Piracy Shaming in Retro Gaming Culture

Psychonara

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Being a bit on the older side, I've seen the retro & underground gaming scene change a lot over the years online. Has anyone else ever gotten this impression in the last decade or so that people are more afraid to admit they pirated stuff or have a weird condescending attitude about it?

This is probably just something in the youtube space where folks are concerned about being sponsor & advertiser friendly, but when I was a kid, emulation sort of went hand-in-hand with piracy (and still more or less does), but the way some people talk about emulation, there's almost like this fear of admitting everyone using these emulators or emulation devices is probably not downloading their stuff entirely legally.

Anyone else get that feeling? I mean, every time the whole debate about game preservation or digital vs physical kicks off on social media or youtube or wherever, I feel like as soon as I say "Can't you just download the rom?" that I'm likely to get this kind of reaction:

1782598829189.png



EDIT: also mods, if you need to move this thread, be my guest.
 
I don't admit to pirating on Twitch or YouTube to cover my ass and to avoid bringing unwanted attention to piracy sites like this one, but if I'm here, in a DM with a friend, or talking to people in real life, I openly admit it and no one cares. Anyone I know with the technical knowledge does it too.
 
i laugh at people who pay for things that are free
on another forum some guy was bragging about paying for YT premium
i told him that i just use an ad blocker that is free
he refuse to listen and called me poor because im not stupid like him 🤷‍♂️
 
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most of the places where i used to buy stuff have either closed or changed so much and even buying online they often rip you off with extra charges - so fuck that , i will happily get it freely if i can . i do understand about physical media preservation though and i think it's sad that it seems to be dying out , but for me - modern gaming is dead because all the best stuff was out over 15 or 20 years ago.
 
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I don't admit to pirating on Twitch or YouTube to cover my ass and to avoid bringing unwanted attention to piracy sites like this one, but if I'm here, in a DM with a friend, or talking to people in real life, I openly admit it and no one cares. Anyone I know with the technical knowledge does it too.

And that's perfectly understandable. I guess what I'm driving at is two things: 1.) that there's a lot of younger people who don't seem to know how easy it is to emulate & by extension pirate games & 2.) People who you know they know that you know they pirated this stuff acting like they would NEVER do that because of some kind of strange "gamer cred" kind of deal.


I'm starting to feel like a boomer just for the fact that I emulate.
 
Let me tell you a story...

In the summer of 2007, a very young and awkward Sammy started making her way around the then-booming retro gaming scene and landed her eager but inexperienced ass in the middle of the aptly-named "RetroGaming" forum, a sewer of elitists that, unfortunately, were as toxic as they were knowledgeable (and they really did know their stuff).

At some point during those days, a random dude joined the conversation and created a single thread talking about how wonderful it was to emulate stuff, how great it was to finally catch up with all the gaming he had missed as a kid due to the momentary constraints of being little — perfectly normal junk to post about.

Oh, boy! The populace's reaction was something else entirely.

Not only users, but mods and admins tore into this guy as if he had tried to justify and celebrate war crimes, going at it for eight whole pages while he single-handedly kept them at bay with SOUND ARGUMENTS and LOGIC - two things they couldn't fight against -.

They eventually banned him and locked the thread, but that was the moment (along with a few nasty DMs flung my way for taking similar stances) when my childish enthusiasm began to wane and I learned to keep my mouth shut around certain elements of the retro market.

Just awful that this shit even exists, man.
 
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Being a bit on the older side, I've seen the retro & underground gaming scene change a lot over the years online. Has anyone else ever gotten this impression in the last decade or so that people are more afraid to admit they pirated stuff or have a weird condescending attitude about it?

This is probably just something in the youtube space where folks are concerned about being sponsor & advertiser friendly, but when I was a kid, emulation sort of went hand-in-hand with piracy (and still more or less does), but the way some people talk about emulation, there's almost like this fear of admitting everyone using these emulators or emulation devices is probably not downloading their stuff entirely legally.

Anyone else get that feeling? I mean, every time the whole debate about game preservation or digital vs physical kicks off on social media or youtube or wherever, I feel like as soon as I say "Can't you just download the rom?" that I'm likely to get this kind of reaction:

View attachment 203239


EDIT: also mods, if you need to move this thread, be my guest.
Can't relate, everyone in my life pirates and/or is entirely fine doing so. Once told my mother about how it was pretty easy to do. She also caught me emulating once, didn't care.
 
I don't admit to pirating on Twitch or YouTube to cover my ass and to avoid bringing unwanted attention to piracy sites like this one, but if I'm here, in a DM with a friend, or talking to people in real life, I openly admit it and no one cares. Anyone I know with the technical knowledge does it too.
Yeah, used to do the same on more public spaces here and there
 
There should be national holidays where you force a local Nintendo fan to download Super Mario Bros. 3 and see if their head explodes like in Scanners.
Make it Super Mario 64 and we have a deal >:D
 
Pirating not only has made my childhood more accesible, also made it better looking/Playing, I can't get back to vanilla games now that i can patch most of them with QOL hacks

If people want to pay 60 bucks for unchanged roms that no longer add money to big fishes' wallets and rationalize it with "They are selling the experience, not the game" that's their funeral, but would rather get the full dex in Fire Red for free thanks to some guy with a PC
 
I hope I'm not being biased, and I apologize if I am, but I think this shame has a lot to do with first-world countries, where salaries are better, prices much more affordable, and vast availability of goods, so they have this mindset of finding the notion of pirating media very abhorrent, since you don't have to work "so hard" to afford things legally. Quite different from countries like Brazil, where I am, where most of the stuff is too much expensive, where families can only afford for their basic necessities at most, and some things were not even legally obtainable here. Many Atari and NES clones, like Dactar, Phantom System, Polystation, etc. were vastly popular here, due the fact our government allowed our local industries to legally produce them, and the official consoles would release only much later. Only the Master System was legally released here in the late 80's/early 90's, due to one of our companies, Tec Toy, making a partnership with Sega.
 
I bring up the argument of "I don't give a flying fuck what you think about me" to those people.

Now that that's out of the way, I said this a few days ago, and I stand by it... piracy has actually made me buy more stuff than it ever stopped me from buying. Yes, there are a few things I didn't purchase, but I kept the movie or game.... I was never going to buy those in the first place. Nothing was lost on either side. It's not like I walked into my local game store or retail outlet, broke the glass, and pocketed the movie or game.

I'm not in the habit of YO HO'ing new stuff either. No, I’m not going to go sailing the seven digital seas because a new Mortal Kombat movie came out. I'll probably rent it or buy it when it’s out.

As for gaming, retro collecting snobs can bitch and moan all they want about owning Game A or Game B. I could not care less If I tried to,..... okay.... congratulations on paying $500 for a game that originally cost $40-50. Congrats on the 4000% markup. I'll play the same game for free, keep my $500, and spend it on something else.... maybe more computer junk I don't need...

And some games are out of print, and pirating them was and is in fact, the only way to get them.. like Vampire: The Masquerade used to be before GOG. It used to go for ludicrous prices. No, I like the broken hot mess of a game, but not over $300 for it.

The point is, people who act like you're the devil on earth for pirating a game are just elitist assholes who have buyer’s remorse for paying $55,000 for the long box of Tekken on the PS1, while I paid nothing for a game I didn’t care about anyway.

annoyed doubt.gif


(And yes, the Tekken long box can sell on eBay for fifty-five thousand dollars.)
1782601238594.png
 
if you were accidently locked in a sweet shop all night - would you leave money on the counter before eating or simply eat as much as you can ? the internet is now that sweet shop but i am locked in for life
 
There's this old axiom: people are dumb.
A fabricated moral high ground based on being willingly subdued to absurd industry standards is the ultimate cope.
I believe Agent K, said it best Ragey
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
 
I hope I'm not being biased, and I apologize if I am, but I think this shame has a lot to do with first-world countries, where salaries are better, prices much more affordable, and vast availability of goods, so they have this mindset of finding the notion of pirating media very abhorrent, since you don't have to work "so hard" to afford things legally. Quite different from countries like Brazil, where I am, where most of the stuff is too much expensive, where families can only afford for their basic necessities at most, and some things were not even legally obtainable here. Many Atari and NES clones, like Dactar, Phantom System, Polystation, etc. were vastly popular here, due the fact our government allowed our local industries to legally produce them, and the official consoles would release only much later. Only the Master System was legally released here in the late 80's/early 90's, due to one of our companies, Tec Toy, making a partnership with Sega.

It's probably more of a first world phenomenon to the extent that such friction & bashfulness is related to the tensions that you find between the emulation community & the collector community.

For my part, I've always been more interested in how to "democratize" retro gaming. I'm far more interested in cheaper retro handhelds for instance than the ultra-expensive models and seeing what you can get out of a 40 dollar device off AliExpress vs something like the Retroid Pocket series (though I do like the Pocket). Part of this due to my awareness of the current state of the economy. With AI gooners driving up the memory prices and the general chip shortage, stuff isn't gonna be getting cheaper anytime soon. Budget friendly or minimalist options are always something on my mind to recommend to others. Even if one were to argue that piracy is unethical, I find it more unethical from my POV to hide the option to pirate, especially in the current state of the economy & the tech/games industry. At this rate, lots of us in North & South America may end up having to "Brazil it."

I will always try to support officially licensed releases if the price is right, but I don't think Shigeru Miyamoto is going to be living in a cardboard box if I don't buy some half-assed collection of emulated Mario games that are going to be taken off the e-shop in 6 months for 80 dollars.
 
there will be no food tonight somebody pirated a game i made in 1995.jpg

As far as I'm concerned - if you have money to burn and you want to own an original copy of a game then go for it. If anything, that used to part of the appeal when it came to buying games. You'd get a cool manual and other goodies along with your shiny new cartridge/disc unlike today.

But if you expect everyone to be able to cough up whatever money scalpers demand these days for the privilege of being able to play a video game made in 1992 and the original creators won't see a dime of it anyway... Don't be surprised when people laugh at you because that's exactly what you deserve.
 
I could be wrong, but I do believe that a lot of it is part of the mainstream media.
For many decades, we have seen on TV and the so-called "legacy media" that piracy is illegal, it is evil, and it would take the jobs of hard-working people. That is an evil and abhorrent act that could destroy the things we enjoy like movies, cartoons, and all the good stuff.

The thing is, when Netflix was in its infancy, they watched the torrent sites and saw the content people were looking for, and made it available in its service. The truth? If it is easily available through legal means, and at an affordable/reasonable price, people will rather get the legal one. Why does the Capcom legacy collections sell like hot cakes? Why are GOG and the Nintendo Virtual Console very solid choices? Because they are the easiest way to have access to older games that people know are good. And they usually have a reasonable price.

If the price is too high, people aren't going to buy. Simple as that. The music industry had sponsored research and tried to bury it because the results weren't what they wanted. Which research? This research:

EU withheld a study that shows piracy doesn't hurt sales
In 2013, the European Commission ordered a €360,000 ($430,000) study on how piracy affects sales of music, books, movies and games in the EU. However, it never ended up showing it to the public except for one cherry-picked section. That's possibly because the study concluded that there was no evidence that piracy affects copyrighted sales, and in the case of video games, might actually help them.
You can read the research here. It is an academic research published in 2016.

There are many reasons to malign piracy and abandonware. One of them is to force people to buy the new products through planned obsolescence, even if the new product can't do a fraction of what the previous product could. An example would be how Adobe Photoshop would force, especially big corporations, to always get the new products and now it has a subscription model that forces to pay monthly and features what we call "dark interface" that intentionally obscures how to cancel it and hide features and conditions that the user should know -- and, of course, many people still pirate the adobe softwares and if you mention it in the open you are an horrible person and should be burned at a stake.

There is also something else that Disney created, which is an artificial scarcity. Most people nowadays don't know or don't remember, but there was a time when Disney's featured movies had the "Disney Vault". They would be released in VHS for a short period of time, making the price skyrocket with the limited run, and then back to the vault to never be seen again for a decade or so.

It is easier for the people with the money say "piracy will have your computer filled with viruses". The uncomfortable truth is : the people who had made most of the things pirated have already been paid by their work by the time it was released, and much of the profit is going to people in suits that don't care for the product itself, or its fans. Only the money matters. If you pirate it or not, the creative minds who put their effort and sweat behind it aren't going to get paid one cent.

These people in suits don't want people to remember that Nintendo has a "legal slave", someone who will have to pay a huge chunk of his earnings until the day he dies and they love when people get upset when their "comfort games" like Mario or Pokemon are bashed and the fans want to go to war.

My stance? Yeah, pirate to your hearts' content. The only thing I disagree is pirating indie games. This is the only line I have. But big corporations? They don't care about me as a consumer and as a person. In fact, they just want my money, so there's no love lost here. There are good people working for them, but they will never get the money and the recognition they deserve.
 
Couldn't have said it better myself.
I could have..... I just chose not to..
smug010.gif


For my part, I've always been more interested in how to "democratize" retro gaming. I'm far more interested in cheaper retro handhelds for instance than the ultra-expensive models and seeing what you can get out of a 40 dollar device off AliExpress vs something like the Retroid Pocket series
Oh, I fully agree. I love pushing little POS handhelds to their upper limits. It's always a fun time with something like my Trimui Smart Pro, especially when a new OS comes out to squeeze just that drop or two of better Dreamcast performance out of it.

I hope I'm not being biased, and I apologize if I am, but I think this shame has a lot to do with first-world countries,
Personally, I don't think it is. USA here myself, and I don't have the nickname "Capt" around here because I sail the seven digital seas looking for game deals....

I think it's more like, as has been pointed out, that people just want to feel superior to others for having a library of games and never actually playing them. It's similar to owning a full collection of the works of H.P. Lovecraft but never having read a single paragraph of any of them... you brag just because you have them.

..also apologies if I'm rambling or not being quite as coherent as usual. I've had almost two and a half days with no sleep. Insomnia is a bitch
 
With the whole "preservation" and "game backups" words being tossed around so much instead of just calling it "pirating" or "downloading" AS IS, it might be for the best to simply keep it like this, because the toxic bastards that keep flaming each other in emulation/collector communities over this should be left doing that and anyone else just.. idk, hoarding more obscure old rpgs off the internet and all that.
 

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