RGTの日本語スッドレ

studied it at language school 3 years with Japanese teachers and stopped due to difficulty. Only pursue it if you are good at math because learning process is the same
Something to keep in mind, and this is obviously from personal experience: I only passed high school maths because of COVID.

I sucked at it, and I still do. I've found Japanese much easier to learn than trying to comprehend weird and stupid math formulas that are supposed to be logical. Then again, I also took linguistics in high school and I think language is much more interesting to me and feels more logical, whereas maths always felt foreign to me.
 
Something to keep in mind, and this is obviously from personal experience: I only passed high school maths because of COVID.

I sucked at it, and I still do. I've found Japanese much easier to learn than trying to comprehend weird and stupid math formulas that are supposed to be logical. Then again, I also took linguistics in high school and I think language is much more interesting to me and feels more logical, whereas maths always felt foreign to me.

If you are fluent in European languages, Japanese will confuse you even more as it will not make sense, despite being a logical language.
While European languages can use 10 different words for same meaning, in Japanese you have to use exactly specific words and phrases for the specific situation or else it will not make sense.
You have to learn it out by heart like in maths instead of trying to think like a language or literature graduate and apply your own words and meanings
 
If you are fluent in European languages, Japanese will confuse you even more as it will not make sense, despite being a logical language.
While European languages can use 10 different words for same meaning, in Japanese you have to use exactly specific words and phrases for the specific situation or else it will not make sense.
You have to learn it out by heart like in maths instead of trying to think like a language or literature graduate and apply your own words and meanings
Tbh, I think there's a trade-off between the two languages in that sense.

Some things feel much better and understandable in Japanese, and vice versa. Nouns and verbs of the same thing (i.e shigoto, hataraku both mean "work", as in "to work" and the job descriptor) in Japanese is annoying, but the trade off is that conjugating verbs in Japanese is much easier than trying to understand verbs in English.
 
I'll add my own personal take with the Japanese learning experience.

Japanese itself is definitely a language that's not that hard to learn, I don't think it's as tough as learning something like math (I'm really bad with math for one) but it has it's quirks. The system is much different if you studied anything like the Romance languages (Spanish, French, and all that), but once you are able to break down the system as a whole with the rules of the language, it's not as tough as it looks. I'm sure other people find languages like English a lot harder with how wacky it gets with grammar and how words just change from singular to plural. However that's just my own experience, it'll always be different for everyone. Language learning isn't a race and it's doable with the will to learn it even if it's annoying or just trying to understand it's quirks.
 
I'll add my own personal take with the Japanese learning experience.

Japanese itself is definitely a language that's not that hard to learn, I don't think it's as tough as learning something like math (I'm really bad with math for one) but it has it's quirks. The system is much different if you studied anything like the Romance languages (Spanish, French, and all that), but once you are able to break down the system as a whole with the rules of the language, it's not as tough as it looks. I'm sure other people find languages like English a lot harder with how wacky it gets with grammar and how words just change from singular to plural. However that's just my own experience, it'll always be different for everyone. Language learning isn't a race and it's doable with the will to learn it even if it's annoying or just trying to understand it's quirks.

The issue with Japanese is that the current official N exams are way inferior to the European language exams. You do not even have to write essays and letters or take part in oral interviews. Only multiple choice and listening.

As a result Japanese N1, the top degree, is equivalent to something of like B1 in a European language, perhaps lower.

By the time it takes to reach N1, you could have reached C1-C2 in a European language.
And even then, only 2-3 % of European examiners reach N1. You have to go to Japan for proper exams.
 
The issue with Japanese is that the current official N exams are way inferior to the European language exams. You do not even have to write essays and letters or take part in oral interviews. Only multiple choice and listening.

As a result Japanese N1, the top degree, is equivalent to something of like B1 in a European language, perhaps lower.

By the time it takes to reach N1, you could have reached C1-C2 in a European language.
And even then, only 2-3 % of European examiners reach N1. You have to go to Japan for proper exams.
Not exactly. Japanese N1 is very difficult, much more than doing a B1.

To put it simple: oral stuff is what 95% of people learns first, because people prefer to talk with other people instead of giving writing the priority. It makes sense, as writing japanese is very difficult, so you're going to invest a lot of time on that. And N1 test is going to have kanjis that even regular japanese people do not recognize.

I've been studying japanese for 3 years but I gave writing the absolute priority, so I ended not knowing how to have a basic conversation, but that's also on me, because as you said, japanese is a grammar hell for people who come from european languages, and after 3 years I can't understand a sentence completely if I don't read it backwards, it's just very difficult for my head.

That's why I really dislike when people tell me "japanese is not that difficult". I completely disagree, for me japanese is harder than studying engineering, they have particles that simply make no sense, adjectives that are conjugated, verbs at the end of the sentence, present and past mixed up depending on what is supposed to be the order of actions and everything is seasoned with more than 2000 ideograms you have to learn how to read. And no, they don't read one way, they have multiple readings that you should know, so it's like hitting my head hard because my language uses just alphabet with 25 symbols I have to learn, and they read always the same way, verbs go in the middle of the sentence and particles are totally different.

So, when I say japanese is difficult, believe me, it is as difficult as hell.
 
Not exactly. Japanese N1 is very difficult, much more than doing a B1.

To put it simple: oral stuff is what 95% of people learns first, because people prefer to talk with other people instead of giving writing the priority. It makes sense, as writing japanese is very difficult, so you're going to invest a lot of time on that. And N1 test is going to have kanjis that even regular japanese people do not recognize.

I've been studying japanese for 3 years but I gave writing the absolute priority, so I ended not knowing how to have a basic conversation, but that's also on me, because as you said, japanese is a grammar hell for people who come from european languages, and after 3 years I can't understand a sentence completely if I don't read it backwards, it's just very difficult for my head.

That's why I really dislike when people tell me "japanese is not that difficult". I completely disagree, for me japanese is harder than studying engineering, they have particles that simply make no sense, adjectives that are conjugated, verbs at the end of the sentence, present and past mixed up depending on what is supposed to be the order of actions and everything is seasoned with more than 2000 ideograms you have to learn how to read. And no, they don't read one way, they have multiple readings that you should know, so it's like hitting my head hard because my language uses just alphabet with 25 symbols I have to learn, and they read always the same way, verbs go in the middle of the sentence and particles are totally different.

So, when I say japanese is difficult, believe me, it is as difficult as hell.
I'm a former english teacher from the tiny country of Belize, ive spent most of my life between japan and korea, im also a hobbyist polyglot.

I speak Garifuna, English, French, Spanish, Korean, and Japanese. I've been teaching myself languages since I was around 5 years old. Im very lucky to hold n1 certification for Spanish and Korean. In 3 years I'll be adding Japanese to that.

For starters, 3 years is an extremely short amount of time to dedicate to a language.

Language learning is a lifetime endeavor, not a destination.

Secondly, if you want to learn a language as an adult, unless you somehow scam someone into teaching you for free; you are going to have to hire a tutor.

You have to essentially build a life around learning languages if you want to learn them.

I've met geniuses who pick up language basics as effortlessly as a cat laps up cream from a dish, who cant learn languages because they dont have the mindset to be able to stick to language learning for their entire lives.

I'm saying all this to say, actual language learning is extremely easy, the hard part is being consistent and sticking to realistic goals.

I've met so many people who want to speak Japanese, but aren't willing to study for even an hour, let alone the 3-4 hours a day you need to study if you come from a non-asian background.

Japanese might be hard for you purely because of your mindset
 
I'm a former english teacher from the tiny country of Belize, ive spent most of my life between japan and korea, im also a hobbyist polyglot.

I speak Garifuna, English, French, Spanish, Korean, and Japanese. I've been teaching myself languages since I was around 5 years old. Im very lucky to hold n1 certification for Spanish and Korean. In 3 years I'll be adding Japanese to that.

For starters, 3 years is an extremely short amount of time to dedicate to a language.

Language learning is a lifetime endeavor, not a destination.

Secondly, if you want to learn a language as an adult, unless you somehow scam someone into teaching you for free; you are going to have to hire a tutor.

You have to essentially build a life around learning languages if you want to learn them.

I've met geniuses who pick up language basics as effortlessly as a cat laps up cream from a dish, who cant learn languages because they dont have the mindset to be able to stick to language learning for their entire lives.

I'm saying all this to say, actual language learning is extremely easy, the hard part is being consistent and sticking to realistic goals.

I've met so many people who want to speak Japanese, but aren't willing to study for even an hour, let alone the 3-4 hours a day you need to study if you come from a non-asian background.

Japanese might be hard for you purely because of your mindset
Although I understand your point of view, that does not work for everyone, as you say. I regularly meet japanese people, and some are teachers. I also meet tons of japanese students and the explanation is always the same: students who are good at learning are always telling japanese isn't difficult. Teachers who are teaching are always telling japanese isn't difficult.

People tend to compare ones to others, and "if you've got brain, you can learn it". Sure, we can learn everything, but every brain does not work the same way.

Learning is a procedure of persistency, the more time you invest, the more you advance. That's logical, but in the process of learning there are other factors involved.

Tutors can help, but they are not mandatory. I know we won't agree because you're one of them, but rest assured that in my life I've seen it many times. Because learning languages is one of the cheapest things (money related) and most expensive things (time related).

Brain is limited, and whoever tells me the opposite mean does not understand how mine is working. I am very bad at learning languages, but I've learnt spanish, catalan, english, a little bit of portuguese and a little bit of japanese. That would be fantastic, isn't it? actually no, it's not. I tend to forget words in all of them, I constantly find myself stuck in a conversation in my mother language because I can't recall words that are simple to other people. Why? because brain can hold a limited number of words and knowledge, depending on how smart it is.

If you want to tell me I am not good at japanese because I don't study 4 hours a day I can understand it, but as it happened before, even if I did you would be surprised how bad someone can be after studying and investing 4 hours every day after 3 years. Probably you would think I am not studying 4 hours a day when I am totally doing it.

The process of forgetting is also brain dependant, and that can't be helped, you can train your brain to some extent, but it has your own pysiological limitations.

Everyone can learn anything, some people need much more time than other, so we need to balance if the time we personally need for something is worth investing in exchange of the gain we are receiving.
 
Although I understand your point of view, that does not work for everyone, as you say. I regularly meet japanese people, and some are teachers. I also meet tons of japanese students and the explanation is always the same: students who are good at learning are always telling japanese isn't difficult. Teachers who are teaching are always telling japanese isn't difficult.

People tend to compare ones to others, and "if you've got brain, you can learn it". Sure, we can learn everything, but every brain does not work the same way.

Learning is a procedure of persistency, the more time you invest, the more you advance. That's logical, but in the process of learning there are other factors involved.

Tutors can help, but they are not mandatory. I know we won't agree because you're one of them, but rest assured that in my life I've seen it many times. Because learning languages is one of the cheapest things (money related) and most expensive things (time related).

Brain is limited, and whoever tells me the opposite mean does not understand how mine is working. I am very bad at learning languages, but I've learnt spanish, catalan, english, a little bit of portuguese and a little bit of japanese. That would be fantastic, isn't it? actually no, it's not. I tend to forget words in all of them, I constantly find myself stuck in a conversation in my mother language because I can't recall words that are simple to other people. Why? because brain can hold a limited number of words and knowledge, depending on how smart it is.

If you want to tell me I am not good at japanese because I don't study 4 hours a day I can understand it, but as it happened before, even if I did you would be surprised how bad someone can be after studying and investing 4 hours every day after 3 years. Probably you would think I am not studying 4 hours a day when I am totally doing it.

The process of forgetting is also brain dependant, and that can't be helped, you can train your brain to some extent, but it has your own pysiological limitations.

Everyone can learn anything, some people need much more time than other, so we need to balance if the time we personally need for something is worth investing in exchange of the gain we are receiving.
I.... have taken a lot of time reading your response.. I truly find myself at odds with many of your declarations, as they seem to echo the naïve musings of one still ensconced in the tender years of youth or the incipient stages of adulthood.

A charitable read of your discourse appears to be... detached from the substance of my experiences as a language pedagogue, intertwined with my hobbyist pursuit of linguistic mastery.

Nor does it match the words of those within similar hobbyist circles. My intent is not to come across as discourteous or crass; rather, I can only perceive your assertions as mere conjectural rationalizations from a place of disinterest in the art of language learning. Indeed, they possess validity, borne from your experience, yet they too may well be but the shadow of pessimistic fallacies.

I do overly empathize with your tribulations of those past three years spent, however, with everything considered, it just seems you lack the fundamental curiosity essential for acquiring new tongues. I have encountered myriad souls akin to yourself, resonating with similar sentiments. No doubt, I will encounter more when I return to Korea next year.

Yet, the fortune of your youth offers you the gift of reevaluation and growth on your journey ahead. Best of luck ♥
 
I.... have taken a lot of time reading your response.. I truly find myself at odds with many of your declarations, as they seem to echo the naïve musings of one still ensconced in the tender years of youth or the incipient stages of adulthood.

A charitable read of your discourse appears to be... detached from the substance of my experiences as a language pedagogue, intertwined with my hobbyist pursuit of linguistic mastery.

Nor does it match the words of those within similar hobbyist circles. My intent is not to come across as discourteous or crass; rather, I can only perceive your assertions as mere conjectural rationalizations from a place of disinterest in the art of language learning. Indeed, they possess validity, borne from your experience, yet they too may well be but the shadow of pessimistic fallacies.

I do overly empathize with your tribulations of those past three years spent, however, with everything considered, it just seems you lack the fundamental curiosity essential for acquiring new tongues. I have encountered myriad souls akin to yourself, resonating with similar sentiments. No doubt, I will encounter more when I return to Korea next year.

Yet, the fortune of your youth offers you the gift of reevaluation and growth on your journey ahead. Best of luck ♥
Well, I am not young at all, probably one of the oldest guys here.

But what you say makes sense because actually, what I found out is that learning languages like a 5 years old kid works best for me. I mean, going through the learning procedure of a kid until adulthood, and not learning a language treating me like an adult directly. But the issue is that language schools or tutors can't handle that, and I can't enter in a primary school being an adult.

Although it does not surprise me I am considered pesimistic while I am just being realistic, my reality. I am used to that.

But I have patience, even if I don't have the brains. Learning languages is fun, specially if the language I am learning is as interesting as japanese. That's why I've been throwing away the frustration of forgetting simple things over and over and just focus on having fun. You really don't know how stressful is to usually forget a person I've met a few days ago, or waking up in the morning not remembering what did I have for dinner last weekend. But I've learnt to live with it :).

Best luck to you too!
 
Not exactly. Japanese N1 is very difficult, much more than doing a B1.

To put it simple: oral stuff is what 95% of people learns first, because people prefer to talk with other people instead of giving writing the priority. It makes sense, as writing japanese is very difficult, so you're going to invest a lot of time on that. And N1 test is going to have kanjis that even regular japanese people do not recognize.

I've been studying japanese for 3 years but I gave writing the absolute priority, so I ended not knowing how to have a basic conversation, but that's also on me, because as you said, japanese is a grammar hell for people who come from european languages, and after 3 years I can't understand a sentence completely if I don't read it backwards, it's just very difficult for my head.

That's why I really dislike when people tell me "japanese is not that difficult". I completely disagree, for me japanese is harder than studying engineering, they have particles that simply make no sense, adjectives that are conjugated, verbs at the end of the sentence, present and past mixed up depending on what is supposed to be the order of actions and everything is seasoned with more than 2000 ideograms you have to learn how to read. And no, they don't read one way, they have multiple readings that you should know, so it's like hitting my head hard because my language uses just alphabet with 25 symbols I have to learn, and they read always the same way, verbs go in the middle of the sentence and particles are totally different.

So, when I say japanese is difficult, believe me, it is as difficult as hell.

Yes you have to devote much more time in Japanese for N1 which would be B1 in another language. In my school it is:
1 year for n5, 2 for N4, 2 for N3, 2 for N2. Don't remember N1, 1 or 2 years probably.

With that study you can reach C1 or even C2 level in other languages.
I refer to the speaking and writing level covered in language schools and exams.
The Japanese teachers told us themselves that N1 is at the most equal to B1.Even the Kanji you learn at that level (2000) is far from the 3000 required number to read the basic everyday text.
 
Yes you have to devote much more time in Japanese for N1 which would be B1 in another language. In my school it is:
1 year for n5, 2 for N4, 2 for N3, 2 for N2. Don't remember N1, 1 or 2 years probably.

With that study you can reach C1 or even C2 level in other languages.
I refer to the speaking and writing level covered in language schools and exams.
The Japanese teachers told us themselves that N1 is at the most equal to B1.Even the Kanji you learn at that level (2000) is far from the 3000 required number to read the basic everyday text.
Ohh I see. The teacher in my school told us that, after 3 years we are still not in N4 but we can try. The course is 6 years and after you finish it you're supposed to have N3, which is equivalent to B2.1. To reach B2.2 you need another 2 extra years, and with it you could do the test for N2, but there is no guarantee on passing it.

That's what she told us, and she knows a lot of japanese, she even translates old books from spanish into japanese, I've never asked her if she had the N1 but I would guess she does.

So, it might depend on the country of studying? thinking even getting a N3 gives me a little headache lol.
 
a cartoon of a man looking through binoculars next to a boy holding a piece of paper .

Fascinating. 魅力的な
 
これはもはや日本語のスッドレではありませんね…
Post automatically merged:

Ok, this actually make curious, are all Japanese people who visit this site good at English?
 
これはもはや日本語のスッドレではありませんね…
Post automatically merged:

Ok, this actually make curious, are all Japanese people who visit this site good at English?
もしもアリマセンガ、私は日本人でありません。超動遊びになったばかりです
 
Ohh I see. The teacher in my school told us that, after 3 years we are still not in N4 but we can try. The course is 6 years and after you finish it you're supposed to have N3, which is equivalent to B2.1. To reach B2.2 you need another 2 extra years, and with it you could do the test for N2, but there is no guarantee on passing it.

That's what she told us, and she knows a lot of japanese, she even translates old books from spanish into japanese, I've never asked her if she had the N1 but I would guess she does.

So, it might depend on the country of studying? thinking even getting a N3 gives me a little headache lol.
N3 is definitely not equal to B2 except in studying time perhaps. I took B2 French exams for adults some years ago and I remember the oral interview topic was about medical hospital visits and appointment issues, something definitely not covered by N3.
 
N3 is definitely not equal to B2 except in studying time perhaps. I took B2 French exams for adults some years ago and I remember the oral interview topic was about medical hospital visits and appointment issues, something definitely not covered by N3.
I see, then it is defenitely depending on the school and books. In my course, 3rd year already covers police conversations and health issues, and I am not even a N4.
 

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