Talking Point #7 Remake or Re-meh? What’s Your Stance?

Remakes, what are your thoughts on them? Are they a great excuse to revisit a classic you once loved? Are they different means of re-exploring old concepts through new lens, a different interpretation that has a right to exist? Do you feel it doesn’t matter if we get remakes so long as the original versions are still readily available and easy to access or do you believe the very concept of a remake is inherently flawed, that art is just lighting in a bottle that can’t be re-captured?

None of these questions are rhetorical! I would genuinely love to hear where you stand, as I believe all these different points of view are completely valid, and offer interesting anecdotes to what’s essentially a broad topic that’s only getting broader by each year.

We won’t be covering this super extensively. Considering the “Talking Point” series is meant to be a casual series of articles, we will merely sample a few games here, and it obviously goes without saying we won’t feature anything this author hasn’t played! Sorry, Intergrade fans! Maybe next time when I get a Switch 2 haha. With that said, onto our first subject.

Re-meh: N.Sane Trilogy​

​

True to my writing’s spirit, you can’t escape my nuclear takes, but I find the Vicarious Visions’ take on the classic Australian ‘coot to be rather unplayable. Now I get this sounds like hyperbole coming from the same sociopath who loves Wrath of Cortex, and I do! I just don’t love insane inconsistencies, internal inconsistencies, at that.

Oh goodie, another physics discourse about a cartoon platforming mascot, where have I seen that before? Yeah, yeah, we’ve all been through this song and dance. Frankly, any self-respecting platforming fan worth their salt needs to complain about physics every now and again, but I haven’t actually seen that much discussion surrounding the N.Sane Trilogy’s physics outside of small circles or just mentioned in passing. Or, worst case scenario, mentioned as something “you get used to”.

*Shudders*, low standards, the horror! But all the lethal sarcasm aside, I do understand this. Having less convenient access to the PSX originals while having the remakes on your system thanks to GamePass sounds like a win-win at first, especially if 15 something years ago was the last time you touched those ancient relics (pun intended), but I assure you, distant time or not, I still felt the physics were off, even if I didn’t know why at first.

We sadly run into the classic “it’s hard to explain this without playing it yourself”, so you will need to take everything said with a pinch of salt. But then again, that’s the attitude you should have on the internet anyways, so that’s a moot point.

Now while I do understand the need to homogenize all three games and am perfectly fine with the concept so long as the physics behave consistently, they unfortunately don’t. Again, do understand this comes from someone who loves Wrath of Cortex, Twinsanity, The Huge Adventure and N.Trance. I am the last person to be close-minded about this. But those games only require a modest amount of investment to learn their ins and outs, their perceived skill-floor isn’t that high. But I feel you must give up your soul to find every little tiny thing you should avoid to have the illusion of a smooth experience in the remakes.

As stated, physics bias does not exist in my bones, rather, the remakes just feel unpolished. I lost count of jumps and mis-jumps that just felt “off”. They weren’t me not getting used to the controls, I replayed these remakes more than I care to admit. Rather, it was weird hit-boxes that felt wrong.

Wait a minute, janky hitboxes? So THIS is Dark Souls after all!

Re-AWESOME: Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster​

I’m a massive Dead Rising fan, playing Case Zero was one of the best nights of my life, Chuck Greene was love at first sight and a true role model all of us should aspire to be, and Dead Rising 3 was just pure, unfiltered fun. The original Dead Rising that released in 2006 is not exempt from this praise, in fact, it deserves nuclear levels of it. But we’re here to discuss its wonderful remake, which is a true testament to how Sandbox games live and die by their QoL features, and Deluxe Remaster is no slouch there.


Changes ranging from the Real Mega Buster looking much more beautiful than ever with the enhanced particle effects and shinier laser, the time speed-up, improved survivor AI, auto-save (yes, it wasn’t in the original!) and just so much more stuff. This was even my first time getting the infamous Saint achievement, what a wild ride it was!

Do you have any remakes you like? Remakes you wish never existed? Please do share!

Also, quick announcement. Everyone is now welcome to suggest the next topic for the “Talking Point” series article, all you need to do is write down a comment with your suggestion and I’ll consider it! Thanks for reading!

 

[Weljon]

View attachment 60439​

Remakes, what are your thoughts on them? Are they a great excuse to revisit a classic you once loved? Are they different means of re-exploring old concepts through new lens, a different interpretation that has a right to exist? Do you feel it doesn’t matter if we get remakes so long as the original versions are still readily available and easy to access or do you believe the very concept of a remake is inherently flawed, that art is just lighting in a bottle that can’t be re-captured?

None of these questions are rhetorical! I would genuinely love to hear where you stand, as I believe all these different points of view are completely valid, and offer interesting anecdotes to what’s essentially a broad topic that’s only getting broader by each year.

We won’t be covering this super extensively. Considering the “Talking Point” series is meant to be a casual series of articles, we will merely sample a few games here, and it obviously goes without saying we won’t feature anything this author hasn’t played! Sorry, Intergrade fans! Maybe next time when I get a Switch 2 haha. With that said, onto our first subject.

Re-meh: N.Sane Trilogy​

View attachment 60438
​

True to my writing’s spirit, you can’t escape my nuclear takes, but I find the Vicarious Visions’ take on the classic Australian ‘coot to be rather unplayable. Now I get this sounds like hyperbole coming from the same sociopath who loves Wrath of Cortex, and I do! I just don’t love insane inconsistencies, internal inconsistencies, at that.

Oh goodie, another physics discourse about a cartoon platforming mascot, where have I seen that before? Yeah, yeah, we’ve all been through this song and dance. Frankly, any self-respecting platforming fan worth their salt needs to complain about physics every now and again, but I haven’t actually seen that much discussion surrounding the N.Sane Trilogy’s physics outside of small circles or just mentioned in passing. Or, worst case scenario, mentioned as something “you get used to”.

*Shudders*, low standards, the horror! But all the lethal sarcasm aside, I do understand this. Having less convenient access to the PSX originals while having the remakes on your system thanks to GamePass sounds like a win-win at first, especially if 15 something years ago was the last time you touched those ancient relics (pun intended), but I assure you, distant time or not, I still felt the physics were off, even if I didn’t know why at first.

We sadly run into the classic “it’s hard to explain this without playing it yourself”, so you will need to take everything said with a pinch of salt. But then again, that’s the attitude you should have on the internet anyways, so that’s a moot point.

Now while I do understand the need to homogenize all three games and am perfectly fine with the concept so long as the physics behave consistently, they unfortunately don’t. Again, do understand this comes from someone who loves Wrath of Cortex, Twinsanity, The Huge Adventure and N.Trance. I am the last person to be close-minded about this. But those games only require a modest amount of investment to learn their ins and outs, their perceived skill-floor isn’t that high. But I feel you must give up your soul to find every little tiny thing you should avoid to have the illusion of a smooth experience in the remakes.

As stated, physics bias does not exist in my bones, rather, the remakes just feel unpolished. I lost count of jumps and mis-jumps that just felt “off”. They weren’t me not getting used to the controls, I replayed these remakes more than I care to admit. Rather, it was weird hit-boxes that felt wrong.

Wait a minute, janky hitboxes? So THIS is Dark Souls after all!

View attachment 60437​

Re-AWESOME: Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster​

View attachment 60436​

I’m a massive Dead Rising fan, playing Case Zero was one of the best nights of my life, Chuck Greene was love at first sight and a true role model all of us should aspire to be, and Dead Rising 3 was just pure, unfiltered fun. The original Dead Rising that released in 2006 is not exempt from this praise, in fact, it deserves nuclear levels of it. But we’re here to discuss its wonderful remake, which is a true testament to how Sandbox games live and die by their QoL features, and Deluxe Remaster is no slouch there.


Changes ranging from the Real Mega Buster looking much more beautiful than ever with the enhanced particle effects and shinier laser, the time speed-up, improved survivor AI, auto-save (yes, it wasn’t in the original!) and just so much more stuff. This was even my first time getting the infamous Saint achievement, what a wild ride it was!

Do you have any remakes you like? Remakes you wish never existed? Please do share!

Also, quick announcement. Everyone is now welcome to suggest the next topic for the “Talking Point” series article, all you need to do is write down a comment with your suggestion and I’ll consider it! Thanks for reading!

for me the final fantasy 4 3d remakes are hot garbage, they should just have used the psp complete collection on steam

 

[MemeAlert]

Remakes can be good but not when they change the intent and atmosphere of said game. They think of the Zelda N64 games on the 3DS where yea it "looks better" but you took away what made those games special. Am I the only one who felt like the Resident Evil 4 Remake was mid? Now thats an example of someone remaking something just for a sake of a remake.

Post automatically merged: Monday at 11:18 PM

for me the final fantasy 4 3d remakes are hot garbage, they should just have used the psp complete collection on steam

Define "hot" garbage"?

 

[Dark Lucifer]

for me the final fantasy 4 3d remakes are hot garbage, they should just have used the psp complete collection on steam

I don't know about you, but I really like final fantasy 4 3d remakes Looks cool for me

 

[sarkwalvein]

Some remakes are awesome, I mean, look at Oath of Felghana compared to Wanderers from Ys, specially that music arrangement.

But most remakes are just meh.

 

[A man on a computer]

I made a drinking game outta this when I get into online arguments about the subject.

Take one shot if you see a someone claiming if they're an OG fan while calling the original's gameplay and design "outdated" or "trash".
Take two shots if the person your arguing with is part of the "everything is art" crowd.

they're often just an excuse to make everything like the last of us..

NAOW, TakE aN ExTra FouRtH-oNe WeN DA rEmaKe n qUesTion is a LaSt oF US reSkiN.

 

[Lee__Kanker]

I made a drinking game outta this when I get into online arguments about the subject.

Take one shot if you see a someone claiming if they're an OG fan while calling the original's gameplay and design "outdated" or "trash".
Take two shots if the person your arguing with is part of the "everything is art" crowd.

NAOW, TakE aN ExTra FouRtH-oNe WeN DA rEmaKe n qUesTion is a LaSt oF US reSkiN.

Nothing sways me more than telling me the original was always bad and I just didnt know any better. And on top of that it was a problematic danger to society and this is the modernization it desperately needed

It was truly the dark ages before the last of us, after it came out videogames finally became good

Everything is art, every piece of art is political, every piece of art supports my views

 

[Weljon]

I don't know about you, but I really like final fantasy 4 3d remakes Looks cool for me

they removed a lot of features from after years, and it doesn't even run at 30 fps, unlike psp versions
who run at 60fps

 

[Skeetos]

NOOOOO YOUSEF DOESN'T LIKE N SANE TRILOGY YET LIKES DRDR!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though. I know exactly what you mean about NST. It feels like they went through making Crash 1, then didn't realize that 2 and 3 had their own ways of control. And don't get me started on the edges, you gotta be pixel perfect with some of the ledges because they have a small area where it pulls you down into the pits. BUT! Besides some of the music being ruined (Hang Eight not having certain audio cues, and most of Crash 3 having weird instruments that don't make sense) I thought it was quite faithful, I liked that Crash wasn't as slippery as he is in OG3, and I really liked the added time trials to 1 and 2.

As for Dead Rising? I won't play it, I get people thought the Erotica thing was creepy, but that was the point, at least in 1. In 1 you have Kent, and Kent is a creeper that takes pictures for profit, vs Frank taking pictures to expose the truth. In the later games they had it to where it was goofy, but people often forget that DR1 and 2 and even 3 have pretty serious stories. I also don't think it was necessary to censor Clint's dialogue about Vietnam. I know that he drops a slur, but it was a part of his character. The game is set in a small town in Colorado in 2006. I hate to say it but people thought differently, and Vietnam has always been a messed up topic. It also doesn't feel in line with their other remakes lately. I know you said you didn't like the Resident Evil remakes, Seems like since Crowbcat bitched about 4, people have been hating them more, not saying that's your reasoning of course. But I really liked them, 2 and 4 of course, 3 was hot dogshit. Idk, with those remakes it felt like they tried to make them different without losing that vibe they all had. With Dead Rising it's an upscale at best with nothing really that different except for QoL additions and censored dialogue.

I honestly don't mind remakes. I think that some are much better than others, and at least with Capcom specifically they haven't taken any of the original games down, and in the case of Resident Evil actually re released the originals on GOG. Dead Space is one of my all time favorite remakes, they did an amazing job, and I prefer it over the original.
Remasters are different. I like them if they are pretty accurate and don't change much. But some for varying reasons end up shittier than the originals because they mess with things that don't need to be changed. I do really like Nightdive's remasters though. If only they didn't charge so much for them.

 

[Yousef]

NOOOOO YOUSEF DOESN'T LIKE N SANE TRILOGY YET LIKES DRDR!!!!!!!!!!!

I don’t like it… I LOVE IT, unfortunately im writing this literally as I’m heading to work so i can’t quite give the full essay response however I don’t see why we need to close the lid on this, so I’ll leave a small note saying and hopefully we can return to this eventually since we do chat frequently enough for that to be a possibility. But basically, I played enough remakes to basically despise the whole concept, so when I replayed DRDR and it kept the gameplay mostly the same, it was a dream come true. My background is that I’m a mechanical purist. Almost all story stuff is meaningless to me so dialogue changes tend to not have a conscience thought in me. I do have an issue though. I think the RE engine sucks, if you think me liking DRDR means I’d be a positively b-word, you have a storm coming nyahaha >:))), sadly my RE engine complaints are largely irrelevant here but i just hate it in general </3

We can expand on this a bit more if you want. I don’t have any specific examples at the moment. Just woke up from bed </3

Seriously though. I know exactly what you mean about NST. It feels like they went through making Crash 1, then didn't realize that 2 and 3 had their own ways of control. And don't get me started on the edges, you gotta be pixel perfect with some of the ledges because they have a small area where it pulls you down into the pits. BUT! Besides some of the music being ruined (Hang Eight not having certain audio cues, and most of Crash 3 having weird instruments that don't make sense) I thought it was quite faithful, I liked that Crash wasn't as slippery as he is in OG3, and I really liked the added time trials to 1 and 2.

Yeah exactly this. Shockingly, I’m actually open to homogenizing the physics across all three games as I alluded to in my writing, the issue was just how garbage the jank hurtboxes. This really was faithful to dark souls.

I honestly don't mind remakes. I think that some are much better than others, and at least with Capcom specifically they haven't taken any of the original games down, and in the case of Resident Evil actually re released the originals on GOG.

Man I really should get on the GOGgity goose hype train but I dunno if steam deck supports it

 

[Skeetos]

I don’t like it… I LOVE IT, unfortunately im writing this literally as I’m heading to work so i can’t quite give the full essay response however I don’t see why we need to close the lid on this, so I’ll leave a small note saying and hopefully we can return to this eventually since we do chat frequently enough for that to be a possibility. But basically, I played enough remakes to basically despise the whole concept, so when I replayed DRDR and it kept the gameplay mostly the same, it was a dream come true. My background is that I’m a mechanical purist. Almost all story stuff is meaningless to me so dialogue changes tend to not have a conscience thought in me. I do have an issue though. I think the RE engine sucks, if you think me liking DRDR means I’d be a positively b-word, you have a storm coming nyahaha >:))), sadly my RE engine complaints are largely irrelevant here but i just hate it in general </3

We can expand on this a bit more if you want. I don’t have any specific examples at the moment. Just woke up from bed </3


Yeah exactly this. Shockingly, I’m actually open to homogenizing the physics across all three games as I alluded to in my writing, the issue was just how garbage the jank hurtboxes. This really was faithful to dark souls.

Man I really should get on the GOGgity goose hype train but I dunno if steam deck supports it

1. Steam Deck supports GOG stuff. Use the Heroic Launcher, and try to look up people's guides on certain harder to run games.

2. I get that aspect of wanting it to be the same. But my favorite remakes are all moreso reimaginings. One's that are like entirely new games. I think that's what I like there. Remasters are different.

3. Still mad that VV didn't get much more chances with Crash. Unlike dogass Toys for Bob they actually had experience with the franchise, and besides Crash Purple and Spyro Orange all of them were good.

4. I hate censorship. And Dead Rising is one of those games that I think is amazing because of it's serious story, and I just think that even though times have changed we shouldn't censor stuff because we are hurt by it, I think that does a disservice to human history and the idea that we should learn from it rather than lose it to time and repeat our mistakes. And I think that Dead Rising is one of the least offensive things I've played honestly. God that game is awesome. Glad you found some worth in the remake though. I'm hoping Resident Evil 9 is good.

5. I like the RE Engine, but not the latest games on it. It was good for the Resident Evil remakes because those weren't huge open ended games, but you can really tell with MH Wilds and Dogma 2 that it struggles with open world design. I'm sure it shines with Dead Rising though.

 

[Yousef]

1. Steam Deck supports GOG stuff. Use the Heroic Launcher, and try to look up people's guides on certain harder to run games.

2. I get that aspect of wanting it to be the same. But my favorite remakes are all moreso reimaginings. One's that are like entirely new games. I think that's what I like there. Remasters are different.

3. Still mad that VV didn't get much more chances with Crash. Unlike dogass Toys for Bob they actually had experience with the franchise, and besides Crash Purple and Spyro Orange all of them were good.

4. I hate censorship. And Dead Rising is one of those games that I think is amazing because of it's serious story, and I just think that even though times have changed we shouldn't censor stuff because we are hurt by it, I think that does a disservice to human history and the idea that we should learn from it rather than lose it to time and repeat our mistakes. And I think that Dead Rising is one of the least offensive things I've played honestly. God that game is awesome. Glad you found some worth in the remake though. I'm hoping Resident Evil 9 is good.

5. I like the RE Engine, but not the latest games on it. It was good for the Resident Evil remakes because those weren't huge open ended games, but you can really tell with MH Wilds and Dogma 2 that it struggles with open world design. I'm sure it shines with Dead Rising though.

Random notes:

1- I don’t know the industry nor Capcom well enough to know if this is true but I heard the changes were forced and not by choice, forced out of fear of China, and given how China infamously has altered versions (look up Yakuza 0 assassin) of some games and that it is infamous for actually punishing people irl via censorship n stuff I’d say it lines up quite nicely. Can’t help but sympathize with the devs if they had their hands tied.

2- AWESOME! GOGgity gog seems fun, I’ve actually been primarily using Archive.org but had thoughts of switching. I prefer it over 7th gen emulation. Deadpool ran flawlessly for me and that’s game I wholeheartedly think is awesome. Might try that one transformers game everyone is raving about!

3- I actually for the most part don’t mind the physics from Toys From Bob, it’s the level design that’s pure cancer. Yuck.

4- I have a modder friend she constantly complains about UE5 and RE engine homogenization. I can see how that’s still an issue. Wow.

Once again thanks for reading, always great reading your comments!! =DD!!

 

[Skeetos]

1. Steam Deck supports GOG stuff. Use the Heroic Launcher, and try to look up people's guides on certain harder to run games.
2. I get that aspect of wanting it to be the same. But my favorite remakes are all moreso reimaginings. One's that are like entirely new games. I think that's what I like there. Remasters are different.
3. Still mad that VV didn't get much more chances with Crash. Unlike dogass Toys for Bob they actually had experience with the franchise, and besides Crash Purple and Spyro Orange all of them were good.
4. I hate censorship. And Dead Rising is one of those games that I think is amazing because of it's serious story, and I just think that even though times have changed we shouldn't censor stuff because we are hurt by it, I think that does a disservice to human history and the idea that we should learn from it rather than lose it to time and repeat our mistakes. And I think that Dead Rising is one of the least offensive things I've played honestly. God that game is awesome. Glad you found some worth in the remake though. I'm hoping Resident Evil 9 is good.
5. I like the RE Engine, but not the latest games on it. It was good for the Resident Evil remakes because those weren't huge open ended games, but you can really tell with MH Wilds and Dogma 2 that it struggles with open world design. I'm sure it shines with Dead Rising though.

Random notes:

1- I don’t know the industry nor Capcom well enough to know if this is true but I heard the changes were forced and not by choice, forced out of fear of China, and given how China infamously has altered versions (look up Yakuza 0 assassin) of some games and that it is infamous for actually punishing people irl via censorship n stuff I’d say it lines up quite nicely. Can’t help but sympathize with the devs if they had their hands tied.

2- AWESOME! GOGgity gog seems fun, I’ve actually been primarily using Archive.org but had thoughts of switching. I prefer it over 7th gen emulation. Deadpool ran flawlessly for me and that’s game I wholeheartedly think is awesome. Might try that one transformers game everyone is raving about!

3- I actually for the most part don’t mind the physics from Toys From Bob, it’s the level design that’s pure cancer. Yuck.

4- I have a modder friend she constantly complains about UE5 and RE engine homogenization. I can see how that’s still an issue. Wow.

Once again thanks for reading, always great reading your comments!! =DD!!

I heard about that with Dead Rising. It makes sense for sure.

GOG is worth it. They have sales just as good as Steam as well if you like that.

If you are talking about Transformers Devastation, then hell yes play it.

I heard that RE had some issues with mods. I still think it's good for smaller scale projects. But I do think it's time for a new engine, hopefully not adopting Unreal 5 like everyone else. UE5 sucks the dogpoo off the end of my boot.

 

[Dark Lucifer]

they removed a lot of features from after years, and it doesn't even run at 30 fps, unlike psp versions
who run at 60fps

So

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Im not a fan of remakes .

RE1 remake on the gamecube was one of the best remakes including metal max returns . I even love the classic xbox remake of Conkers bad fur day ( yeah the censorship of the words is the major gripe , even for me ) because the multiplayer had bot-matches and is extremly underrated too .

But ... otherwise i refuse modern remakes overall .

The recent RE remakes are very mediocre and took out elements that the original games made them so great in their design and approach . Those games had some Click'n'point DNA into them that was ripped out from their more investigative elements by exploring rooms and the combat was about positioning and timing but the changed it in the remakes more about accuracy and even reaction too like a typical third person shooter from the Xbox 360 era .

Silent Hill 2 remake wasnt horrible but took out the personality of the Original for better graphics and another Third person shooter action approach that takes out the horror away into John Wick in Silent Hill .

I dont like when games getting more and more samey because of design standards that are more popular than good or thoughtful .

And the Censorship or changes in those remakes even underlines this whole madness of mass-produced game-design mediocrity in its most insuffrable form that we get .

The QoL features are great , dont get me wrong , but i would rather mod it into the old game instead having a whole remake that give those QoL stuff while changing the game personality-wise into something completly different .

And those modern remakes that were praised unthoughtfully into the high heavens , suddenly divided fanbases because slowly people understood that those older games had more behind it than they thought and realised what was lacking in these remakes .

 

[Anim8rDude]

Interesting conversations going on haha.

Re-meh for me. Can't really think of an instance where I'd rather play a Remake instead of the original, except Gamecube's RE1.

In fact, I'd rather just have ports instead of all these remakes. If something is console-exclusive & has a cult following at minimum, just port it! That's my true stance on all of this!
I still respect the PS3 for this. Even in current times stuff like The Silent Hill Collection has more relevance than ever, since it's the cheapest & also the best looking way to play it.

Another example, I'd rather they just do simple ports of the Panzer Dragoons & House of the Deads rather than remakes.

GOG is doing a pretty darn good job at doing this & honestly wouldn't have it any other way

Or the SMT3 Nocturne Remaster, which murdered the atmosphere.

I thought this was a simple port but that was some stuff changed?

 

[LiberoVulpesLiberoVulpes's icon]

I thought this was a simple port but that was some stuff changed?

The atmosphere from the original PS2 version was lost, because they wanted the HD texture work to stand out more, which completely kills the vibe of the game.

 

[Anim8rDude]

The atmosphere from the original PS2 version was lost, because they wanted the HD texture work to stand out more, which completely kills the vibe of the game.

To be honest I just remember Nocturne being low on textures in general, looking like Killer 7 minus the cel shade. I can see that happening. I swear there was this other remaster where I had this exact thought...

 

[LiberoVulpesLiberoVulpes's icon]

I swear there was this other remaster where I had this exact thought...

It happened with the Halo CE HD textures for the Master Chief Collection as well.

Tends to be a common problem with HD upscaling, and the need to add something.

 

[Mopeybloke]

I'd usually judge remakes on their own, based on my general standards. And at that point, it's irrelevant whether they are remakes or not. It would be good if people had less brand loyalty, and mostly ignored remakes unless they were games you would still play without having known the original.

 

[Weljon]

So

well, if you like it, i hope one day comes a patch that fixes most of 3d issues