Manga Thoughts on the final chapter of Chainsaw Man? (Also a rant)

Yeah thats shonen manga for you. You expected something else when the demographic is 13 years old? Try not to get invested so heavily on shonen manga. Blame the editors and advisors if you think Fujimoto is the only person who makes all these choices
Yes, I know that the weekly manga industry is basically hell on earth and it’s pretty obvious that Fujimoto got burnt out after the Falling Devil and Church arcs, but my issue is that he basically gave up on writing a story with a meaningful message like he did in CSM Part 1, and overall spent a lot of time doing almost nothing with his characters and plot points in CSM Part 2, and yes, I know that a lot of Battle Shonen manga endings are pretty bad, I read other non-shonen manga too, but I’m disappointed because CSM Part 1 is one of my favorite manga and I really love its final arc and ending overall.
 
Yeah thats shonen manga for you. You expected something else when the demographic is 13 years old? Try not to get invested so heavily on shonen manga. Blame the editors and advisors if you think Fujimoto is the only person who makes all these choices
That's a bad take, by this way of thinking i shouldn't expect anything from Akane-banashi, Ballroom e Youkoso, Bateren Kaidan, Centuria, Choujin X, Daiakutou Shounen, Hitokui Mansion to Ooya no Maison, Kurumizawa Yoshihiko no Gukou etc. while instead i should expect the best narrative from 3-gatsu no Lion (worse let down than chainsaw man) Abysmal, GTO: Paradise Lost, J⇔M , Katainaka no Ossan, Kensei ni Naru, Kouchuugun Shikan, Boukensha ni Naru etc.

Demographics are utterly useless, leaving aside the concept that depth is something that requires literary extraction and you can find all the depth possible in any literary work if you use your brain, if there's one thing i learned after busting my ass on a ton of bricks like books for my philosphy exams is that the more knowledge you acquire the more meaning and depth you search in those works that appear simpler, most times many series that happear more mature are just oceans with the depth of a puddle, the inverse can be said for many shounen and shoujo manga.

the problem is fujimoto, case closed.
 
Yes, I know that the weekly manga industry is basically hell on earth and it’s pretty obvious that Fujimoto got burnt out after the Falling Devil and Church arcs, but my issue is that he basically gave up on writing a story with a meaningful message like he did in CSM Part 1, and overall spent a lot of time doing almost nothing with his characters and plot points in CSM Part 2, and yes, I know that a lot of Battle Shonen manga endings are pretty bad, I read other non-shonen manga too, but I’m disappointed because CSM Part 1 is one of my favorite manga and I really love its final arc and ending overall.
The moral of Chainsaw Man Part 2 is that no matter how much you fuck up, hurting yourself and those around you, you can always just isekai into a feel good slice of life comedy where your actions have no consequences and drop "say that again" one liners with your friends forever 😂✌️
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Fujimoto managed to make this completely meaningless, incredible....... just incredible
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The moral of Chainsaw Man Part 2 is that no matter how much you fuck up, hurting yourself and those around you, you can always just isekai into a feel good slice of life comedy where your actions have no consequences and drop "say that again" one liners with your friends forever 😂✌️View attachment 166807
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Fujimoto managed to make this completely meaningless, incredible....... just incredibleView attachment 166809
The fact that he's not around in the new world but Power is...maddening.
 
I really hate the exclusion of Aki in Denji’s new life. Aki is such an important figure for him, that’s why losing him hit Denji as hard as it did.
He did mention seeing some seniors in the end so maybe he was implied to be one of them.
 
He did mention seeing some seniors in the end so maybe he was implied to be one of them.
God...... I hope ::weirdasshands
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You were truly magnificent Chainsaw Man, I shall only remember the first 97 chapters ::eggmanlaugh
 
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Evangelion's ending was controversial because it didn't pay off the main storyline and it was a weird therapy session for Shinji (who is the self insert for the creator). It seemed to be very personal for the creator and the criticism for the ending seemed to annoy Anno. Which then he made a second ending that finished the storyline, but it seemed to be spiteful because it turned Shinji into a master debater and pervert, Misato into a pdfile and killed everyone off in an extremely violent manner. But it also had Shinji end up with Asuka and sexual interactions with Misato, so it was also fan service for the weirdos in the fanbase too.






True, abrupt and weird endings suck (like Evangelion) but the alternative is worse (like what happens in Western superhero comics).
My issue with western super hero comic is the "runs", a brilliant writer can write some brilliant material an then just have it tossed in the thrash by the following writer.

I absolutely loved Michael J. Straczynskis Thor run, and Olivier Coipels art was sublime, I was so enthralled in those comics that when I think back on them, I imagine them animated. He left the comic as soon as he learned marvel were going to just undo his entire run of having asgard work on earth.

As for EOE, It's one of my favourite movies ever and it's not as simple as it was a fanservice movie or to spite the audience, there was plans to arrive to the same conclusion according to old scripts. instead it was made to be completely on the nose with everything because many fans at the time in Japan thought Rei was the best female character, things should have panned out so Rei and Shinji got together, despite the fact she's technically his sister genetically and did not view her sexually and this is made clear throughout the show.

Neon Genesis Evangelion Smile GIF


Anno had no idea anyone thought anything of Misato till he was interviewed by a western Magazine in 96, in which he was informed that she was the most popular female character in the west at the time, much to his surprise as he points out the Jpanese audience that was the male segment of it was obsessed with Rei, but he throws all the Rei fans under the bus by saying something very inflammatory about them. He was quite sore about them rejecting Asuka as she is the character he is still most proud of writing to this day, so much so the 30th anniversary short focused on her and it was brilliant
meta wise. We see Misato in various ways to show Shinji's eyes don't move when they would have if he was attracted her, he's shown being disgusted by her on several occasions, especially when he sees Misato with Kaji in instrumentality.

Shocked Asuka Langley GIF


Asuka was actually quite disliked amongst the japanese fanbase at the time, even hated, even in the west she was just seen as annoying and bratty back in the 90's. To paraphrase, he said the guys that liked Rei just want a passive doormat for themselves and have been made spineless by the post world war 2 mindset. I'm paraphrasing here, but you can look it up. Anno did not hold back.

Neon Genesis Evangelion Rei GIF


Back to all the on the nose stuff in EOE, it's made very clear that Asuka and Shinji have an issue with communication, He is constantly shown noticing her sexually, but not Misato, Rei or anyone else throughout the series, the Kawaru stuff is not what most fans interpreted it as, Anno made that clear in an interview in Japan at the time when asked about it, and the director of that episode, of his own volition, intended for it to a full blown "boys love story", Anno and the rest of the staff vetoed it, it's Shinji's ideal self and that's the intended appeal of Kaworu to Shinji. Asuka also teases him in a provocative manner at times, overtly so when wearing her bikini in front of him. So she deliberately frustrates him, but ironically dirves him away with the excess teasing, there's ale the fact he leaned in to kiss her when she first layed on his bed and he stops because she started crying in her sleep.

neon genesis evangelion smile GIF


So, how does Anno make it clear, very clear that Asuka was the object of Shinji's desire and a reflection of Jung's anima and animus between them both? By beating the audience over the head with it in the hospital, but he give us an awesome Asuka is the hero battle (Asuka was originally the protag but Anno was rejected because of Nadias poor ratings) and show us a surreal visualisation of instrumentality featuring come sweet death. As for Misato giving Shinji a kiss, I would assume that based on his friends reaction to her, she mistakenly assumed he had a crush on her and kissed him since she was bleeding out and thought it would motivate him.

Neon Genesis Evangelion GIF


Anno says we can interpret it how we want, clearly not since he was insulting the audience constantly between 95 - 96 for doing just that and making demands of the story.

Having to explain the point of EOE definitely not being made to spite the audience was not on my bingo card for today but that's a myth that showed up years ago and some fans still believe it. This would cause many fans to just interpret the whole movie, and if anything dismiss most of it, though he was clearly beating us over the head with crumbs he placed throughout the series. A lot of the spite stuff actually stemmed from internet forums at the time stating as such because he didn't put Rei with Shinji.

Damn that post got long, and I really don't want this thread to turn into an Eva one, but when such profound movie is reduced to spite and fan service I felt I had to point out why it wasn't. You're obviously free to feel the movie isn't to your taste etc., but Anno really doesn't give a shit what the fans think, let alone make a whole movie to spite them and especially not back then.
 
Having to explain the point of EOE definitely not being made to spite the audience was not on my bingo card for today but that's a myth that showed up years ago and some fans still believe it. This would cause many fans to just interpret the whole movie, and if anything dismiss most of it, though he was clearly beating us over the head with crumbs he placed throughout the series. A lot of the spite stuff actually stemmed from internet forums at the time stating as such because he didn't put Rei with Shinji.

Damn that post got long, and I really don't want this thread to turn into an Eva one, but when such profound movie is reduced to spite and fan service I felt I had to point out why it wasn't. You're obviously free to feel the movie isn't to your taste etc., but Anno really doesn't give a shit what the fans think, let alone make a whole movie to spite them and especially not back then.

Agree to disagree. I still feel like EOE is some sort of fanservice mixed with spite at the fans who crticized the original ending of Evangelion. That is not to say it makes it bad, but there are definitively some scenes that I feel are out of character compared to everything we've seen before. I cannot speak to the motivation behind it, so maybe the spite accusation is unfair. But it would make sense for Anno to be annoyed at all the fans shitting on his ending. That doesn't necessarily make it true, to be fair.

It is funny that the planned ending would've been worse, Shinji ending up with his "sister" although not surprising considering how Japan is. And yeah its not surprising Japan doesn't like Misato as much as Americans. She is brash, assertive, loud and drinks beer. Behaves like an liberated woman for sure. She is my favorite for sure, which is why some of the parts of EOE pissed me off.

Anno says we can interpret it how we want, clearly not since he was insulting the audience constantly between 95 - 96 for doing just that and making demands of the story.

So I wasn't hallucinating stuff, there was some resentment from Anno towards the audience. Its been so long, I don't remember the details but I remember him being salty about Eva's audience focusing on the fanservice and not the story.
 
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This is the Ending ??? Is this supposed to be a joke do we have April where are the cameras ?? 😦 what is that why


I hate remakes but the Manga needs one..now !!
 
Yeah thats shonen manga for you. You expected something else when the demographic is 13 years old? Try not to get invested so heavily on shonen manga. Blame the editors and advisors if you think Fujimoto is the only person who makes all these choices
As an avid comic-book reader, i can't agree more with this. There are tons of manga done in Japan, with genres like horror, sci-fi, crime fiction and so on. I read Chainsaw Man until before the middle of part two, it's fun but at the end of the day, i prefer to re-read an OS made by the same author (like Goodbye Eri or Look Back) on another thing, like Ufo Mushroom Invasion (published by Smudge), volumes like Smashed by Junji Ito, Panorama by Hideshi Hino or my the two volumes of Golgo 13 published by Glénat with the 13 best stories of the character according to the readers.
 
I don't read it, but on a Discord Server my friends got a riot mocking it, especially one of them that is a hardcore fan
 
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Fujimoto is letting FNaF fans run laps around him and CSM fans are okay with that 😂✌️

The concept of Scott Cawthon being a better writer than Fujimoto 😂 😂 😂
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LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 😂 😂 😂

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This reply by the PlayStation UK twitter account is fucking foul and full of hate and i fucking love it LMFAO 😂✌️
 
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My least favorite ending is Berserk's where God dies and his remaining servants must desperately piece the universe back together again to try and stop the dissolution of causality and resolve the plot.
 
Agree to disagree. I still feel like EOE is some sort of fanservice mixed with spite at the fans who crticized the original ending of Evangelion. That is not to say it makes it bad, but there are definitively some scenes that I feel are out of character compared to everything we've seen before. I cannot speak to the motivation behind it, so maybe the spite accusation is unfair. But it would make sense for Anno to be annoyed at all the fans shitting on his ending. That doesn't necessarily make it true, to be fair.

It is funny that the planned ending would've been worse, Shinji ending up with his "sister" although not surprising considering how Japan is. And yeah its not surprising Japan doesn't like Misato as much as Americans. She is brash, assertive, loud and drinks beer. Behaves like an liberated woman for sure. She is my favorite for sure, which is why some of the parts of EOE pissed me off.



So I wasn't hallucinating stuff, there was some resentment from Anno towards the audience. Its been so long, I don't remember the details but I remember him being salty about Eva's audience focusing on the fanservice and not the story.
Yes, Anno made it clear as he was very loud back then, and openly spoke his mind on topics publicly.

You'd be right, he worked so hard on that series as a psychological analysis of people as he had severe depression at the time and was reading multiple psychology works. A large majority of male fans in Japan just wanted a woman like Rei for a wife and to buy merch based on her, which seems to have driven him ballistic almost, we only see what he said publicly but he was likely fuming behind closed doors. That's how he wrote things to be, so some of EOE is essentially driving stuff home regarding whom Shinji actually gravitated toward. He is immensely proud of how well he wrote Asuka and for the, at the time, majority of fans, they hated Asuka with a passion. So yes, the movie is spiteful but not simply because of the ending backlash, but for multiple other reasons all relating to "death of the author" because he assumed subtle hints were all the audience needed. The irony of it all, is Rei get's very little characterisation as the series goes on because Anno literally forgot about her.

In the Eva 30th short there's only a mention of the choking scene by the OG Asuka, and not anything else, but she does get her equivalence of the og series ending though via instrumentality. It's played as joke but a nice touch all the same.

I'd also imagine if Misato was your favourite, that she was done dirty by EOE's characterisation and then just killed off, you'd assume that she was throw away in it, and yes, she kind of is whihc is unfortunate.

Yoko Taro is overseeing a new series and I'm quite hyped. If anyone can handle writing something like Eva, its him.
 
in short this is a good ending imo. it's not 100% fantastic but it reframes this as a bildungsroman of sorts, with Denji having gotten to live an entirely different life and seeing how he made his own messes, and what really would make him happy. I think that reframing works really well. I do think Pochita pulling the strings fully and making the decision somewhat messes with that, but by ad large I walked away mostly satisfied. I also think it justifies the last 30 chapters direction somewhat, though not fully, because IMO they were still fairly weak.

I think it's also worth noting that in an interview with Da Vinci, Fujimoto suggested that this was probably planned from the start. (source on the wikipedia page of chainsaw man).

I don't think its the best ending ever but I walk away having enjoyed what I read. (also can we please stop calling for fujimotos death, no one deserves that for simply writing a controversial ending jeez)
 
Personally it feels like fujimoto was being horny as hell and masturbated his way through the manga until just before the end where he metaphorically "came" and went:

"Oh shit!...what did i do?, ah well fuck let's make an happy ending"
 
in short this is a good ending imo. it's not 100% fantastic but it reframes this as a bildungsroman of sorts, with Denji having gotten to live an entirely different life and seeing how he made his own messes, and what really would make him happy. I think that reframing works really well. I do think Pochita pulling the strings fully and making the decision somewhat messes with that, but by ad large I walked away mostly satisfied. I also think it justifies the last 30 chapters direction somewhat, though not fully, because IMO they were still fairly weak.

I think it's also worth noting that in an interview with Da Vinci, Fujimoto suggested that this was probably planned from the start. (source on the wikipedia page of chainsaw man).

I don't think its the best ending ever but I walk away having enjoyed what I read. (also can we please stop calling for fujimotos death, no one deserves that for simply writing a controversial ending jeez)
“Kill Fujimoto” is a meme within the fanbase, lol. I don’t wish death on Fujimoto or anyone jesus, I’m just disappointed in someone I was glazing back in 2021 to 2023.

Fujimoto was a way better writer back in the days of Fire Punch and CSM Part 1, while CSM Part 2 started off promising, it took a big drop in quality after the Falling Devil and Church arcs
 
I Listed EVERY Major Plot Point Chainsaw Man Never Resolved
Oh boy, strap yourself in. I’m going to list every plot point and threat that was never addressed or concluded, in semi-chronological order. I know a lot of them aren’t that important (looking at you, Kobeni’s contract) i just used "major" in the title as an exaggeration, and the story could work just fine without answering everything… but when you stack this many unresolved threads on top of each other, it starts getting ridiculous how much we still don’t know. Anyway, here we go:
  • What was Kobeni’s devil contract?
  • Why can only Weapon Devils become hybrids?
  • The Devil that gave the Hybrids their name was eaten by Pochita… so why didn’t the Hybrids disappear?
  • What happened to Reze after her fight with Pochita?
  • Why does Makima hate her sisters?
  • What’s the actual lore behind Pochita vs the Four Horsemen? Why do they have such beef?
  • What kind of Devil is Pochita truly?
  • How could Pochita create clones of himself? We never saw him do that again.
  • We went to Hell twice… and got basically zero lore about it. What the hell?
  • Where tf did Kishibe go? What was this “important” business he had to take care of?
  • What was the deal with the first Fakesaw Man? The one that killed Yuko had a completely different appearance, way of speaking, and motives compared to the Fire Devil version.
  • The Future Devil predicted the prophecy was gonna happen a specific way, but apparently his visions can be wrong? It changed thanks to Lil D’s interference and happened earlier than predicted. What a Future Devil he is, lmao.
  • Why did Barem never transform at all in CSM Part 2, he did transform in Part 1, but not Part 2, Why didn't he use his hybrid devil powers at all in part 2?
  • What tf was the point of Miri Sugo, lmao? How did he get a cover? bro does nothing.
  • Lil D’s powers had “conditions” that were a big “secret”… yeah, we never found out.
  • Where did Quanxi go? We saw her during the prison break and she just vanished?
  • How do Primal Fears actually work? Darkness Devil can’t leave Hell but Aging Devil can? Is that specific to him? Because Death Devil could apparently leave too…?
  • What is Yoshida’s deal? He got eaten by Pochita and that erased the Octopus Devil? How? What’s his contract? And why is he so loyal to Public Safety when he started as a random civilian devil hunter?
  • If Nayuta was killed by Lil D and Barem like it’s insinuated, why didn’t she turn her into a pawn? That seems like the obvious move. Why waste a perfectly good pawn?
  • All the sexual assault stuff Yoru did to both Denji and Asa was never addressed… I guess bro.
  • Aging Devil mentioned humans turn into trees if they don’t die. What’s the deal with that? Just a random fun fact he threw in, I guess?
  • What was the point of the Famine Devil/Death Devil reveal? It never led to anything besides cheap shock value.
  • “When the Death Devil descends, all the high-ranking devils greet her”… I guess that was a lie then?
  • What was Lil D’s actual plan? There were so many clues she orchestrated a ton of shit (Asa killed by a Fire Devil minion who’s a Death pawn, forcing Denji to get sushi to see Nayuta’s head, etc.), but a lot of her actions were also super contradictory. Was she just stupid? We’ll never know — she just dies and never comes back, lmao.
  • What was the Death Devil’s true form?
  • What was the point of the Famine Devil… like at all? Kobeni 2.0, I guess.
  • We were shown Yoru can’t take over Asa when she’s scared, but that straight-up stopped being the case later. Did Yoru just get stronger? But Asa could still sometimes take over. Never explained.
  • Did the Michigan Sword just get off-screened or what, lmao?
  • Yoru’s entire conclusion was just “your sins are nothing to a devil”? After 50+ chapters of her being a main focus… that was it?
  • Pochita’s power got retconned. He was never shown to be able to change the past. Also, why did Power come back but Nayuta too? Wouldn’t it make more sense for a brand new Blood Devil to appear? Feels like straight-up cherry-picking.
  • Why did we never get the 10-chapter Asa and Denji sweaty sex arc? A genuine travesty if you ask me.
  • "Wasn’t there also something about a person who escaped the Aging Devil’s domain?" Yeah, there were theories it was yoshida, but it never got mentioned again
  • "What is the deal with Pochita's allies which Makima showed." The Chainsaw Man followers never came back/were expanded upon.
  • "We don't know who defeated the Gun Devil originally." It was assumed it was Pochita i guess? but its just headcanon at this point.
  • Did we all just waste our time reading this series? …Yeah. Sadly yes.

  • These are just the ones I could remember off the top of my head. If you have more, drop them below. Looking back at this list… DAMN. Nothing got resolved, lmao. The more I think about it, the more this ending becomes straight-up ass.
 
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Haven read it. In fact, haven't read part 2 at all since nayuta died. Part 1 is gud but part 2 is just fujimoto throwing edgy doodoo on the wall and seeing which sticks or stinks.
 
This is the Ending ??? Is this supposed to be a joke do we have April where are the cameras ?? 😦 what is that why


I hate remakes but the Manga needs one..now !!
Sometimes manga gets remade due to cancellation and rushed endings. Just look at Battle Angel as that's a rather infamous example of it happening.
 

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