The deepest fighting game series?

[TechnologicalMF]

This thread isn't about which FG series is the most competitive mind you, but rather what is the deepest.
To define depth, let us go with: the complexity and strategic possibilities that emerge from the game’s mechanics, interactions, and decision-making. A deep fighting game provides layers of mastery beyond surface-level gameplay, rewarding players who invest time into learning advanced techniques, matchups, and mind games.

For me between Tekken, VF and Guilty Gear

 

[DunkeyKong]

Maybe Tekken, even the moves count alone is crazy to me

 

[TechnologicalMF]

Maybe Tekken, even the moves count alone is crazy to me
View attachment 39968

Yeah, it really is a lot.
But then also you can kind of make the argument that there are only around 2 dozen truly optimal moves, but yes the sheer weight of knowing them and their frame data along with so many other things like korean backdash (although it is a bit nerfed in 8) is a lot, one thing with Tekken for me is that it kind of has a more universal gameplay style for a lot of the characters.

Don't get me wrong there is large variety still, but you don't have the crazy meter mechanics and just completely different gameplay styles something like BlazBlue/Guilty Gear (especially the older ones offer)

 

[Gorse]

Maybe Tekken, even the moves count alone is crazy to me
View attachment 39968

Wh... Bu... In one game? You can do 180 individual moves with a single character in the same round of combat, in the same game? How does that even work with a standard controller layout!?

 

[TechnologicalMF]

Wh... Bu... In one game? You can do 180 individual moves with a single character in the same round of combat, in the same game? How does that even work with a standard controller layout!?

Basically, Tekken uses this scheme where each face button corresponds to a limb. Square = left punch, triangle = right punch, X = left kick and circle = right kick.

Then, you build up from that with a ton of different ways of combining them. So for example, square-triangle-square is considered a move, then there are some where you go up-forward + square etc.
Tekken uses simpler inputs to get into the meat of the game faster and is a bit button mashy at the start. This is why casually it is enjoyed a lot

 

[Omegapunch's iconOmegapunch]

In terms of lore?
Definitely Guilty Gear and Blazblue.

 

[DunkeyKong]

Yeah, it really is a lot.
But then also you can kind of make the argument that there are only around 2 dozen truly optimal moves, but yes the sheer weight of knowing them and their frame data along with so many other things like korean backdash (although it is a bit nerfed in 8) is a lot, one thing with Tekken for me is that it kind of has a more universal gameplay style for a lot of the characters.

Don't get me wrong there is large variety still, but you don't have the crazy meter mechanics and just completely different gameplay styles something like BlazBlue/Guilty Gear (especially the older ones offer)

Right, of course. Other franchise have more than Tekken in terms of mechanics and gameplay style. It was still pretty crazy to see the amounts of moves count though

Wh... Bu... In one game? You can do 180 individual moves with a single character in the same round of combat, in the same game? How does that even work with a standard controller layout!?

Probably possible with this

 

[fake-kun]

The deepest, you say? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[TechnologicalMF]

There is also the whole discussion of strings vs combos
Basically, square-triangle-circle is a string of one of the characters and if you then went db-triangle-triangle-X to finish off that move it would be a combo.

Basically combos are combinations of strings and there are quite a few strings in the movelists but as you can see they aren't terribly hard to input. This is why there are even arguments Tekken is bloated

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:53 PM

In terms of lore?
Definitely Guilty Gear and Blazblue.

Nah just gameplay depth, though yeah they have crazy deep and unironically good lore for FGs.
BlazBlue is literally a VN at times though I will say, I am not too familiar with the BB series

 

[Asian girls lover]

Everyone but Tekken and Soul Calibur, the only two I could play thank to Jun, the easiest character to use in the first one, and Mitsurugi in the second one. Some of the other have combos too hard to do, espeically the anime style ones.

 

[TechnologicalMF]

Everyone but Tekken and Soul Calibur, the only two I could play thank to Jun, the easiest character to use in the first one, and Mitsurugi in the second one. Some of the other have combos too hard to do, espeically the anime style ones.

Yeah airdashers are hard as hell and have huge respect to anyone who plays them to the highest levels

Post automatically merged: Today at 3:56 PM

The deepest, you say? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[diapered]

Guilty Gear? But my opinion doesn't really matter, I am notoriously bad at fighting games, as I have said before ;_; I did try to get into X2 because you could play online, and I tried to learn it and there is a lot that comes down to just a few frames, but that is probably true for the others >_>

Thread made me want to boot up x2 and play a little. Doing some training mode, to see if it comes back to me. Jam a cute, CUTE!!1!!1!

 

[moonbits]

I'd say anime fighters like Guilty Gear and Melty Blood are complex just because of their whacky nonsensical nature and characters.

 

[TechnologicalMF]

Guilty Gear? But my opinion doesn't really matter, I am notoriously bad at fighting games, as I have said before ;_; I did try to get into X2 because you could play online, and I tried to learn it and there is a lot that comes down to just a few frames, but that is probably true for the others >_>

Thread made me want to boot up x2 and play a little. Doing some training mode, to see if it comes back to me. Jam a cute, CUTE!!1!!1!
View attachment 39977

Yeah you basically tried to get into basically the deepest era of GG games lol
Also yes, a lot does come down to a few frames but there is also something important to remember in FGs. While there are reflexes, it is more so a game of prediction.

The moves in FGs are literally too fast for reaction a lot of the time and it comes down to predicting and knowing your opponent well. This is where frame data helps a lot and the whole concept of reading an opponent and why they are often played best to 3 or best to 5 etc. because you just need time to adapt and have a proper battle. 1 match means nothing.

 

[Bakuma1997]

I want to be outside the box and mention: Smash Bros

Only two buttons, no weird combinations to make specials, and kiddy game characters with a curve that Bowlboy could tackle...then you get to competitive

my first time watching a match on Youtube suddendly i saw Fox pulling Enrico Pucci levels of super fast BS (The match in question)

and my jaw dropped, i get melee being broken and giving camp for that is a meme, but i researched more PVP and i noticed a lot of stuff and my mind was...
What the (Redacted) is a Wavedash?
Why you play in the worst stages?
why are you holding the joystick like that? (That sounded weird)
WHY NOBODY IS GRABBING THE SMASH BALL?

i researched and those in fact, are canon techniques on Smash, i have to say... that's a lot for a simple crossover game

 

[DunkeyKong]

I want to be outside the box and mention: Smash Bros

Only two buttons, no weird combinations to make specials, and kiddy game characters with a curve that Bowlboy could tackle...then you get to competitive

my first time watching a match on Youtube suddendly i saw Fox pulling Enrico Pucci levels of super fast BS (The match in question)

and my jaw dropped, i get melee being broken and giving camp for that is a meme, but i researched more PVP and i noticed a lot of stuff and my mind was...
What the (Redacted) is a Wavedash?
Why you play in the worst stages?
why are you holding the joystick like that? (That sounded weird)
WHY NOBODY IS GRABBING THE SMASH BALL?

i researched and those in fact, are canon techniques on Smash, i have to say... that's a lot for a simple crossover game

That's the usual Smash Bros matches lmao, especially in melee

It felt like this

 

[Prism_Red]

Guilty Gear, in my opinion.

Let's put it this way, think of fighting game as a complex form of rock-paper-scissor. Tekken, despite having the most move varieties is pretty much the same, you got offensive and defensive option, be it guarding, side step, etc.

Guilty Gear while is pretty much the same on paper, differs heavily in practice. For defensive options alone, you got to count character weight, also it has multiple types of blocks, there is Dead Angle, Slashback, and Xrd exclusively has Blitz all these defensive properties has it's own uses that, if not used properly, will end up putting you at the disadvantage.

Tension meter, while it's pretty much a super meter just like any other fighting games, plays differently since a lot of non-offensive maneuvers costs Tension meter as well. Some characters also have unique properties, like Potemkin who doesn't have an airdash, or Robo-Ky with his special overheat meter. Going back to my original rock-paper-scissor argument, in Guilty Gear, sometimes you play rock-paper-gun, other times you play nuke-paper-scissor.

To put it simply, trying to understand Guilty Gear mechanic is a bit of a headache compared to other fighting game series.

 

[Omegapunch's iconOmegapunch]

The deepest, you say? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[TechnologicalMF]

I want to be outside the box and mention: Smash Bros

Only two buttons, no weird combinations to make specials, and kiddy game characters with a curve that Bowlboy could tackle...then you get to competitive

my first time watching a match on Youtube suddendly i saw Fox pulling Enrico Pucci levels of super fast BS (The match in question)

and my jaw dropped, i get melee being broken and giving camp for that is a meme, but i researched more PVP and i noticed a lot of stuff and my mind was...
What the (Redacted) is a Wavedash?
Why you play in the worst stages?
why are you holding the joystick like that? (That sounded weird)
WHY NOBODY IS GRABBING THE SMASH BALL?

i researched and those in fact, are canon techniques on Smash, i have to say... that's a lot for a simple crossover game

You're 100% right, I don't discriminate with Smash Bros at all and have now added it as an option too
I have heard of it being described as the Starcraft of FGs jokingly and while I am not the most knowledgeable on it, I am familiar with how intense it is

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:14 PM

I'd say anime fighters like Guilty Gear and Melty Blood are complex just because of their whacky nonsensical nature and characters.

I have not found anything that is nearly as satisfying as Melty Blood: Actress Again

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:16 PM

View attachment 39988

 

[TheDuke_11037]

I would say Tekken, mostly because of the hard ass movement, Korean backdashes are actually insane to do. Maybe it's a skill issue but I can't wrap my head around the 3ds movement in it. A lot of people would say it's because of how many moves there are, but you don't have to really remember all of them. They either flow into each other or are so trash and minus that you literally will never use it.

Guilty Gear would be my runner up for it, at least the earlier titles. Strive has depth but compared to previous entries it's as shallow as a kiddy pool. I can't speak much for xrd other than what my friends tell me about it as I don't play. Although I DO play acr, and that one is painnnnfull at times. The movement, combos, RC, Burst. I remember going through the wiki and my head exploding.

 

[Prism_Red]

A lot of people would say it's because of how many moves there are, but you don't have to really remember all of them. They either flow into each other or are so trash and minus that you literally will never use it.

Believe me, I won tourneys before and I only use like 10 to 15 moves at most. You really don't have to remember all of it.
As usual, my fighting game mantra, right tools for right situation.

 

[TechnologicalMF]

I would say Tekken, mostly because of the hard ass movement, Korean backdashes are actually insane to do. Maybe it's a skill issue but I can't wrap my head around the 3ds movement in it. A lot of people would say it's because of how many moves there are, but you don't have to really remember all of them. They either flow into each other or are so trash and minus that you literally will never use it.

Guilty Gear would be my runner up for it, at least the earlier titles. Strive has depth but compared to previous entries it's as shallow as a kiddy pool. I can't speak much for xrd other than what my friends tell me about it as I don't play. Although I DO play acr, and that one is painnnnfull at times. The movement, combos, RC, Burst. I remember going through the wiki and my head exploding.

Yeah I kinda feel similar for the most part.
I am really curious how that new Virtua Fighter they are making will turn out

Post automatically merged: Today at 4:27 PM

Guilty Gear, in my opinion.

Let's put it this way, think of fighting game as a complex form of rock-paper-scissor. Tekken, despite having the most move varieties is pretty much the same, you got offensive and defensive option, be it guarding, side step, etc.

Ah. the good old days when side-stepping actually worked well lol
Seriously I really hope they rebalance the tracking for some of those fucking moves because it is getting ridiculous the amount of shit you can't sidestep or can in really specific conditions.
It is not a great way to go about balancing at all imo

Apart from that yeah, I really am convinced Guilty Gear and BlazBlue are around as crazy as you get in FGs (from the ones I've played) then Melty Blood: Actress Again

So why I count MB as a bit less complex is while the movement is crazy and all that, I feel the gameplay is a little bit too universal and it feels a bit like Tekken to me in that sense

 

[TheDuke_11037]

As usual, my fighting game mantra, right tools for right situation.

I feel like a lot of people should internalize this. They look at all of the Tech and moves then try to apply all of it into one round! You should only use what you need, keep it simple.

Yeah I kinda feel similar for the most part.
I am really curious how that new Virtua Fighter they are making will turn out

DAMNNN I forgot about that trailer(?) they showed at CES. I was already excited about 5 REVO getting released.

 

[diapered]

Everyone but Tekken and Soul Calibur, the only two I could play thank to Jun, the easiest character to use in the first one, and Mitsurugi in the second one. Some of the other have combos too hard to do, espeically the anime style ones.

I like to use Ivy in the second one because uh <_< uhhh >_>;;

As you can see, the short hop foot stab is a good/effective move. No other reason...

 

[DunkeyKong]

I like to use Ivy in the second one because uh <_< uhhh >_>;;
View attachment 39997
As you can see, the short hop foot stab is a good/effective move. No other reason...