The Lessons & Legacy Of Dune II

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

Thanks to the absolute miracle of the internet (and specially because of the tireless, pioneering work of sites like Home Of The Underdogs), I got to try out a ton of games that I simply wouldn't have been able to play "normally" back when they were initially released due to prices, availability and language barriers.

It's hard for me not to look back on the countless hours I had spent exploring the worlds of classics like The Secret Of Monkey Island and Doom with anything other than pure, genuine joy -- it really was that good a time and that memorable an experience (trust me, wouldn't be here without it!).

However, there's one game that always seems to come to mind whenever I remember those frantic, pixelated times: Dune II.

Dune II was the pioneering RTS title, a game so influential that few others have dared straying from the trail it so utterly blazed in the decades following its 1992 release. If you are playing an RTS today, chances are you are playing a refinement of its formula.

But the thing I always remember about my time with it weren't its greatest ideas nor its necessary blunders (FUCK having to put down a foundation for your buildings, even if the plot sort of explained it) but the true thing that showed its age like no other: its 25 unit limit.

There's absolutely no doubt that the guys at Westwood were wizards, but even they knew that they couldn't really trust a 386 to suddenly display huge battles with the rhythm and intensity that players would want to have them after being handed the tools to do so, so they chose to let us prioritize and strategize rather than sending us on our merry, human wave assault way.

It is true that the (often sidelined) hex editing community had this fixed soon and players could then have up to 255 guys to wreck face with, but I find it remarkable that Westwood stuck to that formula even after those hardware and processing issues were long left behind, keeping a limit (although, not as brutal) on Dune 2000, which was released in 1998.

All of this is to ask: do you think RTS games would be better if such a limit would have been seen as a key takeaway from the Dune II experience like so many of its other ideas were? I go back-and-forth on that a lot.

 

[Zerpina]

Never played Dune 1 or 2, and I vaguely remember the movies. It's been well over twenty years since I saw them with a friend. But very cool memory, waffles, hun.

 

[diet_orange]

The Genesis version is just as amazing and completely and utterly addictive

Loaded that sucker up on my Bittboy Pocket Go and think I sunk in at least an hour and a half without a single thought. Fairly easy to get the hang of after extensively playing C&C Remastered, I don't even think I needed to use the tutorial

 

[LiberoVulpesLiberoVulpes's icon]

But Dune Messiah sucks, oh wait, you mean the game.

Also, just play the better version:

Dune Legacy - Free Dune II Remake

Free open-source remake of the classic 1992 RTS game Dune II. Download for Windows, macOS, and Linux. Features multiplayer, HD graphics, and modern controls.

dunelegacy.com

As for the limitation, it depends, tight unit limitations can work well on a no build RTS, something like Nexus: The Jupiter Incident which uses a point system that you spent on units before going into the mission, the Codename Panzers Series uses a similar system, it also works very well on Nebulous Fleet Command (but its mostly to balance the multiplayer).

Dawn of War 2 takes has a very low unit count for you, but your units are slight above average hero units.

There is also the Myth series which does it, and its more about positioning and abusing the physics engine.

Its more of a different approach, since tight unit limitations simply don't work on most RTS which demand a proper eco setup (AoE, Starcraft, Cossacks, etc).

But, it worked for Battlezone 1998, since it actually necessitated limitations, since it would be far too unruly with too many units.

I am personally more partial towards a point system rather than a set hard limit on units, since its common in wargames (tactical ones mostly) as well.

 

[NotReallyHere]

While I never got to play Dune II proper, I did spend a lot of time with the Sega version, Battle for Arrakis. Glad to see others here have had a similar experience

I never liked the foundation system for buildings, either, but I do like how later games paid homage to this in subtle ways. The Creep in StarCraft comes to mind, immediately. And even Command & Conquer wouldn't let you place base buildings too far apart from each other, unless it was something like a guard tower or a pillbox.

The unit limit never really bothered me, either, as it reminded me that the experience was still a game at heart! There had to be some sort of rules and limitations in place. It would be like playing Chess, but wanting to use 40 Knights. Certain things just have to be kept in balance in order to have a fair game. And it's up to the player to manage how they want to balance their forces to reflect this.

Any game with a resource system kind of borrows this mindset, too. There's only so much Tiberium to go around, after all! Do you spend it on buildings or units? What kind of units? Tons of cheap units (ME!!) or fewer, larger units?

If nothing else, the resource / unit management - and their inherent limitations - is probably the biggest shared influence of the Dune games. But, again, I would also argue that RTS games wouldn't really be "games" without it

 

[RageBurner]

Limits are a good thing, within reason, lest things devolve into a deathball vs deathball situation and actual strategy, maneuvering and unit mixing goes out of the window. The PC version of Dune 2 I didn't play much, but I remember renting the Mega Drive version on occasion, although I had no idea what I was doing.

RTS is kinda-sorta experiencing a resurgence right now, it's nice to see; I tend to prefer those that are more offbeat and unique.

 

[Stingy Perry Stingy Perry]

Unit limits on RTS? Absolutely yes! Why? Mainly for more tactical depth purposes for me. Limitations often makes us think outside the box. Especially if the game is centered on defending and expanding your turf and the main goal is eliminating the competition. It would definitely challenge your decision making as you what kind of structures and units would give me the edge against the opposition.

Dune 2 is my entry to the RTS genre and for it’s really an important title as of Doom is to fps.

 

[RageBurner]

Unit limits on RTS? Absolutely yes! Why? Mainly for more tactical depth purposes for me. Limitations often makes us think outside the box. Especially if the game is centered on defending and expanding your turf and the main goal is eliminating the competition. It would definitely challenge your decision making as you what kind of structures and units would give me the edge against the opposition.

Exactly! good RTSes are a bit of a dance, if you ask me, something like a large scale chess match.

Dune 2 is my entry to the RTS genre and for it’s really an important title as of Doom is to fps.

That's an excellent way to put it, it's very much seminal in both cases.

 

[beefbowl]

But Dune Messiah sucks

Absolute L take. Dune Messiah is a great condensed experience expanding upon the first book. It's a great bridge between Dune and Children of Dune. It may be my favorite from the first trilogy honestly. That said, I didn't play the RTS games. planning to do it in 2026.

 

[Tortuga]

Always liked old Dune rts, because of Dune 2000 and Emperor battle for dune i even watched Lynch's dune and read original book

Many of those limitations make sense considering the time game was made, because of hardware limits or simply since those guys was the first.
You can also see how things evolve in Warcraft 1, instead of selecting only 1 unit you can select whopping 4, there is no foundation but you do need to build roads etc.