This isn't a console war, it's a console mercy killing....

[dkpopman]

for once we saw an original Donkey Kong game since Tropical Freeze (and the first 3D game since DK64) as well as a new Kirby Air Ride game

ao interesting to me how their output in 2025 gets ignored, even though it was quality, and didnt rely on safe picks. its almost like people were pump faking when asking for these smaller franchises to get the AAA love.

 

[NOTthatHARD]

Assuming this is how it is (I'm not in business or marketing) it would make sense that if the world were, so too would Nintendo. A company will have to keep up and evolve, even if it's in a bad way. Unless they went private and then they could do whatever, right?


If you're not aware of it, go and read about price fixing and retailer bullying and exclusivity deals in the 80s. The only reason it seemed less so to you under Iwata is that he was a friendly face who did good interviews. I don't mean to say he wasn't a nice man as it seems he certainly was, but his job was to maximize profit, not make people go "awww" over Kirby or whatever. That's marketing's job and he just happened to fit what they were doing then.

Absolutely true, but this only works in a growing/stable economy in which people can spend money on useless things like consoles and games, the problem is that the economy is getting worse (world wide), this is forcing millions of gamers (also world wide) to look for more affordable options for gaming, like low end PCs and smartphones; those millions of gamers abandoned/ignored nintendo becouse it isn't the “affordable family console” anymore. Make no mistake, nintendo is bleeding customers and money right now.

Remember the lessons we learned from xbox: excessive greed can kill a company faster than trying to be nice to your customers; it’s better to make a little less money but have the support of the customer instead of having them hate you.

 

[bjork]

Absolutely true, but this only works in a growing/stable economy in which people can spend money on useless things like consoles and games, the problem is that the economy is getting worse (world wide), this is forcing millions of gamers (also world wide) to look for more affordable options for gaming, like low end PCs and smartphones; those millions of gamers abandoned/ignored nintendo becouse it isn't the “affordable family console” anymore. Make no mistake, nintendo is bleeding customers and money right now.

Remember the lessons we learned from xbox: excessive greed can kill a company faster than trying to be nice to your customers; it’s better to make a little less money but have the support of the customer instead of having them hate you.

I agree with all of this, if it were me they'd all be private companies with more of a community spirit. Some book I was reading about game history spoke about how in early computer days, companies would share what they were working on so that two companies didn't put out too similar of products close together, that way they didn't eat each other. Far different mindset from nowadays.

I just still will always scoff at the notion that someone at Nintendo flipped a switch to pure evil one day and now they only exist to bone the consumer. I think you're right about the economy, but there's also an aspect of people aging into having to buy their own products as opposed to receiving them for gifts and going, "wait, when I was a kid, it wasn't like this." Yes it was, they were just too busy making play-doh Marios or whatever to know. You know?

 

[PhaseJump]

I agree with all of this, if it were me they'd all be private companies with more of a community spirit. Some book I was reading about game history spoke about how in early computer days, companies would share what they were working on so that two companies didn't put out too similar of products close together, that way they didn't eat each other. Far different mindset from nowadays.

I just still will always scoff at the notion that someone at Nintendo flipped a switch to pure evil one day and now they only exist to bone the consumer. I think you're right about the economy, but there's also an aspect of people aging into having to buy their own products as opposed to receiving them for gifts and going, "wait, when I was a kid, it wasn't like this." Yes it was, they were just too busy making play-doh Marios or whatever to know. You know?

And on the other side of the playground battlefield, the Sonic fans were too busy eating their play-doh.

 

[Kovlak]

You are completely out of touch in thinking any normie parent is gonna get their kids a DS/3DS. That is wild.

This is exactly what I was writing about, you could have never came to that conclusion if you weren't operating with some level of circular reasoning.

Like I said previously, i don't think normies are as uninformed as you think they are nowadays. The jump in the 3DS price seems to point out that there is a large demand for the system.

Also appreciate the personal attacks.

 

[bjork]

And on the other side of the playground battlefield, the Sonic fans were too busy eating their play-doh.

DONT TALK BAD ABOUT SONIC

leave tails alone etc

 

[PhaseJump]

DONT TALK BAD ABOUT SONIC

leave tails alone etc

 

[Kovlak]

Which is why I said companies change with the times. The only reason they don't do those things nowadays is that they got caught and called out. So they found new avenues to make money. In 2026, that means $80 games and paid DLC or whatever. It isn't super complex.

Also, I don't think considering units sold to retailers as units sold is wholly disingenuous. If I'm Nintendo and Best Buy wants to order 500,000 Switch 2s, I just sold 500,000 Switch 2s. It's not my fault if Best Buy sends too many to Topeka, Kansas or something and can't sell through at the register. This kind of thing was what the original purpose of E3 was, to get buyers all in one place. Not for goofs to get in and get free keychains and post about it online (I was one of those goofs, mind you)

A reason people don't act like 50 years ago is also the culture they grew in. Culture has changed from then till now. It's another generation.

Also about the difference between sold to customers and to stores is that store aren't the Nintendo product users. Stores won't invest in the Nintendo ecosystem and buy their products for themselves. They're the middleman.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 7:49 PM

I don't want to sound annoying but people have complained about Nintendo making only Mario/Zelda/FE/AC/other big series and for once we saw an original Donkey Kong game since Tropical Freeze (and the first 3D game since DK64) as well as a new Kirby Air Ride game (which is the first big original game since 2022's Forgotten Land).

In fact I'd even say that they should continue to focus on the less popular IPs because we already have a ton of Mario and Zelda games to do (furthermore Hyrule Warriors is also a Zelda game and DK Bananza is part of the Mario universe so they technically count).

I understand your point, but Nintendo's biggest franchises matter in creating system sellers. A lot of people buy the newest Nintendo console to play Mario and Zelda.

And the only game that I see that really makes people itching to buy a Switch 2 is Donkey Kong Bananza. Pokemon Z-A, Mario Kart World and Metroid Prime 4 seem kinda low effort and underwelming. And lets not talk about paid Switch 2 Editions...

 

[bjork]

A reason people don't act like 50 years ago is also the culture they grew in. Culture has changed from then till now. It's another generation.

Also about the difference between sold to customers and to stores is that store aren't the Nintendo product users. Stores won't invest in the Nintendo ecosystem and buy their products for themselves. They're the middleman.

Culture changes? You don't say. It's almost like... changing with the times, which I've said multiple times already. I don't know what you're getting at here.

Stores aren't the end user, but even if you can buy directly from Nintendo, most do not. Hence, the data being positioned in different ways to make a press release sound better. Again, this isn't complex. At this point I don't even know what your argument is about.

 

[Kovlak]

Culture changes? You don't say. It's almost like... changing with the times, which I've said multiple times already. I don't know what you're getting at here.

Stores aren't the end user, but even if you can buy directly from Nintendo, most do not. Hence, the data being positioned in different ways to make a press release sound better. Again, this isn't complex. At this point I don't even know what your argument is about.

Nintendo isn't the same company it was 50 years ago. Like the US isn't the same country that made a law 150 years ago. I don't think it makes much sense compare two very distant periods in time and say there is a connection. And we've seen this with how many developers tout their old games - "the developer of X, Y and Z games" - only to fumble horribly their new game. They're not the same companies.

And it's misleading and not really relevant what stores buy from Nintendo as they're not investing in Nintendo's ecosystem, saying little about the current health of a company and their product. And like you said, it's just to make the numbers look better to the public and generate hype.

This gen Nintendo seems to be focused in manufacturing hype.

 

[bjork]

Ok

 

[Ikagura]

I understand your point, but Nintendo's biggest franchises matter in creating system sellers. A lot of people buy the newest Nintendo console to play Mario and Zelda.

Of course most casual gamers only think about those yet they shouldn't be all the company is known for. The N64 didn't have a Zelda at launch, the Gamecube didn't have either and the Wii didn't have a Mario game at launch (although the Zelda one was crossgen rather than an exclusive).

And the only game that I see that really makes people itching to buy a Switch 2 is Donkey Kong Bananza. Pokemon Z-A, Mario Kart World and Metroid Prime 4 seem kinda low effort and underwelming. And lets not talk about paid Switch 2 Editions...

You forget about Kirby Air Ride but low effort in which way? That they don't seem to rely too much on Mario/Zelda?

People already complained about the bajilions of Mario games on their hardware while some other franchises are starving.

 

[iamthemilkman]

It's ironic how a lot of the Doom inspired indie/AA games of today, Nu-Doom Trilogy itself, and even Doom³ have more way environmental activity than any COD/Gears/military clone shooter. Even games like Bulletstorm have more going on than COD, Gears, or nearly all of the other clones. Reminds me of this old review from Yahtzee. I never hated Doom³, but it was never my personal favorite. Doom 64 is better.

All of the crazy shit you can do in MadWorld! A Wii game from 2009.

I'm one of those people whose favorite Doom is Doom 3. I prefer it being a horror game instead of just shooting waves of enemies. Recent Doom games have become too much like Painkiller and Serious Sam. I still like them, however they're very repetitive and mindless to me.

 

[BrawlMan]

I'm one of those people whose favorite Doom is Doom 3. I prefer it being a horror game instead of just shooting waves of enemies. Recent Doom games have become too much like Painkiller and Serious Sam. I still like them, however they're very repetitive and mindless to me.

Everyone has their personal preferences. Really, it's mainly Eternal that suffers most from this, but that's not why I dislike it. Dark Age while having a lot of enemies, steps, it back a bit and feels more like a Quake game. I haven't played that one yet, but from what i've seen and heard from people who are in favor of it.

 

[Kovlak]

The N64 didn't have a Zelda at launch, the Gamecube didn't have either and the Wii didn't have a Mario game at launch (although the Zelda one was crossgen rather than an exclusive).

Curiously the best selling of those consoles was the Wii. With the N64 and Gamecube not being very successful.

You forget about Kirby Air Ride but low effort in which way? That

I forgot about Kirby Air Riders, but that seems like a niche racing game that some people really liked.

Pokemon Z-A and Metroid Prime 4 had bland open worlds. The DLC for Pokemon Z-A was priced at $30 and it was repetitive and a time waster. Pokemon honestly seems low effort when compared with games with similar features.

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisonment is more Hyrule Warriors. It looks good, but there are a lot of Warriors games in the market and a few other Hyrule Warriors games.

Mario Kart World on one side has significantly less content that Mario Kart 8 and, from what I've seen around, the new stuff seems to have a lukewarm reception.

Then there's the paid Switch 2 editions of games like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Wonder, that on top of still being full priced games years later, have $10-$20 dollars addons that add little to the experience besides improved graphics and performance.

And you have Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 that are $40 each or $70 in a bundle. And that's two twenty something years games.

Nintendo seems pretty low effort and high returns for the most part.

 

[bjork]

Curiously the best selling of those consoles was the Wii. With the N64 and Gamecube not being very successful.

I forgot about Kirby Air Riders, but that seems like a niche racing game that some people really liked.

Pokemon Z-A and Metroid Prime 4 had bland open worlds. The DLC for Pokemon Z-A was priced at $30 and it was repetitive and a time waster. Pokemon honestly seems low effort when compared with games with similar features.

Hyrule Warriors: Age of Imprisonment is more Hyrule Warriors. It looks good, but there are a lot of Warriors games in the market and a few other Hyrule Warriors games.

Mario Kart World on one side has significantly less content that Mario Kart 8 and, from what I've seen around, the new stuff seems to have a lukewarm reception.

Then there's the paid Switch 2 editions of games like Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Wonder, that on top of still being full priced games years later, have $10-$20 dollars addons that add little to the experience besides improved graphics and performance.

And you have Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 that are $40 each or $70 in a bundle. And that's two twenty something years games.

Nintendo seems pretty low effort and high returns for the most part.

You mentioned 5 releases in this post, that have all come out in the last calendar year. Even if that were all there was, that is anything but lazy. You not caring for products is well and fine, but shitting on the people who worked on them because of that, is kinda lame?

Also, pointing to MKW having less content than a game with a decade-long tail is really a reach. No shit? A game that originally came out in like 2014 has more content than a game not even a year old? I am floored at this revelation.
You could just go "I don't like Nintendo" and it would come off way better.

 

[saturnsh2x2]

You are completely out of touch in thinking any normie parent is gonna get their kids a DS/3DS. That is wild.

This is exactly what I was writing about, you could have never came to that conclusion if you weren't operating with some level of circular reasoning.

Unfortunately, I don't even think it's practical at this point, even if parents were aware of the option. From what I hear, 3DS prices are soaring online.

 

[BrawlMan]

Unfortunately, I don't even think it's practical at this point, even if parents were aware of the option. From what I hear, 3DS prices are soaring online.

Thank God I kept my DS and 3DSXL.

 

[dkpopman]

Unfortunately, I don't even think it's practical at this point, even if parents were aware of the option.

Absolutely. That point was completely ridiculous.

 

[Kovlak]

Absolutely. That point was completely ridiculous.

You're forgetting the lot who is buying the system to make the price soar.

And when you see that even if you pay around a Switch 2 for a 3DS with homebrew, especially if you buy in a store with warranty, you probably won't have to buy anything else for a while unlike with the Switch 2, where you'll be paying premium for everything Nintendo. Controllers, games, camera, acessories, etc.

Right now the 3DS has better value than the Switch 2.

You mentioned 5 releases in this post, that have all come out in the last calendar year. Even if that were all there was, that is anything but lazy. You not caring for products is well and fine, but shitting on the people who worked on them because of that, is kinda lame?

Also, pointing to MKW having less content than a game with a decade-long tail is really a reach. No shit? A game that originally came out in like 2014 has more content than a game not even a year old? I am floored at this revelation.
You could just go "I don't like Nintendo" and it would come off way better.

Have you ever heard about quality over quantity? A few really good games is better than a collection of mostly half-assed games.

It's not just that Mario Kart World has less content. It's that none of the post-launch support people were counting on ever launched. For all intents and purposes Mario Kart World came out to die. And costs a whopping $80.

Mario Kart 8 also didn't launch with all the tracks, but there was post-launch support unlike with Mario Kart World.

And I find it very unusual your appeal to emotion. I bet you don't feel that sympathetic about the Highguard devs...

You can also can come out as a Nintendo shill, if you like.

 

[NOTthatHARD]

I agree with all of this, if it were me they'd all be private companies with more of a community spirit. Some book I was reading about game history spoke about how in early computer days, companies would share what they were working on so that two companies didn't put out too similar of products close together, that way they didn't eat each other. Far different mindset from nowadays.

This sounds nice. Hope we can go back to that mentality someday.

I just still will always scoff at the notion that someone at Nintendo flipped a switch to pure evil one day and now they only exist to bone the consumer. I think you're right about the economy, but there's also an aspect of people aging into having to buy their own products as opposed to receiving them for gifts and going, "wait, when I was a kid, it wasn't like this." Yes it was, they were just too busy making play-doh Marios or whatever to know. You know?

You are right, but with a guy called Doug Bowser as the president, it does makes you wonder.

 

[Kovlak]

Unfortunately, I don't even think it's practical at this point, even if parents were aware of the option. From what I hear, 3DS prices are soaring online.

Absolutely. That point was completely ridiculous.

Here is a video that makes the case why a 3DS is better value than a Switch 2:

Some of his points:

- it's pockeatable;
- the games are significantly cheaper;
- on original firmware it plays all or almost all 3DS games and all DS games;
- with homebrew you can play also a lot of other older games for free;
- battery life is better.

This makes the 3DS better value than a Switch 2. And if the release rhythm of new releases on the Switch 2 is anything like the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series, there won't be that many first party games and you can be sure they will never drop in price, unless in some sales much later on, if it's anything like the og Switch.

And even at the same price or close, the 3DS is better value.

To me this discussion is a no-brainer, and, unless you present some arguments worth discussing, I'll decline to reply, because personal attacks or unsubstantial attacks to my arguments aren't worth my time.

 

[dkpopman]

ok.

 

[moonbits]

"here son, a PS1, it has more value than a Switch 2!"
"b-but Dad I want to play Roblox with my friends"
"nonesense, child"

 

[BETTER GAMER]

I agree with the main point of the topic

Yeah it's arguable if the console totally lost it's effectiveness against PC, but if we make the argument just between the consoles themselves; then it's valid and the XBOX totally lost nearly any benefit from owning it