This isn't a console war, it's a console mercy killing....

[BrawlMan]

don't want to sound annoying but people have complained about Nintendo making only Mario/Zelda/FE/AC/other

People who've made those complaints since the GC and Wii era, are either apathetic about Nintendo at best, or just blind haters for the sake of it. I tend not to pay them any mind. And when they did bring back really old franchises during that time on Wii or later, those same people still complained, or felt that it "wasn't enough".

At least Nintendo has multiple franchises they rotate and do something different enough with. Not every single game is a stroke a genius, or they dropped the ball, but they've done great overall, when you stop and think about it. At least DK got a brand new 3d mainline title. We also got a brand new Kirby Air Riders. A racing game spinoff that has not been seen since the mid 2000s on GC.

 

[PhaseJump]

 

[Ikagura]

People who've made those complaints since the GC and Wii era, are either apathetic about Nintendo at best, or just blind haters for the sake of it. I tend not to pay them any mind. And when they did bring back really old franchises during that time on Wii or later, those same people still complained, or felt that it "wasn't enough".

I'd still got to say that I'm not that fan of the "gimmick era" of the Wii and Wii U and I'm quite glad they haven't forced the NS2 to have a new one for the sake of appearing different when people just wanted the same device with more power.

While I'm glad we saw a new Punch-Out and a proper revival for Kirby (as in a new mainline game developped by Hal Lab on a home console) I feel like the Wii/Wii U was mainly aimed at casual players and had a ton of games with Miis alongside Mario and Zelda.

I do hope they'd bring back more old franchises in this era.

At least Nintendo has multiple franchises they rotate and do something different enough with. Not every single game is a stroke a genius, or they dropped the ball, but they've done great overall, when you stop and think about it. At least DK got a brand new 3d mainline title. We also got a brand new Kirby Air Riders. A racing game spinoff that has not been seen since the mid 2000s on GC.

And this is an actual good thing. Zelda and Mario can still wait their turn.

 

[BrawlMan]

I'd still got to say that I'm not that fan of the "gimmick era" of the Wii and Wii U and I'm quite glad they haven't forced the NS2 to have a new one for the sake of appearing different when people just wanted the same device with more power.

I am not making excuses for that era, but they at least had more than enough variety of 1st party games. NS1 and NS2 are better versions of the WiiU without the forced motion controls nor tablet.

And this is an actual good thing. Zelda and Mario can still wait their turn.

Exactly. Also, each Hyrule Warriors game is different from the last one or they have unique mechanics. They even have Star Fox/Panzer Dragoon style rail shooting in the latest game. You wouldn't expect that in a Musou title.

 

[Ikagura]

I am not making excuses for that era, but they at least had more than enough variety of 1st party games. NS1 and NS2 are better versions of the Wii U without the forced motion controls nor tablet.

People have kinda complained about NS1 games being ports (and while I cannot deny there have been a massive amount of remasters on this hardware which is also the case in this current era in general) I think that removing forced motion control (like Skyward Sword) and the tablet were the main selling parts of those.

I like Kirby RtDL without having to move the pad each time I needed to play those subspace levels.

Exactly. Also, each Hyrule Warriors game is different from the last one or they have unique mechanics. They even have Star Fox/Panzer Dragoon style rail shooting in the latest game. You wouldn't expect that in a Musou title.

I don't care about Musous but Zelda is quite versatile.

Speaking of rail shooting they could finally bring back Starfox (even if it's a remake of the 3DS version of Lylat Wars).

 

[BrawlMan]

People have kinda complained about NS1 games being ports

They never complain about the massive master's imports that came to PS4 from PS3 or previous generations. Those people were either bandwagon, jumpers or haters just to be hating. Yes, there were many ports, but it was no different from what Xone and PS4 were doing, and it was mainly 2017 and some parts of 2018 where to switch was getting a lot of ports. Once it got to 2019, this was occurring nowhere near as much and more than enough original titles were coming out exclusive to the system, or would sometimes get the better versions.

 

[Ikagura]

They never complain about the massive master's imports that came to PS4 from PS3 or previous generations. Those people were either bandwagon, jumpers or haters just to be hating. Yes, there were many ports, but it was no different from what Xone and PS4 were doing, and it was mainly 2017 and some parts of 2018 where to switch was getting a lot of ports. Once it got to 2019, this was occurring nowhere near as much and more than enough original titles were coming out exclusive to the system, or would sometimes get the better versions.

And let's not ignore how even on PC there were plenty of remakes and remasters (such as improved engines for games like the KEX remasters by NightDive) to make them run better on current rigs.

So yeah, in a way that's just the zeitgest of gaming for the last two gens, there are still many first party exclusives on the hardware (despite some disingenuous takes like Smash Ultimate being "just a Deluxe version of Smash 4"). The first two years having Wii U ports were mainly because of how bad the console has sold and if there were barely any people would've complained about how it would be hard to legitimately play Wii U games.

 

[PhaseJump]

TL:DR: Nintendo sucks.

 

[moonbits]

The first two years having Wii U ports were mainly because of how bad the console has sold and if there were barely any people would've complained about how it would be hard to legitimately play Wii U games.

but they made me wait 8 years for Xenoblade Chronicles X...

 

[Ikagura]

TL:DR: Nintendo sucks.

No, we haven't said that. Read our messages again.

Please contribute to our conversation with constructive criticism or don't, thank you.

but they made me wait 8 years for Xenoblade Chronicles X...

X wasn't seen as a kinda spin-off to the numbered titles? I haven't played many Xeno games but I knew the departure X was compared to 2 and 3.

 

[moonbits]

X wasn't seen as a kinda spin-off to the numbered titles? I haven't played many Xeno games but I knew the departure X was compared to 2 and 3.

It's a bit of a spin-off, sort of. It's less story driven, more open by design... a little too open some might argue.

 

[Ikagura]

It's a bit of a spin-off, sort of. It's less story driven, more open by design... a little too open some might argue.

Eight years for a HD port of a Wii U game is quite a lot (well, the entire generation's lifespan) yet I feel like XCX wasn't old enough to get its own since the Switch came two years after.

 

[moonbits]

Eight years for a HD port of a Wii U game is quite a lot (well, the entire generation's lifespan) yet I feel like XCX wasn't old enough to get its own since the Switch came two years after.

It was very ambitious for it's hardware so much so that Monolith publicly stated that porting it would be more effort than they'd like to tackle. It was a technical marvel on Wii U, even had extra downloads to optimize loading.

I'd say it was the top of the list for Switch ports but given it's scale and technicality it proved too much.. or Monolith was too busy helping Nintendo R&D with Zelda

 

[Ikagura]

It was very ambitious for it's hardware so much so that Monolith publicly stated that porting it would be more effort than they'd like to tackle. It was a technical marvel on Wii U, even had extra downloads to optimize loading.

A bit of a shame it was on the Wii U (which didn't sell as well). At least the Switch version ran better?

I'd say it was the top of the list for Switch ports but given it's scale and technicality it proved too much.. or Monolith was too busy helping Nintendo R&D with Zelda

Oh right, like how Retro Studio couldn't make a third DKC game because they were busy with MP4.

 

[BrawlMan]

TL:DR: Nintendo sucks.

You are speaking for yourself. You don't ever speak for me nor the other people on this topic. Get that shit out here.

 

[PhaseJump]

You are speaking for yourself. You don't ever speak for me nor the other people on this topic. Get that shit out here.

TL:DR: Xbox sucks.

 

[iamthemilkman]

Don't romanticise those eras, those people died making those games. Crunched to death and tears because of insane publisher demands. We don't do it anymore because it was insanity.

It's now people like you and me making games, not baby boomers with insane working environments. Nobody wants to die for this shit, no matter the passion.

Crunch is still a thing in AAA game development. That never went away. I'm specifically talking about prolonged development time, as well as the costs associated with it, because of the constant graphics race. And, in fact, while graphics get better, immersion and interactivity have gotten worse. I remember when physics, particle effects, etc., were being heavily pushed, but now you often get shinier graphics with a very rigid and noninteractive world to explore.

 

[BrawlMan]

with a very rigid and noninteractive world to explore.

Depends on who you're talking about. You are not wrong but there are those that get this right and plenty of others who don't. We see a lot more don't get it right with with either bad or limited environmental interactivity. Mainly in the AAA space, but Capcom, Platinum, From Software, Nintendo, and a few others I do, know what they're doing or get this right. I still see more get it right than wrong in the indie and AA space.

 

[iamthemilkman]

Depends on who you're talking about. You are not wrong but there are those that get this right and plenty of others who don't. We see a lot more don't get it right with with either bad or limited environmental interactivity. Mainly in the AAA space, but Capcom, Platinum, From Software, Nintendo, and a few others i don't know what they're doing or get this right. I still see more get it right than wrong in the indie and AA space.

Look at Condemned: Criminal Origins, for example. If there's stuff lying on a shelf in that game, you can hit it and it'll react. In comparison, a lot of games nowadays don't allow even that limited amount of interactivity with the game world. A lot of people compared Avowed to older Bethesda games and the same was true for it. Speaking of Monolith Productions games, compare how interactive the environments of F.E.A.R. were compared to those in first-person shooters today. Not only that, look how advanced the A.I. acted compared to today's games.

Or look at something like Prey 2006 where the mirrors worked, you could flush toilets and use sinks, etc.

 

[Ikagura]

but now you often get shinier graphics with a very rigid and noninteractive world to explore.

I'm surprised how older games were fine adding physics and mirrors.

Speaking of Monolith Productions games, compare how interactive the environments of F.E.A.R. were compared to those in first-person shooters today. Not only that, look how advanced the A.I. acted compared to today's games.

I love how stuff can be thrown around. Same in Max Payne 2.

 

[BrawlMan]

Look at Condemned: Criminal Origins, for example. If there's stuff lying on a shelf in that game, you can hit it and it'll react. In comparison, a lot of games nowadays don't allow even that limited amount of interactivity with the game world. A lot of people compared Avowed to older Bethesda games and the same was true for it. Speaking of Monolith Productions games, compare how interactive the environments of F.E.A.R. were compared to those in first-person shooters today. Not only that, look how advanced the A.I. acted compared to today's games.

Or look at something like Prey 2006 where the mirrors worked, you could flush toilets and use sinks, etc.

It's ironic how a lot of the Doom inspired indie/AA games of today, Nu-Doom Trilogy itself, and even Doom³ have more way environmental activity than any COD/Gears/military clone shooter. Even games like Bulletstorm have more going on than COD, Gears, or nearly all of the other clones. Reminds me of this old review from Yahtzee. I never hated Doom³, but it was never my personal favorite. Doom 64 is better.

All of the crazy shit you can do in MadWorld! A Wii game from 2009.

 

[moonbits]

It takes a special kind of wizardry to have such levels of interactivity and simulations. I do miss it, while it adds little value to the gameplay loop I am an advocate of the little details and pursue it on my own projects.

I was watching this yesterday and I am still amazed this runs on 20 year old hardware.

We were lucky to have experienced this in our youths.