Question for the JRPG nerds...

[MrChester]

You know how combat in a lot of the modern Final Fantasy games use a system that blends 3D real time movement with turn based actions? Like in the Final Fantasy 7 Remake you move around and slash but your magic is tied to an ATB gauge. It's the same system you see in Ni No Kuni and a bunch of other JRPGs.

Anyway, I was just wondering what game did this sort of thing first?

I've been playing through Parasite Eve recently which uses that system. It released in 1998 and it got me thinking that it might be the progenitor. So, yeah, someone come prove me wrong...

P.S. I'm interested in people stretching the definition but if you come to me saying the Mana series is what I'm after you've stretched it too far and it snapped

 

[Graw]

Off the top of my head Valkyria chronicles. The tales of series is also an action hybrid, might be a bit more on the action side though. It's been a while since I played any of them but I seem to remember being able to pause when selecting magic and abilities but maybe i'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member 525181]

Good question, i dont know which game started this, but i know that this type of gameplay is for braindead kids who have anxiety issues and cant think for 1 second.

They butchered Final Fantasy VII with this horrid gameplay IMHO, and lets not start talking about Final Fantasy XVI. It should be called "Devil May Cry: Final Fantasy"

PD: im not making a negative critic of other games with similar gameplay, just talking about what Final Fantasy has become.

 

[ATenderLad]

Mayyyyyybe Tales of Phantasia? You have (2D) movement and some freedom to attack with your primary character, and you can bring up a menu to have your party cast spells/use items and the like.

 

[PSVitaForever]

I don't know which game originally used the blended system, but I can give some other example:

"Eternal Sonata", during your turn you run around and mash a button to hit or to unleash magic, both melee or ranged, and during enemy turn you can push a button to guard (and you must stay still).

"FF12" and "Xenoblade Chronicles", I'm not sure why but they remind me one of another, you run around but you still have to wait between every action AND these two games in particular never clicked for me, because of the combat system (yes I know about gambits, yes I know they are a wonderful designed thing to make the battle less boring, yes I know it all and I'm happy for people who enjoy this title, but still all that management did not click with me)

"Dissidia 012", this one is thrown in because I remember you have to click buttons to make the character run, hit, and do special abilities, but I think you also run around (yes, it's not a real rpg but more a fighting game, but not really like Dead or Alive, for example), but if I remember correct in the easy mode you click the button and then the character will do the action even if far from the other player, you don't have to mash buttons

"Crisis Core FF7" on PSP, I played it long ago but you had to push buttons to attack and make magics and use items but still I think you had to wait a bit between action, or in any case you had to choose any action through a menu onscreen and click to launch the action, so not classic turn based but not really real time either? I liked this game a lot, though, almost bought a psp to play it.

 

[DanVzare]

I mean... Secret of Mana had a kind of similar system. Although you could still attack before your gauge filled, it just wouldn't do any damage. I'm not sure if the game before Secret of Mana (Final Fantasy Adventure) did the same thing though.

 

[MrChester]

My God. Guys, please read the post before you respond.
1) I'm specifically asking for games that pre-date Parasite Eve (1998)
2) No, the mana series doesn't really count because realistically that's just an action game with some very very light RPG elements

@ATenderLad great suggestion! This is a tough one because it does fit but I have a weird reservation on it. I'm not super familiar with Tales - looking at it makes me wanna say it looks more like an action game but with the gimmick that you pause it to select items and perform supers... however that isn't very far off what I'm asking to begin with, and might well have inspired the exact systems I'm asking about

 

[Evaccaneer Doom]

You know how combat in a lot of the modern Final Fantasy games use a system that blends 3D real time movement with turn based actions? Like in the Final Fantasy 7 Remake you move around and slash but your magic is tied to an ATB gauge. It's the same system you see in Ni No Kuni and a bunch of other JRPGs.
View attachment 66709View attachment 66710

Anyway, I was just wondering what game did this sort of thing first?

I've been playing through Parasite Eve recently which uses that system. It released in 1998 and it got me thinking that it might be the progenitor. So, yeah, someone come prove me wrong...

P.S. I'm interested in people stretching the definition but if you come to me saying the Mana series is what I'm after you've stretched it too far and it snapped

Action RPGs? The progenitor for those would probably be Tales of Phantasia, released on SNES (1995) and later ported to PS1 (1998)

 

[Cantarella]

Take a look at Star Ocean 1 (SNES.) Not quite 100% on your requirements, but do you think that fits?

edit: maybe not. I guess there's not a lot of 'turns' in star ocean 1 unless we start defining turns using frame data lol...

It's hard to think of early examples of this. I think Vagrant Story is closer but it's 1999. I wouldn't say Phantasia strictly fits either for the same reason as SO1

 

[freebie#47]

I would go with Radia Senki for the nes in 1991. It fulfills your requirements and is a decent game.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

I'd say Star Ocean and Tales of Phantasia were the precursors to real time action with commands style jrpgs. Final Fantasy XII also did something like that before remake.

 

[nobitakun]

But there's something not mentioned here, that makes a big difference: does the option menu pauses the entire game or it is completely real time? because if the game is paused completely while you choose your commands / magic / items then for me is not real time, let alone when you can spam attacks and only magic uses ATB. Same example as for you Secret of Mana isn't a RPG.

So, you basically are looking for an action RPG that keeps you from spamming magic like crazy :)

I believe you're not going to find many games that are like Parasite Eve that were launched before Parasite Eve, because the ones mentioned here could be considered to fit but are being discarded for some reason :(.

I only had in mind Seiken Densetsu 2 & 3, Tenchi Sozo, Illusion of Gaia, Soulblazer family, or even Alundra.

 

[Inkingsama]

Does king's field count? You have a stamina bar and a magic bar that deplete when you attack with your sword or use magic and you have to dodge enemy attacks in real time, however, KF is more of a dungeon crawler than a RPG like FF and such

 

[_oBSOLEte_]

Early dungeon crawlers that mixed tic-based and real time combat with pauses in menus, maybe.

It may be a chicken egg situation really.

 

[MrChester]

Action RPGs? The progenitor for those would probably be Tales of Phantasia, released on SNES (1995) and later ported to PS1 (1998)

I tried to avoid saying ARPGs because I'm looking for something very specific, thus the reason I gave 3 examples that are all very similar to one another. Imo something like the Mana series is very much just an action game but because you get to see the numbers and it being from Japan people prefer to call it an ARPG. Like if you could see damage figures in DmC I think a lot of people would call it an ARPG and that to me is kinda vapid.

Take a look at Star Ocean 1 (SNES.) Not quite 100% on your requirements, but do you think that fits?

edit: maybe not. I guess there's not a lot of 'turns' in star ocean 1 unless we start defining turns using frame data lol...

It's hard to think of early examples of this. I think Vagrant Story is closer but it's 1999. I wouldn't say Phantasia strictly fits either for the same reason as SO1

Interesting! I'm not well versed on SO1 so I'll look myself. I heard Vagrant Story "expands on the system seen in Parasite Eve" but I've never played it

So, you basically are looking for an action RPG that keeps you from spamming magic like crazy :)

I believe you're not going to find many games that are like Parasite Eve that were launched before Parasite Eve, because the ones mentioned here could be considered to fit but are being discarded for some reason :(.

I don't think I could be much more clear that I'm looking for something quite specific - an almost exact and formulaic system. I am very stoked at the enthusiasm from people... but a lot of these responses feel less like an attempt to answer the question and more and excuse to just bring up an ARPG they like. It's awesome because I'm getting a lot of things to look into but also a bit of a pain. Also Soulblazer and Suikoden I think might be a good shout, so thanks.

Does king's field count? You have a stamina bar and a magic bar that deplete when you attack with your sword or use magic and you have to dodge enemy attacks in real time, however, KF is more of a dungeon crawler than a RPG like FF and such

Honestly I'm not sure because idk King's Field but maybe. Based on Google images it looks more like a Kowloon Chronicles type system but I'll do my own looking. Thank you

Post automatically merged: May 7, 2025

Sorry to be a downer, guys. I just really am not looking for the first ARPG and am more interested in a specific style of combat. Some awesome game suggestions in general though

 

[Clippy]

If you're looking for games that let you move around while still being tied to a turn-based combat system then maybe a game like Emerald Dragon would be up your alley. If that's the case then chances are you'll have to dig into the Japanese PC scene to find to first title of this kind since console stuff was either full-blown action or turn-based at the time I think.

 

[AkiMiyake]

You know how combat in a lot of the modern Final Fantasy games use a system that blends 3D real time movement with turn based actions? Like in the Final Fantasy 7 Remake you move around and slash but your magic is tied to an ATB gauge. It's the same system you see in Ni No Kuni and a bunch of other JRPGs.
View attachment 66709View attachment 66710

Anyway, I was just wondering what game did this sort of thing first?

I've been playing through Parasite Eve recently which uses that system. It released in 1998 and it got me thinking that it might be the progenitor. So, yeah, someone come prove me wrong...

P.S. I'm interested in people stretching the definition but if you come to me saying the Mana series is what I'm after you've stretched it too far and it snapped

Hi!
so I'm pretty sure the first to do this type of thing was Tales of phantasia (1995) for the Super Famicom (SNES in Japan)
one of the first to combine real-time movement and attacks within a side-scrolling battle system. It wasn't 3D, but it laid important groundwork.

I think that evolution into the 3D world was with star ocean: Till The End Of Time (2003)
Real-time movement and action combat in a 3D space with controlled characters and AI party members.

 

[UnDubious]

Secret of Mana is not "very much an action game" lol, it's barely even a proper action RPG as it's less action than most. And it is related to this style of gameplay, because in order for your attacks to do proper damage you have to let a gauge fill up each time. So in practice, it's an evolution of the ATB system from Final Fantasy IV but with free movements.

 

[Strategist's icon Strategist Strategist]

Secret of Mana is not "very much an action game" lol, it's barely even a proper action RPG as it's less action than most. And it is related to this style of gameplay, because in order for your attacks to do proper damage you have to let a gauge fill up each time. So in practice, it's an evolution of the ATB system from Final Fantasy IV but with free movements.

Just because it has a meter, doesn't mean it stops being an action game. You could totally spam attacks if you wanted to, they just do paltry damage. And that mechanic went away in the subsequent games in the series, thankfully.

 

[UnDubious]

Just because it has a meter, doesn't mean it stops being an action game. You could totally spam attacks if you wanted to, they just do paltry damage. And that mechanic went away in the subsequent games in the series, thankfully.

You can but it's pointless typically, which means it's not how you're supposed to play it. Typically it really plays out like an ATB wait you're constantly waiting for it to fill so you can attack. So if you look for the root of that hybrid system in Japanese RPGs, it's really it.

 

[Sinmenon]

In Final Fantasy 7 Remake + Rebirth's specific case, the system is an evolution of the system in Final Fantasy Crisis Core (the og on the PSP) and Before Crisis (on mobile). Then the next versions of that system was used in Final Fantasy XV and Type-0. And, finally, back to the FF7.
It also makes sense that Parasite Eve uses a similar system, as both Hironobu Sakaguchi and Tetsuya Nomura were involved in that game too.
Final Fantasy XII was inspired by the MMOs of the time, like Lineage 2. While they do have the turn, they are not exactly the same vibe.

Tales of Phantasia (1995) and Star Ocean (1996) that had this side view + turn based approach, both on the SNES. There's also Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean (1996) that was to be originally on the SNES but ended up coming for Saturn. I believe those are the earliest ones.

Even to this day the Tales of series largely offers this style, some you move in the 2D plane and others have 3D move like in FF7R. You can play Tales of Destiny, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Symphonia and many others.
Swordcraft Story 1 and 2 on the GBA also use this system, with the added crafting that you are the blacksmith (and also have a summon partner).

 

[UnDubious]

This is from a 1993 interview about Secret of Mana:

"Koiichi Ishii: Part of the difficulty was that we were trying to hybridize a traditional turn-based RPG and an action RPG, and that brought up a lot of unexpected problems. If we had tried to make a pure action RPG, I think it would have been easier, but our way necessitated a lot of time-consuming revisions."

The creator acknowledges that it's a hybrid system. OP keeps saying "the Mana series", which means he probably thinks they all play the same. They don't. Secret is a hybrid system.

Post automatically merged: May 8, 2025

There's also Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean (1996) that was to be originally on the SNES but ended up coming for Saturn.

Don't know where you got that info, but Albert Odyssey on the Saturn has a regular turn-based system.

 

[Zerohour2k12]

I'm a little late on playing the old Tales and Seiken Densetsu but I'd say the first I encountered this kind of battle system was in Crisis Core, Valkyrie Profile and Parasite Eve. And I get similar vibes(though not real time.) on Vagrant Story.

 

[MDGeistsfavMC5song]

If you're looking for games that let you move around while still being tied to a turn-based combat system then maybe a game like Emerald Dragon would be up your alley. If that's the case then chances are you'll have to dig into the Japanese PC scene to find to first title of this kind since console stuff was either full-blown action or turn-based at the time I think.

emerald dragon is a fantastic game and was hugely influential to jrpgs going forward, but does it matter that you can only control your team mates indirectly thru a menu and even then only more like a suggestion? i was surprised how much i enjoyed emerald dragon with the english patch last year..

 

[Cantarella]

yeah I definitely think you could make the argument for secret of mana. In practice, % meter really does function as a kind of primordial ATB. Then your older brother takes control of the sprite character and it turns into a different game.

Unless that Radia Senki game counts. Have not played it myself and it's a little hard to tell from footage, but it does look like a precursor at a glance!