Stealth games!

Spy Fiction is definitely on my list to play at some point!
Back then people bashed it for being "Metal Gear clone" when it's more like futuristic Mission Impossible style spy stealth - action game that has way more features than Metal Gear series.

You can go invisible when you lean on wall that feels like Deus Ex and change your disguise by taking a picture of anyone that is like Hitman series. You select a character before starting to game to choose gender which does changes which gender of people you can disguise yourself as. I think the woman character has no gender limit but the dude could only disguise himself as another men.

Overall stealth is the way it's but then why people disliked it is "IDK what to do" arcade hard Mission Impossible sections.
I get what you mean, but i disagree here. MGS (the first one anyway) you really can't shoot your way out, your ammo is limited and your character can only take a few hits. You also can't progress with alarms going. It's similar with Thief - you can't complete the game by shooting or stabbing every soldier. Stealth is meaningful because if you don't do it, there are pretty severe consequences.

With Deus Ex - there are two missions where stealth matter; the subway and Vanderberg Gas, and the penalties for being discovered are really minimal (you get a bit less money, and miss a powerup), though you of course have to live with failing the mission and not saving the people concerned. I think i would have preferred there to be a game over to make you 'do' stealth properly. The rest you can absolutely shoot your way through with very little consequence, particularly if you level up your augs, and I say this as someone who considers it in my top 10 games ever!
The part you quoted was written for a hypothetical "by your logic" statement to make a point regarding "if X is valid then Y is valid" logic, so it's not what I think lol.

Meaning, why stealth is "better option" in Deux Ex 1 is for avoiding trying to do "perfect run" to avoid damage and loss of unnecessary resources which that's basically comes up to the idea of "how in MGS your ammo and whatever is very limited". For example in the original Resident Evil 2 resources are limited too without any opton for stealth though so all player can do is "avoid and walk away" approach which comes up to the topic of "you don't have to kill everyone" that forms a fundamental gameplay logic for stealth so stealth doesn't have to be about some reward, penalty or "game over when you are found out" logic.

However you underestimate how in MGS your character can take a few hits that only in the hardest difficulties it's a valid statement. What actually limits players from Rambo their way out is the way doors getting locked until alarm state is cleared, however the usual players kill people around and hide somewhere until alarm is cleared because once the way out is cleared enough it makes it easier to just walk away. People tend to find a way to still play MGS games as an action game that they don't trigger alarm state because not many people care to play MGS games as stealth games. Your Deus Ex preference is very similar to that though. Then it only means you won't play games in stealth if the game won't force you for it while I even take a stealth approach in GTA San Andreas if I can just for fun so no need for penalty or something for me. Not many people have the personality for stealth so forcing it comes up to the reason of why Star Wars Outlaws partly disliked because of that and why even Hideo Kojima didn't really force people for a BS stealth gameplay. Otherwise in MGS games you can be a tank very well since tons of variety of weapons to pick and even armor to get and all.

In the end your preference is not the topic here so I don't have anything to say to that, however sometimes in games stealth has to be an option because of player's preferences especially when the game is tied to limited resources. That's why in RPGs you would tend to see stealth option which existed even way before Hideo Kojima's grand grand grand father existed. Inventing stories and "what would you do" questions are fundamental of roleplaying games that was played verbally as one of the first example of a game idea that was not about some sport or in general physical activity which its physical version is good old hide and seek. Naturally when you played table-top RPGs there would be situations for stealth approach for like "damn there are 10 people but I have 3 arrows so better just sneak out". So from the start you will misunderstand the whole video game industry if you think about it as "they added stealth because it was popular". Hide and seek is like universal game kids play, hiding is a primal urge while you are faced with danger so it's not about popularity but what the game calls for and how fundamentally people are. Other than these type of stealth can be a subject of "what is popular" which ignorant understanding of "stealth" gameplay that "once you found out the game is over" is what the popular one when stealth is more than that. Being found out is one thing, what to do if you have found out is the other aspect of the stealth genre that lazy developers limits stealth to necessary gameover or "enemies suddenly surround you and one shot kill you" BS lol.

Lastly I wanna mention "stealth logic" in early video game example. It was a natural choice to avoid enemies because even a touch could kill you. In that regard instead of praising Hideo Kojima for "stealth" society should learn about earlier example of stealth games lol. For example:


Either be total ghost or run away, it's up to you. Released in 1980.

And then we have this game. Also released in 1980:


Another one:


And this game had a disguise system that actually took stealth genre further above and guards reacts to gunshot sound lol:


So was "stealth" in Deus Ex 1 exist because it was "popular"? Cannot think of humanity without an urge to hide and do whatever they want in stealth if they fear from the outcomes or they are limited by resources in the game lol, therefore as long as the game has enemies to deal with and unless the game is a mindless shooter stealth will always be an option. So did Hideo Kojima actually changed things in stealth genre for "initial push" for the industry? Not really, he was just a bridge between stealth genre to modern players that is kinda no different than how new generation kids had to learn existence of RPG genre because of Skyrim then let's think because of Skyrim popularity new games have inventory management and level system or something too lol.
 
i've put over a thousand hours into Thief 1 and 2 through fan-made missions, of which there are hundreds. I'll replay the base games every couple years, but i have some gripes with some levels in either. On the other hand I am still quite fond of the full fan campaign Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age that has a very good quality over quantity in its mission selection. Some of its designers even got hired to work on Thief 3, though I have only ever played that entry twice because i find the control so awful. thankfully there's The Dark Mod which acts a modern community driven successor, and is completely free and standalone now!

i really enjoyed Splinter Cell Chaos Theory as the closest to take after Thief's particular lighting and sound mechanics for stealth, but having replayed it again just earlier this year i found myself even more frustrated with the scripted encounters in the penultimate level. just short of true greatness.

i've also played a lot of the new Hitman trilogy, but at this point i'd done so many silent assassin runs or other types of challenges i couldnt really settle for just kinda winging it. i really should try the freelancer mode some time though.
 
i've put over a thousand hours into Thief 1 and 2 through fan-made missions, of which there are hundreds. I'll replay the base games every couple years, but i have some gripes with some levels in either. On the other hand I am still quite fond of the full fan campaign Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age that has a very good quality over quantity in its mission selection. Some of its designers even got hired to work on Thief 3, though I have only ever played that entry twice because i find the control so awful. thankfully there's The Dark Mod which acts a modern community driven successor, and is completely free and standalone now!

i really enjoyed Splinter Cell Chaos Theory as the closest to take after Thief's particular lighting and sound mechanics for stealth, but having replayed it again just earlier this year i found myself even more frustrated with the scripted encounters in the penultimate level. just short of true greatness.

i've also played a lot of the new Hitman trilogy, but at this point i'd done so many silent assassin runs or other types of challenges i couldnt really settle for just kinda winging it. i really should try the freelancer mode some time though.
Gotta love a strong fan community! I've lost count of how many Pokemon hacks I've played over the years.
 

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