Gamecube Melee opinions?

[destinyduelist]

I'm just saying that Super Smash Bros as a franchise has always been to welcome anyone and if the next entry is 100% competitive-focused I can genuinely tell that it would kill the spirit of the franchise.

100% agree with you on this, games should always be built with fun in mind first and accessibility, Overwatch released with wanting to be an e-sport in mind and we all know where that went today.

This is why some games got "killed" by focusing too much on competitive like TF2 after that one update adding matchmaking (when this is one of the most unbalanced and randomised Online FPS ever).

Don't even get me started... This image perfectly coveys how I feel about TF2 right now

 

[Ikagura]

100% agree with you on this, games should always be built with fun in mind first and accessibility, Overwatch released with wanting to be an e-sport in mind and we all know where that went today.

Activision Blizzard are weird, they first planned a PvE focused mode disguised as a sequel then killed the original while never giving us that single player mode.

I absolutely despise current Blizzard (even if I'm not that big of a fan outside of Warcraft III and Diablo II).

In the best of the worlds we would've gotten the PvE mode as a separate thing like Mann vs Machine in TF2 so the original mode fans would be fine.

Don't even get me started... This image perfectly coveys how I feel about TF2 right now

Great picture.

Honestly if Valve wanted a more competitive TF2 they should've either created a "2.5" game like CS:GO compared to Source with 0 hats/accessories and only the stock weapons so it will be balanced (because some weapons are legit overpowered to the point it made the stock pretty obsolete).

But I digress: back to Smash to be honest I do like the games but the fanbase is something I avoid thanks to the dramas involving some members (with younger competitors) and how it got a bad reputation (especially regarding personal hygiene).

I know that you shouldn't judge an entire fanbase based on a few bad apples but in the meantime it's also what spoils the whole basket and personally I would totally understand parents not wanting their child to attend a competition.

 

[Yousef]

Better than ranged.

 

[fishboneKiller]

after reading a lot of the responses on this post, it got me thinking... i mean, does smash have to just be a competitive game or just be a casual game? it's like when some people say that using glitches in speedruns is cheating, like yeah it wasn't the original intent of the creators, but that's what some people find fun. likewise, you can still play the game in a more laid back, casual manner and still enjoy yourself that way too. saying smash is strictly a party game or strictly a competitive fighting game feels kind of lame, at least to me

 

[VampireLord1024VampireLord1024's icon]

I liked playing the game when I was a kid since I had played Super Smash Bros. on the Nintendo 64 before it first.

 

[Tengu Plant]

after reading a lot of the responses on this post, it got me thinking... i mean, does smash have to just be a competitive game or just be a casual game? it's like when some people say that using glitches in speedruns is cheating, like yeah it wasn't the original intent of the creators, but that's what some people find fun. likewise, you can still play the game in a more laid back, casual manner and still enjoy yourself that way too. saying smash is strictly a party game or strictly a competitive fighting game feels kind of lame, at least to me

My thoughts exactly. A good example here is trading card games. Sure you can go to a tournament and compete for prizes but you can also play fan-made formats, set up a draft pool, or use weird gimmick decks with your friends. Does this make a given card game competitive or casual?
Well, it's both. These are honestly just terms that players came up with that don't really mean much when you start to think about it. If my friend group and I try to compete with each other in Smash but never go to tournaments is this competitive? Is it casual? Who's to say?

 

[Ikagura]

after reading a lot of the responses on this post, it got me thinking... i mean, does smash have to just be a competitive game or just be a casual game? it's like when some people say that using glitches in speedruns is cheating, like yeah it wasn't the original intent of the creators, but that's what some people find fun. likewise, you can still play the game in a more laid back, casual manner and still enjoy yourself that way too. saying smash is strictly a party game or strictly a competitive fighting game feels kind of lame, at least to me

Yes and no.

Sure you can always make something much more serious regardless of its intent and I understand a bunch of friends being serious about strats in Street Fighter II to the point even the devs made a new version just to improve over it (I think Rainbow Edition, an unofficial romhack inspired Capcom devs into making SF II faster with special moves).

But in the meantime the Internet has a negative connotation about "adults taking things made for kids too seriously" like calling Yu-Gi-Oh a kid card game, Smash a "fighting game for those who sucks at actual fighting game" or even Pokémon "a RPG for kids".

Maybe socially speaking if someone is only 30-something years old in a night club filled with 20-25 I could understand why that person would avoid being there.

PS: On the other hand I'd prefer if serious events were 18+.

 

[Comster]

Super Smash Bros. Melee was the first Super Smash Bros. game I have ever played. I liked a lot of the music. I liked Adventure mode. Cruel Melee on the highest difficulty was very tough. Once Super Smash Bros. Brawl for the Nintendo Wii came out, I stopped playing Super Smash Bros. Melee and played Super Smash Bros. Brawl instead.

 

[Nidstang]

Loved it when it came out. Still like it a lot. But it is overrated. I like Smash 4 and Smash Ultimate more. I understand why it's the "definitive tournament competitive experience", but Ultimate is just a better game.

 

[Nidoking's iconNidoking]

I've had a lot of fun with it in the past, but since I've never been anywhere close to a 'diehard' competitive player I've never really cared for the more technical side of things... so a lot of what that game gets the most praise for doesn't apply to me. I honestly enjoy Brawl a lot more, and Ultimate is quite a bit ahead of it as well. I do prefer Melee to Sm4sh and the original, though.

 

[Ikagura]

I've had a lot of fun with it in the past, but since I've never been anywhere close to a 'diehard' competitive player I've never really cared for the more technical side of things... so a lot of what that game gets the most praise for doesn't apply to me.

It begs me the question: should a game be praised for what it is all about or for the advanced techniques from the engine's quirk?

Melee would've been a forgotten game if it wasn't for Shuffling/L-cancelling? I don't think so personally.

I honestly enjoy Brawl a lot more, and Ultimate is quite a bit ahead of it as well. I do prefer Melee to Sm4sh and the original, though.

Smash 4 had the infortune of being in between Melee and Brawl, not enough solo content like Brawl but not as competitive as Melee so that people would rather either play Melee or Project M over Smash 4 (especially when Mii Fighters and custom moves are banned from competitive).

The 3DS version is fine to me as it's the only true handheld entry (the Switch is quite big imo).

Smash 64 is cool for historical purpose but Smash Remix is de facto the better choice.

 

[chufflord]

after reading a lot of the responses on this post, it got me thinking... i mean, does smash have to just be a competitive game or just be a casual game? it's like when some people say that using glitches in speedruns is cheating, like yeah it wasn't the original intent of the creators, but that's what some people find fun. likewise, you can still play the game in a more laid back, casual manner and still enjoy yourself that way too. saying smash is strictly a party game or strictly a competitive fighting game feels kind of lame, at least to me

My thoughts exactly. A good example here is trading card games. Sure you can go to a tournament and compete for prizes but you can also play fan-made formats, set up a draft pool, or use weird gimmick decks with your friends. Does this make a given card game competitive or casual?
Well, it's both. These are honestly just terms that players came up with that don't really mean much when you start to think about it. If my friend group and I try to compete with each other in Smash but never go to tournaments is this competitive? Is it casual? Who's to say?

Hit the nail on the head with these ya'll. The BEST thing about Smash is that the devs give you the tools to play how you want, and I feel like that's pretty overlooked.

You wanna turn items on and do a four player FFA with your drinking buddies while everything explodes on screen? Go for it.

You'd rather play a really good character against one other person on a flat stage, or a stage with limited platforms so you can focus on striking and evading? Yeah that's chill go for it.

It's not surprising how popular the competitive ruleset got, considering the flexibility of the game parameters and just how FAR the top players push what's capable in game. To them, the game is rewarding them with kills and wins because of all the hours they put in to understand all the little nuances, quirks, matchups, character and move data- but you can also have a good time if you DON'T do this and just play around with your friends. It manages to satisfy both casual and competitive players, in a way where one group doesn't infringe on the other. Even if you don't enjoy playing the game or watching it, you'd be hard pressed to say it isn't good design.

(An aside; compared to something like Dead by Daylight, which tries to play the middleground for both it's casual and competitive fanbases and absolutely fails in that process.)

But in the meantime the Internet has a negative connotation about "adults taking things made for kids too seriously" like calling Yu-Gi-Oh a kid card game, Smash a "fighting game for those who sucks at actual fighting game" or even Pokémon "a RPG for kids".

A lot of people also only play CoD because they see everything else as childish- it doesn't mean it's a good opinion, just that they're narrow minded.

 

[Ikagura]

A lot of people also only play CoD because they see everything else as childish- it doesn't mean it's a good opinion, just that they're narrow minded.

While you're right about it, teens wanting to avoid anything childish (despite that GTA and COD aren't that mature while a colourful family friendly game can have deeper themes) I think I can understand a 30-something years old man not wanting to be in a place with only teens to mid-20 adults because that would be socially awkward.

Or maybe it's just me being conditioned into thinking that...

 

[chufflord]

While you're right about it, teens wanting to avoid anything childish (despite that GTA and COD aren't that mature while a colourful family friendly game can have deeper themes) I think I can understand a 30-something years old man not wanting to be in a place with only teens to mid-20 adults because that would be socially awkward.

Or maybe it's just me being conditioned into thinking that...

Oh no for sure, it's definitely a weird vibe if your locals have a huge age gap. You can see that with a lot of fighters though, it's unfair to apply that sort of thing to only Smash groups.

 

[CaesariusMagnum]

Didn't have any real interest in competitive smash at all but aside from that Melee was my first Smash Bros. game. I played it pretty religiously as a kid until I got Brawl about a year later. Brawl is my favorite Smash Bros. game but Melee still holds a place in my heart.

 

[Don Patch]

All the Smash games are great party games.

IMO, if you have a Switch, there's really no reason to go back to Melee. Ultimate really is just that

 

[Tengu Plant]

I'm a little surprised to see so many Brawl fans here.
Sure, the Subspace Emissary is great and a lot of the Final Smashes are fun in that "unrefined first try" way but man tripping is just infuriating. Even if you're just screwing around with friends at 2AM it's still awful. Why not have a chance of your attack buttons not working either while we're at it?

 

[Ikagura]

All the Smash games are great party games.

IMO, if you have a Switch, there's really no reason to go back to Melee. Ultimate really is just that

Exactly, if someone isn't interested in competitive then there's no real need.

I'm a little surprised to see so many Brawl fans here.
Sure, the Subspace Emissary is great and a lot of the Final Smashes are fun in that "unrefined first try" way but man tripping is just infuriating. Even if you're just screwing around with friends at 2AM it's still awful. Why not have a chance of your attack buttons not working either while we're at it?

i would've agreed several years ago but you don't really suffer from tripping unless you dash dance (which is useless outside of Melee). Last time I replayed I didn't really encounter it that often, mostly with CF

I still find it curious that things like Mr.G&W's Judge and Luigi's misfire are still fine despite being RNG as well.

Post automatically merged: Feb 16, 2025

Oh wait, I didn't post the message? I'm glad there's a post saving feature included.

I think we should create a Smash Bros thread because I really want to post things about Smash but not Melee.

PS: Should I play Project + over M? What's the major differences?

I really want to replay SSE

 

[Don Patch]

PS: Should I play Project + over M? What's the major differences?

Didn't M cease development and was picked up sometime later and rebranded Project +?
So I think + is the way to go. All the goodies of M but more-better.

edit: a link to their site for good measure

 

[Ikagura]

While we're on Melee I still love the beta of the game

 

[Tengu Plant]

i would've agreed several years ago but you don't really suffer from tripping unless you dash dance (which is useless outside of Melee). Last time I replayed I didn't really encounter it that often, mostly with CF

I still find it curious that things like Mr.G&W's Judge and Luigi's misfire are still fine despite being RNG as well.

That wasn't my experience honestly. Even if it's only occasional it's still infuriating. It's a complete anti-feature. There's no good reason for it to be in the game at all (which is why they got rid of it).
Anyway, those things you mentioned are tolerated because they're special properties on special moves. Even if they do go off it's still doing the move. Tripping on the other hand is just a random chance for a very basic action not to work. I'm not even a huge anti-RNG guy and that's still just horrible to me.

 

[chufflord]

That wasn't my experience honestly. Even if it's only occasional it's still infuriating. It's a complete anti-feature. There's no good reason for it to be in the game at all (which is why they got rid of it).
Anyway, those things you mentioned are tolerated because they're special properties on special moves. Even if they do go off it's still doing the move. Tripping on the other hand is just a random chance for a very basic action not to work. I'm not even a huge anti-RNG guy and that's still just horrible to me.

This, it's kinda just there to fuck you over. It was implemented as a weird sort of "don't play our game competitively" thing before they started to really embrace the flexibility of the system they had created.

Child me did the boss rush mode in that game a LOT, it's definitely what I enjoyed the most.

 

[Leo-Dash]

Man... Melee was my childhood favorite game
I never had anyone to play with so it's 100% Crossover Beat-em-up Single Game for my experience, and thats how i still want the smash bros games.
Brawl's Subspace Emissary was the greatest evolution for this and then everything went downfall!

I must sinked around 600+ hours on it as kid, trying to 100% complete the game, unlocking everyone, playing every character throught the modes
Getting all the Trophies (which NEVER HAPPENED because it requires specific GC games saves in the memory card)

I will never forgive what the competitive scene has done to Melee's image online

This must been the beginning of why I hate PVP Content so much

 

[moonbits]

I grew up with it, it's good but definitely massively overrated.

 

[Ikagura]

I've come to prefer romhacks/mods of the game like 20XX, Silly Melee or even the Akaiena Build for the added characters and balancing.

I don't fully understand why tournaments don't use 20XX or even PM/P+.