Re-make, Re-master, Re-gret

[Deleted member 25310]

I'm not a fan of the updated graphics but you can switch those off, obviously you can emulate the game for free so I hesitate to recommend it to anyone around here. For fans of the series though I do think it's a love letter, the lady that helped advise the team is a fairly well known mega fan of the game. Quite a lot of content that was cut from the base can be viewed under the bonus content options. As far as I'm aware the changes are toggleable, I can't comment on the control scheme but knowing Aspyr they almost certainly haven't done anything silly. The game has been very competently ported to modern systems.

I was interested in playing these games, good to know fans love the remasters, but I think I'll stick to the OGs for now, but I am interested in the new content, honestly the reason why I'm interested in these re-releases in the first place, things that didn't make the original cut.

 

[DunkeyKong]

I agree with everyone here, some remakes and remasters are just unnecessary. If done right though, they can still deliver some fantastic change.

Maybe not a big change visually as that can ruined what made these original games unique, but making it look much clearer (not fancier), HD texture stuff like Wind Waker

They have the ip's though so, all I can do is watch whether they will make it better or destroy it

 

[Stingy Perry Stingy Perry]

Warcraft 3 and Silent Hill it’s bad I ya not worth your time.

 

[What's His Face]

Now in terms of good remakes, the Resident Evil 1 remake is an obvious example of how remakes should be done. Faithful to the original while still expanding on it in fun and interesting ways, and mixing it up a little bit to make it a new experience without straying from the core gameplay of the OG.

My only issue with REmake was Lisa Trevor. Now, I like the character and the story behind her. But by the time Capcom made REmake the series had progressed to the point that the only thing they could do with the character as a "super-big bad" was immediately kill them off and never use them again. Which felt like a giant waste of a fantastic idea.
...
<_<
...
>_>
...
Unless Capcom wanted to do what that one fanfic did with Lisa. IYKYK...

 

[Bakuma1997]

The Pixel remasters, i love the things they did right, such as QoL, but considering the amounts of content the previous remakes add being axed, they feel undercooked, also they miss the point of some scenes, the battle with Emperor in II Looks imposing on the NES' black screen and the remake's crystaline field, in PR... just look how they (Slightly, to be fair) massacred my boy

Speaking of II, they also brought back the cheap mechanics of the NES version instead of the fairer GBA/PSP versions, and that's only one game, the rest also axe not only bonus dongeons, but also some mechanics... Y?

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

For me the perfect remake is Resident Evil REmake.

Resident Evil 3 Remake is everything I ever wanted it to be and is my "arcade ultimax" version of RE speed run delights. There... I said it.

 

[Cu-Neo]

Resident Evil 3 Remake is everything I ever wanted it to be and is my "arcade ultimax" version of RE speed run delights. There... I said it.

I like it too, even got all achivements and I enjoyed doing it more than 2 remake.

(that nemesis fight on Inferno can go to S.T.A.R.S hell)
but I admit that the release price was ridiculous.

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

I like it too, even got all achivements and I enjoyed doing it more than 2 remake.
View attachment 8331
(that nemesis fight on Inferno can go to S.T.A.R.S hell)
but I admit that the release price was ridiculous.

I hit platinum on PS. Ditto the price tho. I deeply wish that Capcom could commit to smaller games done in this way. These days, people scream bloody murder if a game doesn't contain an entire inner-universe. I have a deep appreciation for "arcade feels" and Capcom hits that note near perfectly... Every time.

 

[DunkeyKong]

I like it too, even got all achivements and I enjoyed doing it more than 2 remake.
View attachment 8331
(that nemesis fight on Inferno can go to S.T.A.R.S hell)
but I admit that the release price was ridiculous.

Yo that's amazing, how many games have you 100% the achievements?

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

Yo that's amazing, how many games have you 100% the achievements?

Just RE3 Remake and Village. For me, I typically shy away from doing too much. Once I have 'beaten' a game, it ruins the magic. In Skyrim, I have about 3000 hours, but I have never... ever... never... (glances left, then right) done more than just the first 3 or maybe 4 "main quests." I enjoy the slow burn and brake with that timeless "feel-good" run.

 

[Lena CE]

The undisputed king of horrible remakes/remaster attempts would be Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD. I enjoyed the game well enough to 100% it (as in complete /every/ character) on both PS3 and 360, but when compared to the source material it was an absolute travesty. Glitchy controls, a lack of any meaningful updates, broken mechanics, awkward art style and a real lack of soul when updating any aspect of the game. It just plays worse in almost every way whilst only including half of the content from the original 2 THPS games. Again, I'm enough of a fan of THPS' arcadey feel and flow that even the worst version of THPS is an enjoyable time for me (I even platinumed THPS5) but my god to take such timeless classics and make them so mediocre is almost impressive.

This will be a controversial pick but I’m gonna say it anyways. I don’t like the N.sane trilogy all that much if I’m being perfectly honest.

Honestly, it's a very uncontroversial take and as the years have gone on the general consensus for N.Sane has gotten worse and worse. It is still my preferred way to play Crash 1 despite how horrid the blood affects the atmosphere, but I'll always go back to Crash 2 and 3 on PS1. I didn't hate N.Sane, but my goodness it is a weird moment for Vicarious Visions where they just did not put their best foot forward.

Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster was a disaster of cut content.

They didn't really cut much of anything though? They changed a lot for sure, but they didn't really /cut/ much of anything aside from erotica bonus as far as I'm aware. Changing stuff like the VAs and some dialogue to remove certain references was silly but I think the new team does a decent enough job. Most of the gameplay updates are pretty welcome overall. It is a shame we couldn't get the original cast and script with the gameplay and visual updates provided here because that would definitely be my preferred way to play, but for what it is it's a great version. People were understandably upset about some of the changes but I really feel like we can stop being overly dramatic by calling it a disaster and implying they cut a bunch of stuff.

Were people really that married to the Vietnam War being mentioned by name? Butcher's race change was certainly odd but is it really some kind of disaster?

 

[DunkeyKong]

Just RE3 Remake and Village. For me, I typically shy away from doing too much. Once I have 'beaten' a game, it ruins the magic. In Skyrim, I have about 3000 hours, but I have never... ever... never... (glances left, then right) done more than just the first 3 or maybe 4 "main quests." I enjoy the slow burn and brake with that timeless "feel-good" run.

I was asking Cu Neo but that's cool man! Skyrim is just that good

 

[Cu-Neo]

Yo that's amazing, how many games have you 100% the achievements?

On steam 5 (6 in reality but Atlus took it away with the Episode Aigis DLC)
On Playstation I had 13

(The photo is from 2021)

Now on 360 I repeat some like the Mass effect ones ?

 

[Skeetos]

RE3make and Dead Rising Deluxe Remaster are probably the most disappointing for me. They cut so much for no reason. The thing about it though is that they're still competently made. Dead Rising less so with the bugs it has at times and there being no reflections on mirrors. My favorites are probably CTR Nitro Fueled and Dead Space. REmake will always be one of the best examples of how to faithfully recreate a game while adding to it. I don't think the problem is remaking the games. The problem comes from the fact that all of these companies as of late only care about the money it's going to make and not the product itself or how the fans will react. I think when you remake a game you should think about how the reaction to it was at the time and try to live up to how much the fans care.
I saw someone mention how they dislike the N. Sane Trilogy. I get that. The music was horribly remade except a few outliers, and the physics were different especially if you played as Coco. But that's also one where I don't think it's terrible. I played it again 100% recently and still really liked the added time trials to Crash 1 and 2, and I think they recreated that artstyle really well. But it was also made by Vicarious Visions, and they have history with the franchise before Activision came in and left it dormant for 9 years. I think Remasters are cool as long as they don't mess with too much. The Turok remasters are ones I really appreciate because I don't really have prior nostalgia for them besides recently playing them on PC. The N64 versions are rough. Good, but rough. I also think the Perfect Dark XBLA remaster is one that improves on the original without changing too much. It all depends on the designers.

 

[Boo Man]

This will be a controversial pick but I’m gonna say it anyways. I don’t like the N.sane trilogy all that much if I’m being perfectly honest.
Good thread btw. Great opportunity to relay a lot of my frustrations with remakes.

i really like the work Vicarious Visions has done, they make games look really good!
unfortunately they only make games look good and don't have anything to do with actual game mechanics and thats kinda the most important thing.
The N.sane trilogy is just broken imo

Vicarious Visions also remade Diablo 2 with "D2 Resurrected" and it looks perfect!
unfortunately its a Blizzard game and they broke almost all the mechanics,
completely destroying a classic masterpiece, oh and then VV was absorbed into Blizzard right before they self imploded with the failure of D4 and basically all their other games

 

[DunkeyKong]

On steam 5 (6 in reality but Atlus took it away with the Episode Aigis DLC)
On Playstation I had 13
View attachment 8342
(The photo is from 2021)

Now on 360 I repeat some like the Mass effect ones ?

That's quite a lot! Mass Effect trilogy is one of the best to replay

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

In the modern landscape many are creatively bankrupt and customers keep buying up the sloppy products, so it will (un)fortunately [there is pessimistic or optimistic ways to view this] keep happening and the icing on the cake is the crisis of competency ongoing. Remakes and remasters could be good, but in a time where videogames are on top of motion pictures I don't feel like anything is going to be worth purchasing or even sailing for for me personally.

You are correct. It is intertwined with a specific form of intraction (Middle Eastern and Asian in origin). It is related to how we 'socialize' as we 'socially' engage with a 'society' that interacts via 'social media' within the considerations of being 'socialized.' (wink) You see, when a body is so large... It would be simpler if there was some kind of... 'majikal'... way for the body to manage it self. If only there was a way for every body to have a list of chores that never ends. And that list has things you have to do and includes things you have to buy. (grins) You don't want to, but... you will have to. Like a 'thunk' of a man pulling a cart with a mule on it. It generates 'funs' like that.

 

[Yousef]

.
I saw someone mention how they dislike the N. Sane Trilogy. I get that.

That was me!

The music was horribly remade except a few outliers, and the physics were different especially if you played as Coco.

Yup….

But that's also one where I don't think it's terrible. I played it again 100% recently and still really liked the added time trials to Crash 1 and 2, and I think they recreated that artstyle really well. But it was also made by Vicarious Visions, and they have history with the franchise before Activision came in and left it dormant for 9 years.

Yup… I love Vic actually.

 

[Lena CE]

Vicarious Visions also remade Diablo 2 with "D2 Resurrected" and it looks perfect!
unfortunately its a Blizzard game and they broke almost all the mechanics,
completely destroying a classic masterpiece, oh and then VV was absorbed into Blizzard right before they self imploded with the failure of D4 and basically all their other games

I think you're the first person I've seen say that D2 "broke almost all the mechanics". I played a lot of D2 back in the day and Resurrected is pretty much the same game under the hood but with a lot of smart QoL enhancements. You can pretty much recreate any old build, cheese strat or loot run and not feel much of a difference. What exactly did they break that feels so fundamentally different that it destroyed the game for you?

When people say that about Crash 2 or 3 from N.Sane I get it because the altered physics suit Crash 1 and so a couple things in 2 and 3 become more difficult or finnicky. It's a case of "it feels similar until it suddenly doesn't" kind of things.

 

[moonbits]

I've always been curious about remakes from a pure mechanical standpoint. Resident Evil 2 and 4 were outstanding achievements in how they modernized a classic. I recently just played Demon Souls on PS5 and I wasn't very into the art style and assets but I will say that mechanically the game felt really solid, though the AI was rather wonky.

 

[Pockets]

This might ruffle some feathers but if I'm being honest, I kind of hate what this remake/remaster trend has done to the perception of older games. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing classic games being brought back but there's something about the way these games are being brought back that bothers me.

Whether it's a full remake or a remaster, I feel like there's this widespread mindset amongst both developers and players that older games don't have value as they are and need to be updated whether it be graphically or mechanically to fit modern standards in order to justify re-releasing them.

I feel like a lot of games would benefit greatly from just a resolution bump, an improved frame rate and better load times but for a lot of people that doesn't seem to be enough so instead we get all these projects that completely overhaul the graphics and sound or change the gameplay in some way. At a certain point when you make so many changes I feel like you start to lose something.

 

[middler]

This might ruffle some feathers but if I'm being honest, I kind of hate what this remake/remaster trend has done to the perception of older games. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing classic games being brought back but there's something about the way these games are being brought back that bothers me.

Whether it's a full remake or a remaster, I feel like there's this widespread mindset amongst both developers and players that older games don't have value as they are and need to be updated whether it be graphically or mechanically to fit modern standards in order to justify re-releasing them.

I feel like a lot of games would benefit greatly from just a resolution bump, an improved frame rate and better load times but for a lot of people that doesn't seem to be enough so instead we get all these projects that completely overhaul the graphics and sound or change the gameplay in some way. At a certain point when you make so many changes I feel like you start to lose something.

I think that it 70% cash grab and 30% not understanding what players really want. Instead of having to develop a whole new story for an IP that hasn't had love in a while, they reskin the old story, update the control scheme and convince people that the original is inferior because of its age.

But, we here at RGT generally know that is not true :)

A total re-imagining is one thing (ala FF7 re-re-re), where actual effort is being made to take the old and actually make new with it. Those however seen to be the exception not the rule.

 

[Lena CE]

I think that it 70% cash grab and 30% not understanding what players really want. Instead of having to develop a whole new story for an IP that hasn't had love in a while, they reskin the old story, update the control scheme and convince people that the original is inferior because of its age.

This would feel truer if the games didn't consistently review and sell well. The unfortunate truth is that if Capcom just rereleased Resident Evil 2 it would not have made as much money as the remake did. Same for FF7R, same for MGS3 or Silent Hill 2.

Hell, if you just poke around gaming spaces online you just see people constantly complaining about dormant IPs or begging old IP to come back. While our shitty market incentives definitely drive companies to want to make franchises out of everything, that's mainly because consumers unfortunately signal with their wallets and words over and over again that what they really want is just for every franchise they love to be an infinite sequel mill. Every few years they just want another entry in whatever they grew up loving. A franchise ending or - even worse - being a one-off thing is seen as some sort of betrayal. People will ignore the reality that there are far more IP in existence than there are talented dev studios willing to take these games on or even time in the year to release them all without them cannibalizing each other.

And I don't think they really care, because really, they just want moremoremore!

It is depressing as an attitude but it also extends to remakes and remasters. There are countless games that people will refuse to play even if it is available because it looks to old or the controls are "out of date" or the game has "aged bad" (a phrase I think is never true fwiw). They don't wanna play a fixed camera horror game with tank controls or intentionally janky combat. They want a Silent Hill 2 remake that is over the shoulder and plays just as smoothly as every other over the shoulder action game released in the last decade. Now that they have it, they'll ignore the original 2 even harder. It is truly a shame.

 

[BinaryMessiah]

In the end, I enjoy most remakes if they are done right. People forget; the original game isn't erased from history. They are still there. A lot of times this makes games more accessible to a new audience. The most recent System Shock remake was fantastic. Anything Nightdive Studios does is gold. I love the Resident Evil remakes. I think they have set the standard for AAA remakes. Dead Space was fantastic as well. I believe Silent Hill 2 raised the standard even further.

I think people get caught up too much in the fine details. There will be artist interpretations, things getting cut due to technical issues, or things changed, etc. However, there are just abhorrent remakes like the Warcraft 3 Reforged, GTA Trilogy (which has been patched up nicely as of December, by the way). Silent Hill HD was due to just not having the resources available. It was an HD port, not a remake from the ground up. The devs were fighting an uphill battle.

I think the industry has evolved with remakes. There are far less "HD remasters" and I think many forget just how bad they were back in the day. Devil May Cry HD Collection wasn't that great. Most were rushed and lazy ports. God of War Collection for Vita was atrocious. All of the HD ports of Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank ran terribly on the Vita. Many were just "upscale this to 720p/1080p and call it a day". Poor optimization, no extra content, and with no excuse. We have come a long way.

 

[ATenderLad]

This might ruffle some feathers but if I'm being honest, I kind of hate what this remake/remaster trend has done to the perception of older games. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing classic games being brought back but there's something about the way these games are being brought back that bothers me.

Whether it's a full remake or a remaster, I feel like there's this widespread mindset amongst both developers and players that older games don't have value as they are and need to be updated whether it be graphically or mechanically to fit modern standards in order to justify re-releasing them.

I feel like a lot of games would benefit greatly from just a resolution bump, an improved frame rate and better load times but for a lot of people that doesn't seem to be enough so instead we get all these projects that completely overhaul the graphics and sound or change the gameplay in some way. At a certain point when you make so many changes I feel like you start to lose something.

I'm half-interested in remakes, if only because Capcom is good at it, but certainly the major problem is that all these old games are leveraged as IP for potential revenue streams, with no official preservation effort to speak of.

There was this weirdly cool moment, when all the major movie streaming services started up, where they all offered a repository of sorts for most of their films. Paramount Plus had shit I'd never seen, and hundred year old films like some of the Frank L Baum production company Wizard of Oz movies. (I mean, they weren't good, but still!) It only took a few months for them all to realize they weren't making money, and panicked and had to start licensing out all of their content to anyone who would buy it, but what a vision of the future that felt like.

We'll never see a library or repository like that for games for about the same reason, no profit incentive, but it's more painful in this case; old gaming hardware breaks down and the software designed for it can't be transferred or adapted without serious effort, as opposed to watching film the same way we always have. (Or at least, since the nickelodeons on the boardwalks fell out of vogue.)