Dreamcast I feel like the OG Xbox is reincarnation of the Dreamcast.

[Mr.Yes]

I am not sure where to post this exactly but here we go.
Just as the title says, when SEGA was out of the console business, they made some Nintendo exclusive games but most notably for the OG Xbox.
I mean we've got SEGA GT (2002), Shenmue II (only in North America), Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller (Timed exclusive), JSRF, Panzer Dragoon Orta, etc...
Does anyone relate a little?

(Photo Source: Here.)

 

[Miles Miles]

I wish OG Xbox emulation was actually good so I could actually play these.

 

[hazys]

It's not just your hunch, this was the intention in the beginning. After the Dreamcast failed, many SEGA projects were moved to the XBox because they struck a deal with Microsoft. That's why games like Shenmue II, JSRF, and GunValkyrie came out for the XBox. But when Halo took off, that became the XBox's identity and the Dreamcast lineup got left by the wayside.

 

[Vardalis]

Eh. I wouldn't say I feel it was reincarnation as such, since the console does have an overall different vibe even despite Sega's titles, online play focus and general innovations.

 

[Bluez00]

I wish OG Xbox emulation was actually good so I could actually play these.

Same here, I have one, but just to play DOA games, it sucks to see that DOA2 Ultimate and 3 are still stuck on the OG Xbox.

 

[Mr.Yes]

I wish OG Xbox emulation was actually good so I could actually play these.

It's decent but not ideal. If you want to try it out. I suggest Xemu, someone named "Urcasualgamer" will help you set it up. His channel can be found on Youtube.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 9:48 PM

Eh. I wouldn't say I feel it was reincarnation as such, since the console does have an overall different vibe even despite Sega's titles, online play focus and general innovations.

Good point, since Mircosoft has pushed for online play more than Sega with the dreamcast. I guess my feeling that it's a reincarnation came from the fact that the exclusive games were on a stronger console not so long after Dreamcast's failure.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I've got an Xbox, but it's mostly just for the backwards compatible games. I don't think many of these are compatible though, unfortunately. It's cool that the Xbox has that feature, but the available library could always be bigger.

 

[Leguminoso]

I remember watching a video talking about this, that the XBOX actually took stuff from Sega via partnership.

Modern Vintage Gamer even made a video talking about it. Saying that it might as well be called the successor/spiritual child of it.

 

[Maximecool]

Absolutely, I totally get what you mean! The OG Xbox really became a second home for SEGA fans after they left the console business , microsoft definitely benefited from picking up those SEGA titles, and for players.

But going back to the OG Xbox: it was a fantastic console, priced higher than its competitors because it was the most powerful on the market (above the PS2, GameCube, and Dreamcast).

The reason? It used PC-like hardware: a Pentium 3 CPU and an NVIDIA GeForce 3 GPU, based on the same technology as high-end PCs at the time. For context, the GeForce 3 was the top-of-the-line gaming GPU back then the equivalent, in its era, of what an RTX is today: the best hardware for gaming.

And for developers, making games for the OG Xbox was easy because it shared a PC-like architecture.

 

[Leguminoso]

Absolutely, I totally get what you mean! The OG Xbox really became a second home for SEGA fans after they left the console business , microsoft definitely benefited from picking up those SEGA titles, and for players.

But going back to the OG Xbox: it was a fantastic console, priced higher than its competitors because it was the most powerful on the market (above the PS2, GameCube, and Dreamcast).

The reason? It used PC-like hardware: a Pentium 3 CPU and an NVIDIA GeForce 3 GPU, based on the same technology as high-end PCs at the time. For context, the GeForce 3 was the top-of-the-line gaming GPU back then — the equivalent, in its era, of what an RTX is today: the best hardware for gaming.

And for developers, making games for the OG Xbox was easy because it shared a PC-like architecture.

I would say Nintendo did too. Because the Gamecube got Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2; the Xbox didn't get SA 1 or 2 until the Xbox 360.

 

[qw90700]

Does anyone relate a little?

View attachment 109789

(Photo Source: Here.)

Undeniably.

 

[Maximecool]

I would say Nintendo did too. Because the Gamecube got Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2; the Xbox didn't get SA 1 or 2 until the Xbox 360.

While it's true that the GameCube received Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2, the original Xbox actually had a broader selection of Sega games, including several titles that were exclusive to Xbox or unavailable on the GameCube.

Sega Games on Xbox OG (Original Xbox):

1. Jet Set Radio Future
2. Shenmue II
3. Panzer Dragoon Orta
4. GunValkyrie
5. Otogi: Myth of Demons
6. Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors
7. Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller
8. ToeJam & Earl III: Mission to Earth
9. Headhunter
10. Headhunter: Redemption
11. Sega GT 2002
12. Sega GT Online
13. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
14. Virtua Fighter 5
15. Sega Soccer Slam
16. Sega Superstars
17. Sega Rally Championship 2005
18. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
19. Shenmue II

Sega Games on GameCube:

1. Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut
2. Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
3. Sonic Heroes
4. Sonic Mega Collection
5. Sonic Gems Collection
6. Sonic Riders
7. Shadow the Hedgehog
8. Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
9. Super Monkey Ball
10. Super Monkey Ball 2
11. Super Monkey Ball Adventure
12. Virtua Striker 2002
13. Worms 3D

Even without the Sonic Adventure titles, the original Xbox offered a richer selection of Sega games

Edit: this list isn’t complete, don’t take it as definitive.

 

[Leguminoso]

Yeah, The Gamecube had mostly Sonic games; Xbox had a wide variety. You forgot several Sonic games were on the Xbox too, Sonic Heroes from then on.

 

[Dany28]

Yes maybe it is.

 

[Maximecool]

Yeah, The Gamecube had mostly Sonic games; Xbox had a wide variety. You forgot several Sonic games were on the Xbox too, Sonic Heroes from then on.

Oops, you're right, I forgot Sonic Heroes and probably a lot of others, like OutRun which I didn’t mention. I should have taken more time to double-check everything. My bad!

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

Why yes. Yes it is. On top of SEGA’s position with Microsoft being strong, so much so that their then president took a flight to Microsoft’s offices in a bid to beg for Microsoft to buy them outright so they wouldn’t go bankrupt, many of the titles we got were initially planned for Dreamcast but only really got development going when the XBox came about.

I’ve talked about this to other people, but the generalization that it usually comes down to is this: if you only cared about Sonic, you got a GameCube. If you actually cared about SEGA, you got an XBox. And later a PS2, when SEGA realized how big that console was and that they had bet on the wrong initial horse.


Plus, the XBox was a continuation of SEGA’s online multiplayer initiative, which was a defining element of the Dreamcast. The XBox even took some design cues from the Dreamcast, including the general controller layout with memory cards in the controller’s top(for better and for worse).

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:29 PM

Eh. I wouldn't say I feel it was reincarnation as such, since the console does have an overall different vibe even despite Sega's titles, online play focus and general innovations.

Its overall vibe ended up being very different, yeah. The Dreamcast 2 point is mainly from the perspective of SEGA fans who needed a place to go. But, the XBox was more than that, and it casted a much larger net, which sadly led to SEGA fans getting left far behind as SEGA’s development teams diluted and moved apart around the 360’s launch.

 

[Turbo Kid]

I get why people say that, because of certain games and the Xbox doing some things that the DC did first. However, the Dreamcast was way more awesome than the Xbox in my opinion. I don't miss the old Xbox, but I miss the Dreamcast. I'd give anything for a Dreamcast 2

 

[TamagotchiTamaHero24's icon TamagotchiTamaHero24 TamagotchiTamaHero24]

While it's true that the GameCube received Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2, the original Xbox actually had a broader selection of Sega games, including several titles that were exclusive to Xbox or unavailable on the GameCube.

Sega Games on Xbox OG (Original Xbox):

1. Jet Set Radio Future
2. Shenmue II
3. Panzer Dragoon Orta
4. GunValkyrie
5. Otogi: Myth of Demons
6. Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors
7. Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller
8. ToeJam & Earl III: Mission to Earth
9. Headhunter
10. Headhunter: Redemption
11. Sega GT 2002
12. Sega GT Online
13. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
14. Virtua Fighter 5
15. Sega Soccer Slam
16. Sega Superstars
17. Sega Rally Championship 2005
18. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
19. Shenmue II

In total, the Xbox OG had 19 Sega games.

Sega Games on GameCube:

1. Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut
2. Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
3. Sonic Heroes
4. Sonic Mega Collection
5. Sonic Gems Collection
6. Sonic Riders
7. Shadow the Hedgehog
8. Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
9. Super Monkey Ball
10. Super Monkey Ball 2
11. Super Monkey Ball Adventure
12. Virtua Striker 2002
13. Worms 3D

In total, the GameCube had 13 Sega games.

Conclusion:
Even without the Sonic Adventure titles, the original Xbox offered a richer selection of Sega games, with 19 titles compared to the GameCube's 13. Therefore, in terms of Sega game availability, the Xbox OG had a more extensive library.

It’s frustrating to say, if you count the 2500 line, PS2 trounces all other systems in terms of sheer SEGA numbers. But, those were just re-releases or remakes. The present of SEGA titles were primarily on the XBox in those years.

 

[qw90700]

I remember watching a video talking about this, that the XBOX actually took stuff from Sega via partnership.

Modern Vintage Gamer even made a video talking about it. Saying that it might as well be called the successor/spiritual child of it.

It may be the least known fact that Sega invested on far future way back before that wasn't really good idea to be "so ahead of time" when world wasn't ready for it. I mean to say Sega invested on modern technology and saw the future in PC market. That's why Sega Dreamcast supports Windows CE that doesn't mean anything to customers but only means something for developers to develop a Dreamcast game and its PC port and PC game to Dreamcast ports in a familiar computer environment to ease the development, and Dreamcast itself as a hardware eases this in another ways like VGA support that also benefited customers too.

And also Sega also invested on quadrilateral-based rendering for PC market to make Saturn games that using quadrilateral-based rendering run ok on PC, which is why Nvidia's NV1 called Diamond Edge 3D released in 1995. You may now think "wow dude was it like first Nvidia GPU?" and I would say "it's not even a GPU", it's more like a piece of system that has whatever is necessary to play Saturn to PC ports on PC so it included a GPU, sound card and ports for Saturn gamepad and joystick port. However quadrilateral-based rendering is too much work because it add massive amount of geometrical BS to make such graphics exist therefore still to this day the standard way of rendering is based on triangles instead. So quadrilateral-based rendering had its benefit on "smoother graphics" that doesn't need anti-alising methods because graphics looked like what people may know from "vector visuals" but it made development of video games so hard which is why industry didn't see it as a graphical evolution, it was "unnecessary alien tech" so they downgraded the technology lol.

However PS1 won the round despite all these Microsoft and Sega partnership and even when they combined their powers. Why?:

- It was way harder to develop games for PS1. Dreamcast made it easier.

- Dreamcast disc could store up to 1 GB data while PS1 could up to 700 MB.

- Dreamcast was cheaper than PS1.

- Dreamcast was stronger than PS1.

Then why Dreamcast couldn't beat PS1 despite it was kinda like how Sega Genesis beat NES? The answer is Dreamcast's library couldn't beat PS1's library at all. Dreamcast released too late, by the time it was released it got old so combining this and lack of decent library and PS2 was on its way Sega was fucked. Relatively despite a decent tech Sega failed again, again and again but the way they were was still useful for Microsoft to learn from them and use them for XBOX!!!!

What Sega had to do?: These stupid guys had to wait for PS2 to learn what kind of better console they should have release to beat Sony, Sega had to give up on "being ahead of the time" way before world could be ready for it. They learned their mistake from Saturn but their ass was too high above the cloud. They passed beyond space-era, they were lost in "dream-era" lol. But what PS1 did? They were realistic and they stayed within the realm of what is possible at the time which they played on decent library which is the most important aspect of a console. Genesis wasn't liked for it "more bits" or some shit, people liked it for its library which is not Sega didn't get for real and it was the reason why they failed, instead they were trying to sell a console with "bits" and "blast processing" BS lol.

 

[ThunderBoy]

In my opinion, these were SEGA's two major projects immediately after the demise of Dreamcast.

both on PS2

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

After the Dreamcast sank, Sega struck deals with Microsoft and pivoted game projects over to the XBox. In a sense, the XBox was (at least early on) the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

 

[qw90700]

After the Dreamcast sank, Sega struck deals with Microsoft and pivoted game projects over to the XBox. In a sense, the XBox was (at least early on) the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

And Sega was so desperate we started to see Sega games on Nintendo consoles too!!! It's been years but I could never get used to it. I still mentally stayed in Sega - Nintendo console war lol. It's not over yet!!! Before I die I would like to see a Sega console killing Nintendo for good. That day I can peacefully die lolol.

 

[Mr.Yes]

I've got an Xbox, but it's mostly just for the backwards compatible games. I don't think many of these are compatible though, unfortunately. It's cool that the Xbox has that feature, but the available library could always be bigger.

I absolutely love backwards compatibility. That's why I have the OG PS3 in my top favorite consoles.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:19 PM

I remember watching a video talking about this, that the XBOX actually took stuff from Sega via partnership.

Modern Vintage Gamer even made a video talking about it. Saying that it might as well be called the successor/spiritual child of it.

Thanks for the video. I'll make sure to watch it.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:22 PM

Absolutely, I totally get what you mean! The OG Xbox really became a second home for SEGA fans after they left the console business , microsoft definitely benefited from picking up those SEGA titles, and for players.

But going back to the OG Xbox: it was a fantastic console, priced higher than its competitors because it was the most powerful on the market (above the PS2, GameCube, and Dreamcast).

The reason? It used PC-like hardware: a Pentium 3 CPU and an NVIDIA GeForce 3 GPU, based on the same technology as high-end PCs at the time. For context, the GeForce 3 was the top-of-the-line gaming GPU back then the equivalent, in its era, of what an RTX is today: the best hardware for gaming.

And for developers, making games for the OG Xbox was easy because it shared a PC-like architecture.

I agree, besides SEGA's exclusives being on the console, there were many superior ports/remasters for Xbox. Like Dead or Alive, Tony Hawk, and GTA (as far as I know any GTA title ran on solid 30fps).

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:27 PM

While it's true that the GameCube received Sonic Adventure DX and Sonic Adventure 2, the original Xbox actually had a broader selection of Sega games, including several titles that were exclusive to Xbox or unavailable on the GameCube.

Sega Games on Xbox OG (Original Xbox):

1. Jet Set Radio Future
2. Shenmue II
3. Panzer Dragoon Orta
4. GunValkyrie
5. Otogi: Myth of Demons
6. Otogi 2: Immortal Warriors
7. Crazy Taxi 3: High Roller
8. ToeJam & Earl III: Mission to Earth
9. Headhunter
10. Headhunter: Redemption
11. Sega GT 2002
12. Sega GT Online
13. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution
14. Virtua Fighter 5
15. Sega Soccer Slam
16. Sega Superstars
17. Sega Rally Championship 2005
18. Phantasy Star Online Episode I & II
19. Shenmue II

Sega Games on GameCube:

1. Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut
2. Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
3. Sonic Heroes
4. Sonic Mega Collection
5. Sonic Gems Collection
6. Sonic Riders
7. Shadow the Hedgehog
8. Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
9. Super Monkey Ball
10. Super Monkey Ball 2
11. Super Monkey Ball Adventure
12. Virtua Striker 2002
13. Worms 3D

Even without the Sonic Adventure titles, the original Xbox offered a richer selection of Sega games

Edit: this list isn’t complete, don’t take it as definitive.

I think if somebody wanted to play all of the older Sonic titles, they must get a Wii that has the GameCube compatibility. That way you'll have the entire 6th gen sonic games along with "Sonic Riders Zero Gravity" and "Sonic Unleashed" (PS2/WII).
P.S: Basically everything except for the Plus Expansion in the "Sonic Mega Collection".

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:31 PM

Why yes. Yes it is. On top of SEGA’s position with Microsoft being strong, so much so that their then president took a flight to Microsoft’s offices in a bid to beg for Microsoft to buy them outright so they wouldn’t go bankrupt, many of the titles we got were initially planned for Dreamcast but only really got development going when the XBox came about.

I’ve talked about this to other people, but the generalization that it usually comes down to is this: if you only cared about Sonic, you got a GameCube. If you actually cared about SEGA, you got an XBox. And later a PS2, when SEGA realized how big that console was and that they had bet on the wrong initial horse.


Plus, the XBox was a continuation of SEGA’s online multiplayer initiative, which was a defining element of the Dreamcast. The XBox even took some design cues from the Dreamcast, including the general controller layout with memory cards in the controller’s top(for better and for worse).

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:29 PM

Its overall vibe ended up being very different, yeah. The Dreamcast 2 point is mainly from the perspective of SEGA fans who needed a place to go. But, the XBox was more than that, and it casted a much larger net, which sadly led to SEGA fans getting left far behind as SEGA’s development teams diluted and moved apart around the 360’s launch.

Interesting point. Overall, it felt like a spooky Dreamcast ghost came and haunted the OG Xbox for a little before it went out. But still, it's cool to think about it your way.

 

[Bonkers225]

Yup. There are alot of people that believed, and still believes if Sega kept going with consoles, the X-Box was basically their next generation console.

 

[Mr.Yes]

In my opinion, these were SEGA's two major projects immediately after the demise of Dreamcast.

both on PS2

Do you think the Yakuza Franchise would have existed if they were still in the console business?

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:37 PM

After the Dreamcast sank, Sega struck deals with Microsoft and pivoted game projects over to the XBox. In a sense, the XBox was (at least early on) the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast.

Such an interesting history. Also, if the Dreamcast managed to last a couple of more months. The Xbox would have released when Sega was still in business of consoles. I think it would be cool seeing these four 6th gen machines competing like there's no tomorrow.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 11:47 PM

It may be the least known fact that Sega invested on far future way back before that wasn't really good idea to be "so ahead of time" when world wasn't ready for it. I mean to say Sega invested on modern technology and saw the future in PC market. That's why Sega Dreamcast supports Windows CE that doesn't mean anything to customers but only means something for developers to develop a Dreamcast game and its PC port and PC game to Dreamcast ports in a familiar computer environment to ease the development, and Dreamcast itself as a hardware eases this in another ways like VGA support that also benefited customers too.

And also Sega also invested on quadrilateral-based rendering for PC market to make Saturn games that using quadrilateral-based rendering run ok on PC, which is why Nvidia's NV1 called Diamond Edge 3D released in 1995. You may now think "wow dude was it like first Nvidia GPU?" and I would say "it's not even a GPU", it's more like a piece of system that has whatever is necessary to play Saturn to PC ports on PC so it included a GPU, sound card and ports for Saturn gamepad and joystick port. However quadrilateral-based rendering is too much work because it add massive amount of geometrical BS to make such graphics exist therefore still to this day the standard way of rendering is based on triangles instead. So quadrilateral-based rendering had its benefit on "smoother graphics" that doesn't need anti-alising methods because graphics looked like what people may know from "vector visuals" but it made development of video games so hard which is why industry didn't see it as a graphical evolution, it was "unnecessary alien tech" so they downgraded the technology lol.

However PS1 won the round despite all these Microsoft and Sega partnership and even when they combined their powers. Why?:

- It was way harder to develop games for PS1. Dreamcast made it easier.

- Dreamcast disc could store up to 1 GB data while PS1 could up to 700 MB.

- Dreamcast was cheaper than PS1.

- Dreamcast was stronger than PS1.

Then why Dreamcast couldn't beat PS1 despite it was kinda like how Sega Genesis beat NES? The answer is Dreamcast's library couldn't beat PS1's library at all. Dreamcast released too late, by the time it was released it got old so combining this and lack of decent library and PS2 was on its way Sega was fucked. Relatively despite a decent tech Sega failed again, again and again but the way they were was still useful for Microsoft to learn from them and use them for XBOX!!!!

What Sega had to do?: These stupid guys had to wait for PS2 to learn what kind of better console they should have release to beat Sony, Sega had to give up on "being ahead of the time" way before world could be ready for it. They learned their mistake from Saturn but their ass was too high above the cloud. They passed beyond space-era, they were lost in "dream-era" lol. But what PS1 did? They were realistic and they stayed within the realm of what is possible at the time which they played on decent library which is the most important aspect of a console. Genesis wasn't liked for it "more bits" or some shit, people liked it for its library which is not Sega didn't get for real and it was the reason why they failed, instead they were trying to sell a console with "bits" and "blast processing" BS lol.

That's very informative, I didn't know the Dreamcast could support Windows CE. Also yeah, I agree on why didn't it beat PS1. In fact, I think when the Saturn was released on such bad conditions, it didn't stain Sega's reputation, but it also destroyed the Dreamcast future/comeback before it even existed. There's something worth mentioning too, it's the GD-ROM. Sega didn't implement DVD format for the console. which it was starting to be the norm in late 90s, I think.