The Most Important RPG Never Mentioned

Eclipse14

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Hi. First time making one of these threads outside the Video & Streams category, as I noticed others post their own videos here.

I uploaded this yesterday and posted it in my profile. Admittedly, my video work is rather simple, as my resources are very thin, but I do try my best to make something interesting despite that. I'm sure a few regulars here can vouch for me.

Anyway, here's the video. If you like the work, feel free to check out these other threads to see what else I've shared to the site.
 
Watched the video and it's honestly pretty cool. Good to know about such important game
 
Now let's talk about the action JRPG that from first glance looks like the father of Zelda and Super Mario... well you'll see what I mean lol:

 
Subscribed
 
Watched the video and it's honestly pretty cool. Good to know about such important game
Thanks! It really is a shame that its existence has been almost completely forgotten about...though I can also see why it's become the case since all versions (excluding a European MSX release, which I couldn't get much more info about) was locked to Japan.
Now let's talk about the action JRPG that from first glance looks like the father of Zelda and Super Mario... well you'll see what I mean lol:

I'd argue Tower of Druaga, for that one. While it is indeed an influence to Zelda, Dragon Slayer's a bit more peculiar on the grounds of being the forerunner of what an Action RPG should be, whereas Zelda takes the more basic Adventure route (outside of II).
 
Its Metal Max . This game splitted off from fantasy and it worked so perfectly , even japan is still fearing to port it to the western countries . And with good reasons . Way too good franchise .
 
Its Metal Max . This game splitted off from fantasy and it worked so perfectly , even japan is still fearing to port it to the western countries . And with good reasons . Way too good franchise .
Unfortunately relatively to other RPGs Metal Max is a very underrated RPG series.

From outside it may be a "bad" JRPG version of Wasteland and Fallout, but in reality it's more like Mother series in a post-apocalyptic setting that has vehicular combat mechanics that's more like Front Mission's tank version + it can have Sims elements like you fill "your home" with furniture and all. However my favorite is the 3rd game, recent games kinda ruined the series for me with BS sense of pervertism. Yet I still like Metal Max Xeno Reborn over the original because they removed visual novel BS that goes nonsense, generic and pervert by focusing on the simple fan of upgrading your tank and all lol.

Perhaps what to like in Metal Max series in the context of JRPGs is how it's anti-Japanese anarchist series lol. In JRPGs world is innocent but what's not innocent is the one evil. In Metal Max everyone is evil but some are more evil lol. In JRPGs everyone is friendly, in Metal Max even your "companions" would wish you dead but they work with you for economical and whatnot gain lol. In JRPGs the goal of the game is being a good boi defeating the evil, in Metal Max it makes fun of the society and while it has an evil it's more about making your own living in the world. I also like the way Metal Max doesn't have the "innocent fool player character to control" that "your character is only strong with party" BS. Your character is okay and can survive alone. IMO overall I would prefer JRPGs to fundamentally be more like Metal Max but they still couldn't go outside of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy mentality.
 
Unfortunately relatively to other RPGs Metal Max is a very underrated RPG series.

From outside it may be a "bad" JRPG version of Wasteland and Fallout, but in reality it's more like Mother series in a post-apocalyptic setting that has vehicular combat mechanics that's more like Front Mission's tank version + it can have Sims elements like you fill "your home" with furniture and all. However my favorite is the 3rd game, recent games kinda ruined the series for me with BS sense of pervertism. Yet I still like Metal Max Xeno Reborn over the original because they removed visual novel BS that goes nonsense, generic and pervert by focusing on the simple fan of upgrading your tank and all lol.

Perhaps what to like in Metal Max series in the context of JRPGs is how it's anti-Japanese anarchist series lol. In JRPGs world is innocent but what's not innocent is the one evil. In Metal Max everyone is evil but some are more evil lol. In JRPGs everyone is friendly, in Metal Max even your "companions" would wish you dead but they work with you for economical and whatnot gain lol. In JRPGs the goal of the game is being a good boi defeating the evil, in Metal Max it makes fun of the society and while it has an evil it's more about making your own living in the world. I also like the way Metal Max doesn't have the "innocent fool player character to control" that "your character is only strong with party" BS. Your character is okay and can survive alone. IMO overall I would prefer JRPGs to fundamentally be more like Metal Max but they still couldn't go outside of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy mentality.
I wouldnt say Pervertism . They tried the idea of "extremly low birth-rate / almost no females in the world " topic which is a dirty and rather unsettling topic in all its aspects but one that needs moderation that it doesnt make the whole setting underwhelming and all about .

While i wouldnt mind it if it goes nuanced and not constantly in our faces which should underline the gameplay as its main-priority , Jrpgs have sadly the Visual-novel-syndrome baked in since the 2000s or even in the 90s . Instead having games that were less story-focused and more Setting-focused to have more player-agency , we get games that are way linear with a progression that is cool at first but often linear and unsignificant at worst .

Story-focused games have a place but the oversaturation and constant need of a story in a game devolved games into movies with barely gameplay in it and even that gameplay is tedious or just traveling from point A to point B with some combat sprinkled here and there .
And often those stories are absolutely attrocious or/and way too much in the way of the gameplay which kills the fun even more .
 
I wouldnt say Pervertism . They tried the idea of "extremly low birth-rate / almost no females in the world " topic which is a dirty and rather unsettling topic in all its aspects but one that needs moderation that it doesnt make the whole setting underwhelming and all about .

While i wouldnt mind it if it goes nuanced and not constantly in our faces which should underline the gameplay as its main-priority , Jrpgs have sadly the Visual-novel-syndrome baked in since the 2000s or even in the 90s . Instead having games that were less story-focused and more Setting-focused to have more player-agency , we get games that are way linear with a progression that is cool at first but often linear and unsignificant at worst .

Story-focused games have a place but the oversaturation and constant need of a story in a game devolved games into movies with barely gameplay in it and even that gameplay is tedious or just traveling from point A to point B with some combat sprinkled here and there .
And often those stories are absolutely attrocious or/and way too much in the way of the gameplay which kills the fun even more .
Well Japanese games tends to suffer from using characters in a way they focus on their digital drama instead of game having a story to begin with. It really seems like some Korean drama shit that there is a "theme" instead of a plot and whatever happens is just dramatic stuff happens to the characters. IDK much visual novels and animes but the pattern I see is all about Japanese culture established what society likes so they just use the same generic elements with different characters to make them enjoy the same shit. It's like how some cultures prefer romance and love triangles while others prefers supernatural events and actions lol. So this is the way why Japanese games either way has visual novel elements and some really exaggerate about it a lot lol.

Naturally this is a topic of what the whole culture is, yet especially for people who doesn't have such a personality, especially for me I'm amazed how much people can care about digital drama of a character that doesn't even exist. They are just made of 0s and 1s so making game only about characters doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention Japanese's understanding of RPG is not really even an "RPG". RPG is literally roleplaying games that indicate you gotta be able to roleplay as a character you wanna create or self-insert yourself to roleplay in the game world by making your decisions and having your own adventure... but then most of JRPGs are not roleplaying but having a fixed character and following a linear story that doesn't have decisions to make and whole the game is about mindless killing, looting and self improvement. This shit ain't RPG lol. Even multiple endings are not enough to make it RPG. Society really forgot what RPG is and they have no idea it came from a "game" of "what would you do if X had happened" questions people played to waste time and for lolz and then this idea eventually developed as tabletop RPGs. It's just Japanese people's understanding of RPG is just a video game genre they can comprehend that befits to their culture. At least they put illusion of dialogues that no matter what you choose it doesn't matter anyway lol.

So when we come to Metal Max, the series is right on track to be an RPG by going outside of generic JRPG elements, yet the series died without its full potential was realized. It would be really cool to play a real time action RPG version of Metal Max that's like Fallout New Vegas!!!! lolol
 
Well Japanese games tends to suffer from using characters in a way they focus on their digital drama instead of game having a story to begin with. It really seems like some Korean drama shit that there is a "theme" instead of a plot and whatever happens is just dramatic stuff happens to the characters. IDK much visual novels and animes but the pattern I see is all about Japanese culture established what society likes so they just use the same generic elements with different characters to make them enjoy the same shit. It's like how some cultures prefer romance and love triangles while others prefers supernatural events and actions lol. So this is the way why Japanese games either way has visual novel elements and some really exaggerate about it a lot lol.

Naturally this is a topic of what the whole culture is, yet especially for people who doesn't have such a personality, especially for me I'm amazed how much people can care about digital drama of a character that doesn't even exist. They are just made of 0s and 1s so making game only about characters doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention Japanese's understanding of RPG is not really even an "RPG". RPG is literally roleplaying games that indicate you gotta be able to roleplay as a character you wanna create or self-insert yourself to roleplay in the game world by making your decisions and having your own adventure... but then most of JRPGs are not roleplaying but having a fixed character and following a linear story that doesn't have decisions to make and whole the game is about mindless killing, looting and self improvement. This shit ain't RPG lol. Even multiple endings are not enough to make it RPG. Society really forgot what RPG is and they have no idea it came from a "game" of "what would you do if X had happened" questions people played to waste time and for lolz and then this idea eventually developed as tabletop RPGs. It's just Japanese people's understanding of RPG is just a video game genre they can comprehend that befits to their culture. At least they put illusion of dialogues that no matter what you choose it doesn't matter anyway lol.

So when we come to Metal Max, the series is right on track to be an RPG by going outside of generic JRPG elements, yet the series died without its full potential was realized. It would be really cool to play a real time action RPG version of Metal Max that's like Fallout New Vegas!!!! lolol
Exactly ! You spoke it perfectly to the point about RPGs and what nowaday is happening to it .

And i fully agree on you about Metal max overall . I noticed it with Metal Max 2 reload which even from its artstyle took a huge change that doesnt seem so grounded anymore even with its over-the-top moments and rather more generic anime-esque style that lacks its more biting approach . Thats why i wait for Metal Max 2s Snes game to be translated . But im happy to hear that Metal Max 3 is still Metal Max in its heart.

But my criticism about story-focus in games is still on point even for western games .

For example Dragon Age :
I tried so many times to get into but this game bounces me off so often because the story was way too often in the way and the character interactions was mandatory to play efficiently and it doesnt come to me as natural but rather forced .
Is the game bad ? No . But can this game be compared to Baldurs Gate 1 or Temple of elemental Evil ? No , not even close .

And back then i heard so many times from a huge quantity of people about " I play games for the story " which is okay but if i tell them that i would like to see games more setting-driven and not story-focused RPGs , they either say that RPGs are depended and can only work with a story (which is not true) or throw a hissy-fit and explain me this genre is more about story-telling and no activity whatsoever . And it was common among gamers which baffled me still to this day.
 
Exactly ! You spoke it perfectly to the point about RPGs and what nowaday is happening to it .

And i fully agree on you about Metal max overall . I noticed it with Metal Max 2 reload which even from its artstyle took a huge change that doesnt seem so grounded anymore even with its over-the-top moments and rather more generic anime-esque style that lacks its more biting approach . Thats why i wait for Metal Max 2s Snes game to be translated . But im happy to hear that Metal Max 3 is still Metal Max in its heart.

But my criticism about story-focus in games is still on point even for western games .

For example Dragon Age :
I tried so many times to get into but this game bounces me off so often because the story was way too often in the way and the character interactions was mandatory to play efficiently and it doesnt come to me as natural but rather forced .
Is the game bad ? No . But can this game be compared to Baldurs Gate 1 or Temple of elemental Evil ? No , not even close .

And back then i heard so many times from a huge quantity of people about " I play games for the story " which is okay but if i tell them that i would like to see games more setting-driven and not story-focused RPGs , they either say that RPGs are depended and can only work with a story (which is not true) or throw a hissy-fit and explain me this genre is more about story-telling and no activity whatsoever . And it was common among gamers which baffled me still to this day.
Well western RPGs started by tabletop RPG roots but had to be "pseudo-RPGs" that mostly had the "action adventure aspect" of RPGs due to technical limitations. In a sense they were no "RPG", they were just "dungeon crawlers" or what we can say "rogue-likes". You had ways to upgrade your character but the game was mostly about attacking and surviving. In a way it's like more fancy Contra lol.

When technology developed enough it was when tabletop RPGs could be digitalized to produce real deal RPG games. Some games managed to make it happen. For example Deus Ex 1 is a good example for how an RPG should be despite it's no RPG. In the context of western RPGs we only have few examples to give like Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Fallout New Vegas. Why?: Because these games are like digital version of "choose your adventure" books that's how tabletop RPGs are.

However after Bioware pseudo-RPGs was a success thanks to Star Wars Kotor 1 it was when western RPGs stopped being an RPG. They became more about fancy dating simulators. And then their mistake was integrating JRPGs as if they are good like thus it would improve RPG genre. It had the opposite effect. They even added JRPG elements into Assassin's Creed and thus they ruined gaming altogether. Now games are mix of genres in a pseudo way so hard they have no identity and they don't even use how video game genres supposed to be from the start. They only care to develop a generic game to sell by using old formulas that "worked" before.

As a result genre of games are fucked and not properly used. For example a game naturally can be open world when the content you added and gameplay style you developed make you force to develop the game as open world. For example when you develop a game like Witcher 3 it naturally has to be like open world. However now they believe open world should be "empty map that has nothing" so from the start it has no point to be open world. When people say "me like open world" video game companies doesn't understand what actually people want. They think open world is "no loading screen, too big game map and you even drive a car" and then they add Ubisoft side content BS as if this is open world element and then they produce BS games like Mad Max and Rage 2. While these games fun as action games yet they really didn't have to be open world because they lack the need and content. I can even say the same for Death Stranding lol.

So now "what is RPG" reduced to non-RPG elements:

1) Inventory system: Dude a FPS game called Zero Tolerance had it too but it doesn't make it RPG.

2) Inventory management: Again a FPS game called System Shock has inventory management but it's not an RPG.

2) Level system: Power-up system was in many games, however its itself is not related to role-playing at all. It's more like a fancier action system.

3) Dating and building relationships: This is rather a life simulation aspect lol.

5) Dialogue options: GTA SA has it but it doesn't make it RPG. Existence of dialogue options are not part of RPGs, however what makes RPG a RPG is the way any kind of choice is a decision and decisions changes outcomes. To get the outcome you want you have to make choices. This is what video game companies doesn't care. In this context naturally Cyberpunk 2077 is not an RPG. For example Baldur's Gate 3 is so glorified as "real RPG" but it's not an RPG too because you are not given sandbox options for player decision to make to play the game in whatever way you want. This will be explained below.

6) Sandbox aspect: Unless its about decisions to make to change outcomes of situations it's not an RPG element. Whole RPG is about the sandbox idea that you are given a whole world that allow you to make your own decision anytime you want to play the game in your own way. In this context this is why decisions matters and how your actions changes outcomes because world gotta be reactive.

For example you can spend your time only cooking in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

You can spend your whole time being a merchant in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

You can spend your whole time being a thief in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

So here we have decisions in the context of sandbox and that's actually what RPG is about but there is one important thing that's must in an RPG: Hell GTA San Andreas is more closer to be an RPG but why it's not an RPG? You cannot create your own character. If you could GTA SA would be one of the best RPG lolol.

7) Open world: An RPG doesn't have to be open world.

8) Skills and stats: This is tricky but nope, an RPG doesn't have to have skills and stats. RPG is more about having a class and therefore having certain pros and cons, which is where stat idea comes from for RPGs but it's not really a modern understanding of stats we see in games. However class idea is just a starting point of your characters' background. It's more like "your character had a homeless life so he is better at surviving against hunger and cold" and "your character had a rich happy life so he will be more sensitive to harsh conditions of life!!!" so there is a pros and cons of your character because of their background.

In the end mostly RPGs were not a RPG to begin with most of the time, but they are more away from RPGs anymore. IDK they should invent a new name for this pseudo-genre game and I would call them "action simulators" instead even if it's turn-based game because whole game is more about action because you do stuff and its simulator aspect comes from how detailed gameplay is for simple action games and then there is another simulation idea in terms of dating sim elements and open world lol.
 
Last edited:
Well western RPGs started by tabletop RPG roots but had to be "pseudo-RPGs" that mostly had the "action adventure aspect" of RPGs due to technical limitations. In a sense they were no "RPG", they were just "dungeon crawlers" or what we can say "rogue-likes". You had ways to upgrade your character but the game was mostly about attacking and surviving. In a way it's like more fancy Contra lol.

When technology developed enough it was when tabletop RPGs could be digitalized to produce real deal RPG games. Some games managed to make it happen. For example Deus Ex 1 is a good example for how an RPG should be despite it's no RPG. In the context of western RPGs we only have few examples to give like Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Fallout New Vegas. Why?: Because these games are like digital version of "choose your adventure" books that's how tabletop RPGs are.

However after Bioware pseudo-RPGs was a success thanks to Star Wars Kotor 1 it was when western RPGs stopped being an RPG. They became more about fancy dating simulators. And then their mistake was integrating JRPGs as if they are good like thus it would improve RPG genre. It had the opposite effect. They even added JRPG elements into Assassin's Creed and thus they ruined gaming altogether. Now games are mix of genres in a pseudo way so hard they have no identity and they don't even use how video game genres supposed to be from the start. They only care to develop a generic game to sell by using old formulas that "worked" before.

As a result genre of games are fucked and not properly used. For example a game naturally can be open world when the content you added and gameplay style you developed make you force to develop the game as open world. For example when you develop a game like Witcher 3 it naturally has to be like open world. However now they believe open world should be "empty map that has nothing" so from the start it has no point to be open world. When people say "me like open world" video game companies doesn't understand what actually people want. They think open world is "no loading screen, too big game map and you even drive a car" and then they add Ubisoft side content BS as if this is open world element and then they produce BS games like Mad Max and Rage 2. While these games fun as action games yet they really didn't have to be open world because they lack the need and content. I can even say the same for Death Stranding lol.

So now "what is RPG" reduced to non-RPG elements:

1) Inventory system: Dude a FPS game called Zero Tolerance had it too but it doesn't make it RPG.

2) Inventory management: Again a FPS game called System Shock has inventory management but it's not an RPG.

2) Level system: Power-up system was in many games, however its itself is not related to role-playing at all. It's more like a fancier action system.

3) Dating and building relationships: This is rather a life simulation aspect lol.

5) Dialogue options: GTA SA has it but it doesn't make it RPG. Existence of dialogue options are not part of RPGs, however what makes RPG a RPG is the way any kind of choice is a decision and decisions changes outcomes. To get the outcome you want you have to make choices. This is what video game companies doesn't care. In this context naturally Cyberpunk 2077 is not an RPG. For example Baldur's Gate 3 is so glorified as "real RPG" but it's not an RPG too because you are not given sandbox options for player decision to make to play the game in whatever way you want. This will be explained below.

6) Sandbox aspect: Unless its about decisions to make to change outcomes of situations it's not an RPG element. Whole RPG is about the sandbox idea that you are given a whole world that allow you to make your own decision anytime you want to play the game in your own way. In this context this is why decisions matters and how your actions changes outcomes because world gotta be reactive.

For example you can spend your time only cooking in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

You can spend your whole time being a merchant in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

You can spend your whole time being a thief in Fallout New Vegas. You can't in Baldur's Gate 3.

So here we have decisions in the context of sandbox and that's actually what RPG is about but there is one important thing that's must in an RPG: Hell GTA San Andreas is more closer to be an RPG but why it's not an RPG? You cannot create your own character. If you could GTA SA would be one of the best RPG lolol.

7) Open world: An RPG doesn't have to be open world.

8) Skills and stats: This is tricky but nope, an RPG doesn't have to have skills and stats. RPG is more about having a class and therefore having certain pros and cons, which is where stat idea comes from for RPGs but it's not really a modern understanding of stats we see in games. However class idea is just a starting point of your characters' background. It's more like "your character had a homeless life so he is better at surviving against hunger and cold" and "your character had a rich happy life so he will be more sensitive to harsh conditions of life!!!" so there is a pros and cons of your character because of their background.

In the end mostly RPGs were not a RPG to begin with most of the time, but they are more away from RPGs anymore. IDK they should invent a new name for this pseudo-genre game and I would call them "action simulators" instead even if it's turn-based game because whole game is more about action because you do stuff and its simulator aspect comes from how detailed gameplay is for simple action games and then there is another simulation idea in terms of dating sim elements and open world lol.
On point . Nothing to add there .
 

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