Has Sega finally learned their lesson?

[Endergod1]

SoR 4 isn't a remake.

On the other hand they should let Sonic go for a moment and fix Phantasy Star and Shining.

Oops, yeah, pardon me, it's a whole new game.
Although now that you mention these 2 rpgs, Shining has been jumping from one studio to another, and in my opinion, Camelot understood the series far better than any other studio prior. Not that Sega cares much about it nowadays.
I wish Phantasy Star V would be a thing though...

 

[bjork]

There is no returning to their roots. Even if you have the most ideal and Sega-friendly economic situation, it's not the same company just due to passage of time. Yu Suzuki is off elsewhere. Yuji Naka is... in prison, maybe? Reiko Kodama is no longer with us. And so many others. They can put out things and call them a new JSR or a new VF or whatever, but it's a new Sega, not return to anything from the old days. Which, I wish them all the luck in the world and hope they're successful, but "return to their roots" always has that connotation of "you're gonna love this like you loved [thing you experienced 30 years ago with zero personal hindsight]!" and that's just the wrong path to go down, if they choose to. Outside of reissuing old things, which they're good at for a specific subset of their library. I liked Sega and was a Genesis kid and all that, but that time is and has been over for a couple of decades now. It happens.

 

[Zerpina]

Well, things are starting to look up for SEGA. If it keeps going this way, we may get some good, solid remakes perhaps some old IPs that are stuck in limbo on the Master System and Mega Drive... and maybe, just maybe...

Now, if they could only figure out how to remake that ill-fated "SEGA CD" for the nostalgia parade! But I digress.

 

[Ikagura]

I wish Phantasy Star V would be a thing though...

Since IV concluded the series'

Spoiler

by killing the overarching antagonist

and that the team went to make Skies of Arcadia I can hardly see what PSV would be about. There's probably a good reason why they made Online then Universe then Online 2 and finally New Genesis (which I consider it a new subseries despite the name PSO2 and system in it).

There is no returning to their roots. Even if you have the most ideal and Sega-friendly economic situation, it's not the same company just due to passage of time. Yu Suzuki is off elsewhere. Yuji Naka is... in prison, maybe? Reiko Kodama is no longer with us. And so many others. They can put out things and call them a new JSR or a new VF or whatever, but it's a new Sega, not return to anything from the old days. Which, I wish them all the luck in the world and hope they're successful, but "return to their roots" always has that connotation of "you're gonna love this like you loved [thing you experienced 30 years ago with zero personal hindsight]!" and that's just the wrong path to go down, if they choose to. Outside of reissuing old things, which they're good at for a specific subset of their library. I liked Sega and was a Genesis kid and all that, but that time is and has been over for a couple of decades now. It happens.

Yu Suzuki kinda sunk Sega a bit with Shenmue.

Naka stopped working in the Sonic Team for over a decade.

 

[bjork]

Yu Suzuki kinda sunk Sega a bit with Shenmue.

Naka stopped working in the Sonic Team for over a decade.

Sega never got to where it was without Yu Suzuki. Everyone's got a dud or two in their portfolio.

And yes, Naka has been gone, exactly the point. It's a team chemistry thing that is always in flux, so the idea of pointing to anywhere in history and saying it'll be like this or like that... no it won't. It's supposed to be different, and that's fine.

 

[Ikagura]

Sega never got to where it was without Yu Suzuki. Everyone's got a dud or two in their portfolio.

And yes, Naka has been gone, exactly the point. It's a team chemistry thing that is always in flux, so the idea of pointing to anywhere in history and saying it'll be like this or like that... no it won't. It's supposed to be different, and that's fine.

Honestly I still think he got too full of himself without thinking of the rest.

As for Naka people puts him as the creator of Sonic when it was Naoto Oshima. Naka just happened to be there. Sonic managed to do better even after his departure post-2006.

 

[bjork]

Honestly I still think he got too full of himself without thinking of the rest.

As for Naka people puts him as the creator of Sonic when it was Naoto Oshima. Naka just happened to be there. Sonic managed to do better even after his departure post-2006.

I'm not looking directly at Shenmue as far as Yu Suzuki goes. Head back further and he gives Sega its identity as an innovator with the Super Scaler stuff, that helped lift them into prominence. And ultimately, Shenmue could've been cancelled by a higher-up, so place some blame there as well. Nakayama or Isao Okawa or whoever gave it the greenlight.

Naka also goes back further. You're focusing on individual things and I'm speaking as a total company. Naka was there in the SG-1000 days, it isn't like he showed up in 1991. As for Sonic specifically, they worked as a team, hence the name Sonic Team.

 

[Ikagura]

I'm not looking directly at Shenmue as far as Yu Suzuki goes. Head back further and he gives Sega its identity as an innovator with the Super Scaler stuff, that helped lift them into prominence. And ultimately, Shenmue could've been cancelled by a higher-up, so place some blame there as well. Nakayama or Isao Okawa or whoever gave it the greenlight.

I'm sorry for telling it but Nintendo and Sony have made many more innovations that stood the test of time than Sega overall.

Without Nintendo (especially Miyamoto and Yokoi) gaming wouldn't be like today. Without Yu Suzuki it would've just been Sega and arcade to a lesser extent.

Naka also goes back further. You're focusing on individual things and I'm speaking as a total company. Naka was there in the SG-1000 days, it isn't like he showed up in 1991. As for Sonic specifically, they worked as a team, hence the name Sonic Team.

The 8-bits console of Sega wasn't that relevant until the Sega Mark III/Master System to be honest.

I think people put a name on Sonic while he was just one member.

 

[bjork]

I'm sorry for telling it but Nintendo and Sony have made many more innovations that stood the test of time than Sega overall.

Without Nintendo (especially Miyamoto and Yokoi) gaming wouldn't be like today. Without Yu Suzuki it would've just been Sega and arcade to a lesser extent.


The 8-bits console of Sega wasn't that relevant until the Sega Mark III/Master System to be honest.

I think people put a name on Sonic while he was just one member.

I think you're purposely being dense here. No one was talking about Nintendo or Sony. You're saying Sega wasn't'/isn't that important, so if that is the case... why return to their roots? That's exactly the point. Whether they were good or not, it's a thing that can't be replicated. That's all I'm saying. The key figures of the company, whether you want to agree that they are key or not, are no longer there. They had influence on a thing that was highly successful at one point in time. That's all. Hopefully new people can carry them to even higher heights. It's really not that hard.

 

[Ikagura]

I think you're purposely being dense here. No one was talking about Nintendo or Sony. You're saying Sega wasn't'/isn't that important, so if that is the case... why return to their roots? That's exactly the point. Whether they were good or not, it's a thing that can't be replicated. That's all I'm saying. The key figures of the company, whether you want to agree that they are key or not, are no longer there. They had influence on a thing that was highly successful at one point in time. That's all. Hopefully new people can carry them to even higher heights. It's really not that hard.

Okay fine. I still think that Sega's roots aren't as strong as we think.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

They can most certainly be successful (they currently are) but "their roots" are tied to arcade game design, which is unappealing to the mainstream audiences, there are no big profits to be found there and it's unlikely they could design such games again: most, if not all of their (old) talent left or retired: the current devs didn't work on the classics, it's unlikely they even understand what made those games great.

And still most of the fans and people outside the Sega fandom praise the Dreamcast with its sheer amount of arcade and arcadey games ( and especially the arcade games made from sega : Crazy Taxi , Jet set Radio , 18-wheeler american pro trucker , Fighting Vipers , Virtual fighter and so on ) for its crazy designs/ concepts , high replayability , high octane action and even obscure secrets .

They shouldnt go entirely back to making arcade-games only but having that arcadey approach and design again to bring finally some variety in the industry instead going only for trends alone .

Retrogaming alone appeals way more people nowadays than modern gaming does . People are hungry for the variety of game-designs that even indies approach more arcadey-designs again to fill the void which tripple AAA-games used to make . Even if its niche , its still got its fans but if its not profitable for Sega then they missed out their opportunity and cant be successfull again by going nowadays industry standards . At this point , their doomed to fail .

 

[Ikagura]

And still most of the fans and people outside the Sega fandom praise the Dreamcast with its sheer amount of arcade and arcadey games ( and especially the arcade games made from sega : Crazy Taxi , Jet set Radio , 18-wheeler American pro trucker , Fighting Vipers , Virtual fighter and so on ) for its crazy designs/ concepts , high replayability , high octane action and even obscure secrets .

They shouldnt go entirely back to making arcade-games only but having that arcadey approach and design again to bring finally some variety in the industry instead going only for trends alone .

Retrogaming alone appeals way more people nowadays than modern gaming does . People are hungry for the variety of game-designs that even indies approach more arcadey-designs again to fill the void which tripple AAA-games used to make . Even if its niche , its still got its fans but if its not profitable for Sega then they missed out their opportunity and cant be successful again by going nowadays industry standards . At this point , their doomed to fail .

The issue is that even if retro gaming is appealing most people would rather emulate these arcade games instead of spending money on them.

 

[Yousef]

Honestly I still think he got too full of himself without thinking of the rest.

As for Naka people puts him as the creator of Sonic when it was Naoto Oshima. Naka just happened to be there. Sonic managed to do better even after his departure post-2006.

it’s a little more complex than that, Naoto created the character, but it was Naka who actually programmed the game, so it’s more like both of them created sonic, hence why they’re often crested as co-creators. Sonic team wasn’t just a catchy name, everyone played a key role in shaping the series.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

The issue is that even if retro gaming is appealing most people would rather emulate these arcade games instead of spending money on them.

True . And the new games they make must go above and beyond those arcade/original games to be successfull and worth to buy it . When those old games ,that are free to emulate and play , are much more pleasant than their new upcoming games , they failed to capture the roots of their glory they are aiming for .

And thats for me hard to believe that they can suceed .

But its right now more future-talk instead of actual results .

And when im wrong and their new games are huge bangers again then im more than happy to be wrong .

 

[Jediuser]

If they really mean that, they should already be hard at work designing the new Dreamcast.

You kidding, with companies expanding to PC, consoles are on their way out. The only chance Sega would have is making a competitor to the Switch.

 

[Yousef]

Consoles are not on their way out. They’re still more convenient than a PC.

 

[Jediuser]

Consoles are not on their way out. They’re still more convenient than a PC.

Why is that?

 

[Mopeybloke]

Since IV concluded the series'

Spoiler

by killing the overarching antagonist

and that the team went to make Skies of Arcadia I can hardly see what PSV would be about. There's probably a good reason why they made Online then Universe then Online 2 and finally New Genesis (which I consider it a new subseries despite the name PSO2 and system in it).

I think SEGA should probably look into remaking the Phantasy Star saga. Many people like the older games, but they are very grindy, and 2 and 3 have an annoying interface. The storytelling was also very sparse, and it could use being expanded.

 

[Ikagura]

I think SEGA should probably look into remaking the Phantasy Star saga. Many people like the older games, but they are very grindy, and 2 and 3 have an annoying interface. The storytelling was also very sparse, and it could use being expanded.

I'd be 100% for a remake in the style of a HD2D game.

The Sega Ages version of Phantasy Star 1 also fixed the grinding (and the minimap helps a ton). On the other hand a 3D remake would probably ruin the art style (I'm not fan of what they've done on the PS2).

You kidding, with companies expanding to PC, consoles are on their way out. The only chance Sega would have is making a competitor to the Switch.

In a better timeline Sega would've understood that PC was growing much higher in the 00's (as Arcade were fading out) so they would've focused on it instead of making shoddy ports on all available consoles for their series...

 

[t3mpt0n]

Dawg I just want a Sonic game as good as SA2.

 

[Ikagura]

Dawg I just want a Sonic game as good as SA2.

"As good as SA2" We already got games that surpassed it like Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania.

I'm sorry to tell you that but as time goes on I start to like SA2 less than before. I think that while Sonic's levels were fine Shadow's felt rushed (as he wasn't meant to be playable at first, even Sky Rails was meant for Sonic in the beta), Tails' Mech levels were annoying (aside from maybe Prison Lane and Eternal Engine but Eggman's were much more worked on) and the Treasure Hunting were pure slog that didn't need to be that big (at least SA1's Treasure Hunting went smoothly as the levels were rarely big outside of Lost World and Sky Deck and you had all 3 shards at once while SA2 made it so you'd only get one) and I won't talk about Rouge's levels.


Generations had two separate gameplay type and while Classic had a weird physics I think it's less tedious than doing Treasure Hunting. Colours had many 2.5D sections and Wisps broke the pace but it was still smooth.


I just want the Sonic Team to stop shoehorning gimmicks, alternative gameplay style and relying on nostalgia, we didn't get a fully original game since Colours.

 

[ThatOneLum]

A CEO using buzz words to try and pry open your wallet doesn't fill me with confidence.

Recycling and trotting out old IPs is a money tactic, not something that will save the reputation of a brand.

If SEGA wants my trust again, focus on what matters: actually making good games.

Sonic Frontiers + Shadow Generations are a great start, and they're got some solid titles in modern days with the latest Yakuza games. If they want to impress people again, make some new shit that's really exciting, and for god's sake, LET YOUR DEVELOPERS HAVE THE TIME THEY NEED.

Also, SA 1+2 deffo aren't the places they need to be focusing imo. By all means, put a B team on a port/re-release and maybe even ask fans what they'd like to see from it, but re-releasing a 20+ year old game is not going to save their rep for shit.

 

[Ikagura]

Recycling and trotting out old IPs is a money tactic, not something that will save the reputation of a brand.

On the other hand fans begged for decades to revive older untouched IPs.

If SEGA wants my trust again, focus on what matters: actually making good games.

Sonic Frontiers + Shadow Generations are a great start, and they're got some solid titles in modern days with the latest Yakuza games. If they want to impress people again, make some new shit that's really exciting, and for god's sake, LET YOUR DEVELOPERS HAVE THE TIME THEY NEED.

My issue is that these two Sonic games are too reliant on Nostalgia.

I mean why not making a new game in the style and ambition of Unleashed (minus the werehog part)? I mean not necessarily bringing hubs and humans back but at least having new levels that are challenging and lengthy.

Also, SA 1+2 deffo aren't the places they need to be focusing imo. By all means, put a B team on a port/re-release and maybe even ask fans what they'd like to see from it, but re-releasing a 20+ year old game is not going to save their rep for shit.

I am curious why they never ported the HD versions of SADX and SA2B from the XBLA and PSN to the Switch E-Shop.

But I'd prefer seeing a remake of Heroes or even Riders at first.

 

[Jeanfranc]

On the other hand fans begged for decades to revive older untouched IPs.

New Crazy Taxi title will be an open-world, massively multiplayer AAA game, according to Sega - AUTOMATON WEST

Sega's recruitment posting reveals that the new Crazy Taxi will be a large-scale open-world game.

automaton-media.com

 

[Ikagura]

New Crazy Taxi title will be an open-world, massively multiplayer AAA game, according to Sega - AUTOMATON WEST

Sega's recruitment posting reveals that the new Crazy Taxi will be a large-scale open-world game.

automaton-media.com

Basically unfortunately...