattern that is the reason why a mother even exist. Mother is also a basic NPC that can heal your Pokemon and give you stuff, introduce vital info about game and all but a father is not needed for a Pokemon game unless the game is about yet again a father or family in general.

So theory may be valid so it can be true, yet it's not based upon what we can even call evidence.

what about how Pokemon was originally going to take place in the real world? What if Surge fought in Nam or something?

 

[qw90700]

what about how Pokemon was originally going to take place in the real world? What if Surge fought in Nam or something?

He may have gone from our world to Pokemon world and took a Pokemon to our world to fight in a war and he returned to Pokemon world:

lolol

 

[DJPlace]

back in my day we just had pikachu's with AK-47's blasting up shit. that poor charizard never stood a chance.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Early pokémon lore was different from today.

I don't believe that there was one great war that happened before R&B but simply that since it's a mirror of our world the conflicts could've also happened.

Same reason why there's one character that basically implied that WWII may have had happened in the Cars universe.