Gamecube If you ask me, the Gamecube deserved the L... But at least it tried. A little ramble about the 6th gen console war.

[fake-kun]

Saying "piss poor library" doesn't sound subjective to me.

Well, it is, and you better accept it.

The SNES was, for its epoch, quite a powerful console, more than the Genesis in many aspects (yes, they had the "Blast Processing" but it was more of a quirk about the CPU cycle speed).


I'm still wondering why the power argument works for the current gens but not the retro consoles. I'd still say that the GameCube version of RE4 has been deemed better than the PS2 one by several people.

Stop bringing other people's opinions into this argument. I've already told you that they're completely irrelevant to me.

 

[WokiBakoki]

As for the minidiscs honestly they had some charm and could fit better in book case, I still think the DVD cases for the Xbox and PS2 were too big and used too much plastic.

This is frankly the most desperate reach of an argument I think I've ever seen. Nah, the GC's disc weren't too small and held too little data, the other standardised discs used for Xbox, PS2, CD and DVD's were all too big. Used too much plastic? It's PAPER THIN! What on Earth are you talking about? Not to mention Gamecube game boxes were the same size as everyone elses so on a bookcase, they're all the same.

Yeah DVD's aren't games. But in the early 2000s physical media wasn't just the dominant option, it was the only option for owning media. Near enough, as piracy and what not was still in its infancy on a young internet. Discs and going all-digital was the up and coming norm, and DVD players were fuck-off expensive, but everyone needed one. So if you got a PS2, you got movies, CD's AND the best video games all in one reasonably priced machine! Nowadays it's easy to brush the extras off but back then that was an absurd steal. Guarenteed victory, big dick swinging level shit. The PS2 sold tens of millions more than everyone else, and is still the highest selling system of all time because of that. It was a big enough W to be undeniable.

In the face of that, along with Xbox pioneering online play outside of the PC market. And the GC looks pretty boring. A handful of good games could only get you so far in an era of high quality boundry pushing hardware. Besides, there big saviour games were stunted anyway. Mario Sunshine was 9 months late to the party, and Wind Waker was slammed for its cartoon art style. Which is pretty lame considering it looks brilliant, but caused a surprisingly big backlash from mainly western fans at the time. Enough to be unignorable, you can thank those haters for Twilight Princess. All and all, a mid console at the consoles markets fiercest era. No amount of games first purism is gonna outshine those PS2 numbers, especially when all your faith is in games that aren't even S tier by there own franchise standards.

 

[χKai]

I still don't think the Gamecube suffered any sort of "L", and I can personally think of over 50 great titles for the console that support my belief.

 

[Ikagura]

Well, it is, and you better accept it.

No, your opinion doesn't systematically constitutes reality, forcing others to agree is absolutely not constructive when we can debate about that (which you usually want to avoid each time).

Maybe you should differentiate subjectivity and objectivity, this would be healthier for the forum and general conversations between adults.

Stop bringing other people's opinions into this argument. I've already told you that they're completely irrelevant to me.

And yet having consensus is the basis of objectivity, having several crossing observations is better than the claim of a single person.

This is frankly the most desperate reach of an argument I think I've ever seen. Nah, the GC's disc weren't too small and held too little data, the other standardised discs used for Xbox, PS2, CD and DVD's were all too big. Used too much plastic? It's PAPER THIN! What on Earth are you talking about? Not to mention Gamecube game boxes were the same size as everyone else's so on a bookcase, they're all the same.

I'd still argue that the cartridge size on the N64 wasn't an issue for making quality games so why is this different for it?

Yeah DVD's aren't games. But in the early 2000s physical media wasn't just the dominant option, it was the only option for owning media. Near enough, as piracy and what not was still in its infancy on a young internet. Discs and going all-digital was the up and coming norm, and DVD players were fuck-off expensive, but everyone needed one. So if you got a PS2, you got movies, CD's AND the best video games all in one reasonably priced machine! Nowadays it's easy to brush the extras off but back then that was an absurd steal. Guarenteed victory, big dick swinging level shit. The PS2 sold tens of millions more than everyone else, and is still the highest selling system of all time because of that. It was a big enough W to be undeniable.

I see that it also appealed to people that weren't really into gaming. But then again is popularity a sign of systematic quality? Are the games on it still the best in their respective series all the same?

In the face of that, along with Xbox pioneering online play outside of the PC market. And the GC looks pretty boring. A handful of good games could only get you so far in an era of high quality boundry pushing hardware. Besides, there big saviour games were stunted anyway. Mario Sunshine was 9 months late to the party, and Wind Waker was slammed for its cartoon art style. Which is pretty lame considering it looks brilliant, but caused a surprisingly big backlash from mainly western fans at the time. Enough to be unignorable, you can thank those haters for Twilight Princess. All and all, a mid console at the consoles markets fiercest era. No amount of games first purism is gonna outshine those PS2 numbers, especially when all your faith is in games that aren't even S tier by there own franchise standards.

Sorry but the Dreamcast did online play outside of PC several years before the Xbox.

Wasn't TP quite impressive for the GC visually? Anyway, I do agree that western Zelda fans always wanted gritty Zelda for some reasons.

 

[fake-kun]

No, your opinion doesn't systematically constitutes reality, forcing others to agree is absolutely not constructive when we can debate about that (which you usually want to avoid each time).

Maybe you should differentiate subjectivity and objectivity, this would be healthier for the forum and general conversations between adults.

I don't know how to explain it to you that I don't consider my subjective opinions as facts, and you're the one who keeps pestering other people to explain and justify them like they're in an interrogation.

And yet having consensus is the basis of objectivity, having several crossing observations is better than the claim of a single person.

Once upon a time, there was a consensus that people's intellect and personality could be determined by the shape of their heads. That didn't mean it was actually true.

 

[UnDubious]

A consensus can be manufactured pretty easily. Just because most people believe something doesn't make it true.

Anyway, not sure what that whole tangent about the PC Engine was. It wasn't technically superior to the Super Nintendo at all, in fact it came out 3 years earlier so that would've been insane. It was halfway between the 8 and 16-bit eras, so it was impressive when it came out since it up against the aging NES. The Genesis ended up more powerful, as did the SNES. Either way the PC Engine has some cool games too, even if it's not as good of a generalist console (many genres are poorly represented). The Neo Geo was conceived as a cheaper arcade board because you could change the games for a lower price, they only sold it to home consumers because there was demand. Selling it as a console was a bonus spin-off for them. It wasn't a flop at all, it elevated SNK's profile in the arcade market significantly, and was never intended to compete with the SNES or Genesis.

 

[WokiBakoki]

Sorry but the Dreamcast did online play outside of PC several years before the Xbox.

Yeah and it was fuckin' shit so no one bought a Dreamcast for the internet features except my Dad... And he's no leading example I can tell ya that for free.

Halo meanwhile was awesome and the Xbox lineup is way better than the Dreamcast's. So everyone played that, DC was first, Xbox was the one everyone actually experienced.

I'd still argue that the cartridge size on the N64 wasn't an issue for making quality games so why is this different for it?

We aren't talking about the N64 though are we. The disc limitations of the Gamecube meant less third party support. A game as robust as say, Gran Turismo 4, Final Fantasy X or San Andreas wouldn't fit on a GC disc. They have a distinct disadvantage of less wiggle room for content. And don't give me "they're bigger but are they better games" because yes, they are.

Wasn't TP quite impressive for the GC visually? Anyway, I do agree that western Zelda fans always wanted gritty Zelda for some reasons.

They're the best ones. Even Ocarina is surprisingly somber while the less mysterious forboding entries like Skyward Sword and Wind Waker are less captivating. Even BoTW and ToTK are bashed for having bad storylines.

Take your cube by its little handle and go home man. Those other systems were just better in every possible sense. Games that looked better, lasted longer, and cemented most of the franchises that are still big today. The numbers don't lie, that little box was a dissapointment. Maybe not to you, but to everyone else it was.

 

[iamthemilkman]

It definitely deserved the 3rd spot. As much as I love Gamecube, its third-party support was dire compared to PS2 and Xbox.

That said, it still had a hell of a library, it just didn't seem that way at the time because important games seemed to be few and far between. We're used to that nowadays since big first-party releases take longer to make, but we weren't used to it back then. I'm still surprised that it didn't do better, though, given that you could get them for $99.99 a mere two years after release. You could get a brand new Gamecube console for $25 more than some N64 games cost.

 

[WokiBakoki]

It definitely deserved the 3rd spot. As much as I love Gamecube, its third-party support was dire compared to PS2 and Xbox.

That said, it still had a hell of a library, it just didn't seem that way at the time because important games seemed to be few and far between. We're used to that nowadays since big first-party releases take longer to make, but we weren't used to it back then. I'm still surprised that it didn't do better, though, given that you could get them for $99.99 a mere two years after release. You could get a brand new Gamecube console for $25 more than some N64 games cost.

Well, for everyone that cashes in on a deal THAT good. There's more people who see desperation to push a product that got pantsed by two much cooler bullies. When it gets to that point, if I was 22 at the time instead of 2 I'd of said "Damn, they must be really reaching to sell those purple bricks. Goes to show how sick the other systems are."

 

[Your_Homie_Gale]

I'm surprised nobody brought up the controller. This to me was and is the sole reason the gamecube had little to no 3rd party ports. Can you play other fighting games on the gamecube besides Melee and Soul Calibur 2 with that controller? The answer is no. What about other action packed games? To me playing MGS Twin Snakes felt awkward using the gamecube controller. How about RPGs? Maybe, and there are some RPGs that fit well with the controller but it feels awkward. The gamecube controller is perfectly designed for Nintendo exclusives only, and I think it translates horribly to other games. Just try playing CVS2 EO using that controller, or try playing other non-gamecube games with a gamecube controller. You'll want to switch to an Xbox or Playstation controller instead. For laughs I tried playing Kingdom Hearts II with a gamecube controller and I couldn't last more than 20 minutes. The D-pad and C-stick are too small, the button layout feels random, and having only 2 triggers plus a Z button feels limiting. It doesn't even have a select button when the SNES had one and the Xbox and PS2 controller did. The best thing I can say about it is the main joystick and it is one of the most comfortable controllers to hold even 20 years later. I think it had the best joystick of its generation.

 

[WokiBakoki]

I'm surprised nobody brought up the controller.

You know what, you're right. I forgot about that. My older brother is a hardcore Gamecube fanboy, he always said it was just fine but he never got to play games that use 4 face buttons good like Tekken or games that used the sticks good like an FPS game. I like the triggers but yeah, no select and only one bumper? Get outta here with that. The layout is purpose built for Wind Waker it seems. Well when you bet on yourself and deliver mid. Ya run outta steam real fast.

 

[Bonkers225]

People have the right to have opinions. And I'll just leave it at that.

 

[SoraSquood]

The PS2 simply came out swingin' while Nintendo was sticking to their guns so to speak. Gotta give 'em props though, they were pretty experimental with titles then.

 

[Antilocal123]

C’mon guys continue the argument.

 

[JuwairenX]

I bought a Gamecube at launch day, and could only ever find a handful of games anywhere for it. No shops at the time had a decent selection, if they even supported the hardware at all. It was kind of like the Saturn and Dreamcast all over again. Great, if you live in a major city where the only place that sold gaming stuff wasn't k-mart. I eventually migrated to the ps2 and only used nintendos handhelds instead, because at least you could find games for the gba and ds. It was hell for the hardcore gamer before internet retail, especially if you played on an underdog system...

 

[fake-kun]

C’mon guys continue the argument.
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[Sinmenon]

Hi, I was around as a gamer back in the time when the GC was released.

Back then, Nintendo had lost a lot of momentum when they released the N64. Sure, it was a very powerful console if compared to the PSx, but the proprietary cartridge was expensive and was a barrier to entry for many smaller companies, while the CD-based games were cheaper and also had much bigger storage capacity and were better for storing music. They also burned a few bridges with some of the bigger companies, like Capcom and Square, at the time.
Not to mention that during the NES and SNES era, many companies were strong-armed to make their games console-exclusive, which also diminished their profits by releasing on only one console.

So, when the GC rolled around, they were rebuilding their relationships with the third parties, but they still did the whole proprietary storage that gave Nintendo a bigger cut, if compared to both PS2 and the original XBox that used regular media. The storage was also smaller than the others, which also contributed a little.
Nintendo also made a point of firmly staying in the kid-friendly zone (even with outliers, like Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil 4 and Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes), while the other two were focusing on teen audiences, who had slightly more freedom in getting their own games, and young adults.
And it was also when the third parties that Nintendo had burned the bridges started to try to get back to a good footing, like how Square released FF Crystal Chronicles. They still had the advantage that the XBox executives f'd up big time when trying to get the support of the Japanese companies, so they were more into making multiplatform games on the GC than with the Americans who told them to their face that the Japanese way of doing business was no good and they were going to show them how it is done (yes, it was a real thing).

And there is also the hardware. The controller wasn't exactly very ergonomic, so it could be uncomfortable for some. All the GC accessories had to be Nintendo-approved or first parties, so they were expensive, besides other ridiculous ones that were far more expensive than they should be.

This is why the third-party support for the GC was so underwhelming in its majority. Sure, there are very good games, but not as many games as the others.
Just look at the Wii: it was when Nintendo finally used the same media as everyone else. Sure, the console got tons of shovelware, but it also allowed smaller companies to release many experimental games like how it was with the PS2 and XBox. I see the Wii as an extension of that era rather than a direct competition to the PS3 era.

Sorry I rambled, I tried to be as impartial as possible here.

 

[Bakuma1997]

As a GCN owner, i mostly agree, but i'll be the Devil's Advocate

For all its flaws, the mini discs were an advantage in a simple technical point: Less loading

I had both the PS2 and the GCN (No XBOX Hueg though) and by the end of the day the GCN was posthumously born (A term for when somethign gets popular after years of obscurity) but still had flaws, less processing power compared to PS2 means Nintendoers could never experience Metal Gear Solid 3 or God of War, but it was still fun, specially its Sega ports or sequels