Spawn Thread

VodkaEnergee

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This Topic is a Character Topic about Spawn... Maybe not many pay attention to The Character of Spawn aka Albert Francis "Al" Simmons and his Lore. Maybe do but don't care or talk about it. What are you all's thoughts about this Character, or Him against Other Characters from anything else.


Video Lore on Spawn fro this Topic:

[Farkham4 Channel who goes over Spawn. Then the Animated Series.]





Animated Series:

 
Spawn on HBO was an asmr fest for the ears now that I watch it again. Especially that Clown and the Hobo guide.
 
I used to be good friends with the guy who translated Spawn into Russian for its regional release. Well, before the current situation. I do hope he's okay.

The HBO Animated series is absolutely outstanding but the franchise attracts far to much development hell for me to ever become truly invested.
I will always respect McFarlane for having Spawn achieve peak public awareness (A feature film, Animated TV Series, Multiple games and high quality toys/figures) in less than a decade after the first issue was first published.
It took Marvel/DC half a century to do that and they're still struggling to sell the general public on some of their characters lol
 
spawn_1.jpg
 
Spawn is a weird one when it comes to its legacy. It had some good to it, some bad, and some worse.

The good:
  • The comics industry stepped up its game with printing quality. They were already in the process of switching from analog to digital years beforehand (DC's Doom Patrol was already digitally drawn before Spawn), but there was a bigger push for glossy images after Image Comics got big.
  • Figurines got better. Most American action figures were garbage back then. It was more often than not cheap repurposed GI Joes, complete with weapons. (Anyone remember the Street Fighter figures holding swords and guns?) McFarlane was probably the first company in the US to sell actual figurines instead of mere kids' toys.
  • McFarlane writing Spawn meant McFarlane not writing Spider-man or other Marvel series. And he took Rob Liefeld with him, allowing Marvel to turn Deadpool into a better character.
The bad:
  • Image pushed the idea that artists, not writers, were the backbone of the industry. They put out comics that were so artist-focused that we got several that were "pretty" (in a 90s dark-n'-edgy sense) but had nothing worth reading to go with it. Spawn was so badly written, some fanmail printed in the back of comics asked McFarlane to hire a writer. (After he did, there was fanmail patting him on the back for finally relenting.)
  • As an aside, I've never liked McFarlane's art style. It's grimy and pessimistic, uglifying everything including the "pretty" stuff. And the cloying way he uses little girls with giant eyes to emo-bait readers makes me sick to my stomach.
  • The early issues wrote it into a hole. Remember the "timer" (or whatever that was)? It had to be written out in order for the series to continue. And the series seemed to hinge way more on its origin story than, say, Batman, to the point that tons of issues were just Al moping in an alley about how much life sucks. It's no wonder McFarlane came close to switching it over to a buddy cop series that just happened to have the mopey guy in a supporting role.
  • McFarlane's bad writing turned the series into mental health hate speech. It's one thing to do cartoony psychopaths like the Joker. McFarlane went above and beyond that, portraying any mental health issue — from OCD to intellectual disabilities — as a "realistic" source of evil that needed to be stopped via summary execution. It was utterly disturbing to see so much of abnormal psychology misrepresented just so that Spawn had an excuse to murder people who would have never realistically killed anyone and just needed medical help.
  • Despite improving some merch, it also created some really bad merch. I've never seen anyone insist that Spawn video games are good. (Try playing Spawn: In The Demon's Hand without getting a headache from the terrible camera.)
  • The Spawn movie.
  • The only things I clearly remember from the TV series were a scene of Violator verbally edgelording while ripping his clown-flesh off, an intellectually disabled person being treated like a horror monster, and a scene of a guy rage-****ing a woman in the ***. I don't know which is the worst memory, but I'd rather not have any of them.
The worse:
  • Prices for comics skyrocketed (and never went back down) as a direct result of the artist-focused mindset. We stepped out of the era of comics being a working class hobby (issues costing less than gum) to comics being a middle class hobby (graphic novels costing more than hardcover novels). Part of that was the new costs from glossy prints, and part of that was the image of comics being collector's items. Spawn was at the forefront of the idea of new comics (rather than old) being valuable investments, and prices went up with that. And that led to...
  • The comics industry nearly died trying to chase the collecting/investment market. Marvel was so wrecked they nearly sold everything to Michael Jackson, and had to sell off the film rights to several series just to keep on going. That, of course, eventually resulted in the Disney buy-out, which hasn't worked perfectly.
  • The "dark n' edgy" nonsense never fully left the industry. We've had to endure Ultimate Marvel, DC's New 52, and Zack Snyder's films. And Image is still doing it, just with a "brighter" fascade.
  • And we're always on the verge of Spawn getting big again, despite really never changing. McFarlane wants to make a new movie with him as a creative consultant. It might get out of development hell eventually.
And honestly, I tried to list some more good to go with the rest of that, but I couldn't really think of anything more. Spawn would be a footnote in the wave of "nerd cool" in the 90s if it hadn't gone full bull in porcelain shop on the industry. (See how other early Image series like The Maxx, Witchblade, and Youngblood have been mostly forgotten.) Instead, we have a series that has a ton of nostalgia directed at it partially because it was just that much more visible than other series doing not much else different.

And I know Spawn fans aren't going to like hearing me say all this. (For the sake of the forum, at the very least, don't go full Snyder acolyte on me for this, as Spawn fans are quick to do.) But the question was "What are you all's thoughts", not "please leave your Spawn praise here."
 
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Figurines got better. Most American action figures were garbage back then.

Watched a documentary a couple years ago about McFarlane, how he was pushing for better quality figurines and the industry didn't want to. So he did it and that as a result got better results, otherwise they were all basically cheap plastic he-man figurines with different paint jobs.
 
  • Image pushed the idea that artists, not writers, were the backbone of the industry. They put out comics that were so artist-focused that we got several that were "pretty" (in a 90s dark-n'-edgy sense) but had nothing worth reading to go with it. Spawn was so badly written, some fanmail printed in the back of comics asked McFarlane to hire a writer. (After he did, there was fanmail patting him on the back for finally relenting.)
@miguk Really interesting post, I'm just gonna add a few thoughts. To the above, I would argue that Image was founded primarily by artists, but they weren't making a statement about who was more important, them or the writers. The point was that creators would own their work, as opposed to the policy of DC/Marvel.

They *did* suck at writing, absolutely, but the real disappointment wasn't McFarlane hiring out (plenty of comics were terrible), it was that he hired several guest writers like Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, and then refused to credit Gaiman specifically or pay royalties for characters he'd created. Basically, he quickly undermined the whole point of Image Comics, and started on his road to Typical Mogul, up to and including buying his favorite sports team.
  • The early issues wrote it into a hole. Remember the "timer" (or whatever that was)? It had to be written out in order for the series to continue. And the series seemed to hinge way more on its origin story than, say, Batman, to the point that tons of issues were just Al moping in an alley about how much life sucks. It's no wonder McFarlane came close to switching it over to a buddy cop series that just happened to have the mopey guy in a supporting role.
I got my brother a huge collection of Spawn awhile back for a nostalgic birthday gift, and re-read some of it while I was at it. The thing that jumped out at me was how badly McFarlane was trying to ape Frank Miller, specifically The Dark Knight Returns. He uses the talking heads on TV, the pundits presenting the opposing political takes on whatever is going on in the story, the general mood and tone of the setting...he's missing the weird political core of Miller though, the libertarians of the 80's who hated Reagan *and* Jimmy Carter. Miller wrote very anti-establishment, but he still had empathy and characters who were trying to be heroic. (That being said, Miller wrote Spawn #11, I think, so he didn't mind the imitation.)
  • Prices for comics skyrocketed (and never went back down) as a direct result of the artist-focused mindset. We stepped out of the era of comics being a working class hobby (issues costing less than gum) to comics being a middle class hobby (graphic novels costing more than hardcover novels). Part of that was the new costs from glossy prints, and part of that was the image of comics being collector's items. Spawn was at the forefront of the idea of new comics (rather than old) being valuable investments, and prices went up with that. And that led to...
  • The comics industry nearly died trying to chase the collecting/investment market. Marvel was so wrecked they nearly sold everything to Michael Jackson, and had to sell off the film rights to several series just to keep on going. That, of course, eventually resulted in the Disney buy-out, which hasn't worked perfectly.
  • The "dark n' edgy" nonsense never fully left the industry. We've had to endure Ultimate Marvel, DC's New 52, and Zack Snyder's films. And Image is still doing it, just with a "brighter" fascade.
  • And we're always on the verge of Spawn getting big again, despite really never changing. McFarlane wants to make a new movie with him as a creative consultant. It might get out of development hell eventually.
In order,

The comics boom and burst was well underway, and in fact the biggest tipping point, X-Men #1 (1991), was a major catalyst for Image being created in the first place. It is *still* the best-selling American comic in history, with multiple covers and print runs and every gimmick under the sun. In the face of the massive profit, with nothing extra coming there, Jim Lee and the others struck out on their own. Marvel kept running that train though, and DC did everything the could to follow. So, just clarifying, it wasn't the artists specifically, but the higher-ups at the publishers capitalizing on the collector boom of the 90's to their detriment. (We really did have one here in America to, from comics to cards to beanie babies, we *loved* the idea that some old crap in Grandad's attic would make us rich.)

Dark and edgy was frustrating, but again, I'd call Spawn a symptom; it was both new authors mimicking Moore and Miller (among others), and the publishers pushing for "the next Watchman/Dark Knight Rises". Spawn was pretty well the Edgiest Edgelord though, at least for the early 90's.

Funny enough, Spawn is actually still going with three separate titles currently, and frequent mini-series and oneshots. It'll probably never have that multi-media crossover again, thankfully. Poor Micheal Jai-White and John Leguizamo, they did their best.
 
They *did* suck at writing, absolutely, but the real disappointment wasn't McFarlane hiring out (plenty of comics were terrible), it was that he hired several guest writers like Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, and then refused to credit Gaiman specifically or pay royalties for characters he'd created. Basically, he quickly undermined the whole point of Image Comics, and started on his road to Typical Mogul, up to and including buying his favorite sports team.
I always interpreted that, along with Image being just artists from the start, as being "artist control" instead of "creator control." McFarlane never struck me as sincere about wanting everyone doing the work to be equal, and he showed in his decades long legal battle with Gaiman that he didn't.

I got my brother a huge collection of Spawn awhile back for a nostalgic birthday gift, and re-read some of it while I was at it. The thing that jumped out at me was how badly McFarlane was trying to ape Frank Miller, specifically The Dark Knight Returns. He uses the talking heads on TV, the pundits presenting the opposing political takes on whatever is going on in the story, the general mood and tone of the setting...he's missing the weird political core of Miller though, the libertarians of the 80's who hated Reagan *and* Jimmy Carter. Miller wrote very anti-establishment, but he still had empathy and characters who were trying to be heroic. (That being said, Miller wrote Spawn #11, I think, so he didn't mind the imitation.)
Well, aping Miller isn't 100% bad. TMNT did a great job of it. But TMNT actually got Miller's work more than most did, arguably including Miller himself. (In his later years, the guy's attempts at ironically aping himself didn't even come close the the quality that Eastman & Laird produced). But trying to use Miller's style completely seriously is a bad move, considering that, even at his best, he came close to making his work unlikable. (You know, because of his habits.) A less talented writer would do worse with it.

Dark and edgy was frustrating, but again, I'd call Spawn a symptom; it was both new authors mimicking Moore and Miller (among others), and the publishers pushing for "the next Watchman/Dark Knight Rises". Spawn was pretty well the Edgiest Edgelord though, at least for the early 90's.
Well, the industry was edging closer and closer to that point, partially because of McFarlane and Liefeld's pre-Image work, as well as others who didn't get what Moore was going for with Watchmen. But Spawn seemed to be the breaking point, where style finally won over substance, Venom outsold Spider-man, and Superman died.
 
I always interpreted that, along with Image being just artists from the start, as being "artist control" instead of "creator control." McFarlane never struck me as sincere about wanting everyone doing the work to be equal, and he showed in his decades long legal battle with Gaiman that he didn't.
Yeah, they still offer pretty much full control of the books to creators in their contracts, with (I'm told) a far more generous amount of the profit than the Big Two. (It's not all good though, they have a contentious relationship with the actual labor at Image itself, though the employees there *did* establish a union a few years back.) Moore and Gaiman and the others were happy to contribute at Image, having wanted to see those changes in the industry for years, but like I said McFarlane reneged on the founding ideals within...I think it took barely a year, Gaiman wrote either issue 9 or 11, one of those.
 
Figurines got better. Most American action figures were garbage back then. It was more often than not cheap repurposed GI Joes, complete with weapons. (Anyone remember the Street Fighter figures holding swords and guns?) McFarlane was probably the first company in the US to sell actual figurines instead of mere kids' toys.
Starting Lineups predated Spawn figures by about 7-8 years, but McFarlane definitely had the edge as far as detail (and would actually do sports figures once SLs went away, and they're really nice).

Also, off-topic, but those Street Fighter figures were actually part of the GI Joe line, the Joe branding is on the packaging and they have the same dossier files on the back like the other Joes. The Mortal Kombat figures weren't though and those are most likely reused molds from GI Joe. But there were other cool figures of varying sizes and whatnot, different topic for a different time, heh.
 
They should have Starbreeze make the next spawn game an FPS, it probably wouldn't sell cause it'll be too much for casuals, but it'll wash away the shame of the other games for the true gamerz.
 
One of my all-time favorites from childhood. Still a pretty big fan. I'm still actually pretty bummed about what happened with the rights over Angela, especially since Marvel has no idea what the hell to do with her. >>

Violator, though. My absolute favorite thing about the franchise and one of my favorite fictional characters ever.
il_1588xN.2228739668_jv3j.jpg
 

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