PC GOG released Dino Crisis 1 & 2!

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

- Buy Game from GOG
<snip>
GOG has no DRM and no need to log in to update/prove ownership/install games like other marketplaces such as Steam

Yes i know. I was on GoG back in 2014.

But you STILL can't sell an old game you don't want, there's no secondary market or transfer of ownership (even though according to EU law which they are suppose to also follow, says you should be able to), they don't keep every version of the game so the version you download is whatever's latest. (so the version you bought isn't necessarily the version you have access to a year later).

They can also like Steam, just delete your content or block your access if they really wanted to and if you don't agree to updated terms of agreement.

You don't own the game, you bought a 'license' to it, which has no more worth or value than a movie-ticket. Being DRM free IS a step in the right direction, but not good enough for me, not anymore.

 

[Tonberry]

Yes i know. I was on GoG back in 2014.

But you STILL can't sell an old game you don't want, there's no secondary market or transfer of ownership (even though according to EU law which they are suppose to also follow, says you should be able to), they don't keep every version of the game so the version you download is whatever's latest. (so the version you bought isn't necessarily the version you have access to a year later).

They can also like Steam, just delete your content or block your access if they really wanted to and if you don't agree to updated terms of agreement.

You don't own the game, you bought a 'license' to it, which has no more worth or value than a movie-ticket. Being DRM free IS a step in the right direction, but not good enough for me, not anymore.

There's a site that uploads gog games to download for free, but I dare not link it since linking to piracy outside of the repo is against the forum rules.
I know it's not about the issue you have with the site, but it's worth it for lots of stuff just for the streamlined gog installers and compatibility, imo.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

There's a site that uploads gog games to download for free

Mhmm, and is even brought up in the gog forums. I have my four or five places i keep an eye on.

 

[ouyrtuy]

Seeing PC ports is nice. But with CDPR and GoG going woke with DEI, leaves me hung up on how to feel.

As i'll recommend elsewhere; Unless they sell it on a disc, don't get it. You're only buying a license/access.

I know what you mean, but I don't think DEI affects the experience when it comes to remastering or improving older titles. Also, GoG is the only platform that focuses on improving older games. I consider Dino Crisis 1 and 2 being on GoG with new improvements to be very good news.

 

[NoctemDead]

Yes i know. I was on GoG back in 2014.

But you STILL can't sell an old game you don't want, there's no secondary market or transfer of ownership (even though according to EU law which they are suppose to also follow, says you should be able to), they don't keep every version of the game so the version you download is whatever's latest. (so the version you bought isn't necessarily the version you have access to a year later).

They can also like Steam, just delete your content or block your access if they really wanted to and if you don't agree to updated terms of agreement.

You don't own the game, you bought a 'license' to it, which has no more worth or value than a movie-ticket. Being DRM free IS a step in the right direction, but not good enough for me, not anymore.

I can't think of a form of modern game ownership that does fit your criteria then, certainly not for PC. Currently the legal ways to play it are buy an expensive copy of a 25 year old game on a console long out of commercial circulation and hope it maintains working condition, license it through a subscription service through Sony, or buy it on GOG and accept the few limited conditions that come with it. Buy it, download the installer and put it on a disk and then you have access to it whether you get banned from GOG or the internet dies forever or the government passes some dystopian censorship law with AI that goes around to network-connected devices and deletes copies of it.

It's not like buying Dino Crisis on PS1 or Dreamcast comes with patches and updates either so I don't understand that part of the argument.

I'm not sure how you're supposed to sell it without buying a physical good. With cartridges, CDs, GDs, etc., you're selling a physical unit which contains the data to play the game on a physical console. To sell a game purchased on an online storefront, you'd have to send it digitally or duplicate it. What would be the violation if you sold your PC that happened to have the game installed?

IMO it's actually impossible to enable re-selling while also satisfying all of the conditions you seek. How could you re-sell a game you purchased online? You either duplicate a thing which you still own and sell that duplicate, or you have to grant the ability to remove your access to the game and transfer that access to a third-party (which, per your words, would mean you were only granted a license and not actually in ownership of that thing). If you have a solution to re-sell a digital file of a game while satisfying all the criteria you've set up, I'd be interested to hear it.

I'm not sure what GOG is supposed to do better than providing a DRM-free, offline-backup-accessible permanent access to a file. Put the same file on a self-booting disk and mail it to you? You're free to do that already when you buy it. Personally I think these efforts should be supported as the only marketplace I'm aware of that's continually interested in supporting and providing access to games that are otherwise being lost to commercially viable means of access in the modern age.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

I consider Dino Crisis 1 and 2 being on GoG with new improvements to be very good news. Also, GoG is the only platform that focuses on improving older games.

I agree. But it falls under CDPR's pervue. I can only hope all they do is do the required updates to make it work with modern hardware (or make it work with emulation easier).

but I don't think DEI affects the experience when it comes to remastering or improving older titles.

Depends on what the 'experience' is. If it includes the GoG community, then in my opinion getting banned heavily marrs the experience.

DEI in a lot of places probably 'doesn't affect gameplay' in and of itself if you never look outside the game package; But on Reddit/discord with Helldivers 2 or Kingdom Come 2, ask simple questions and you get banned. Very funny thing that...

 

[Leifang]

> complaining about DEI
> using woke unironically
Yep, this post is a certified trash.

I just love that this retro gaming community is so chill the weirdos get instantly called out. Thanks!

BTW, physical releases are also just a license. You never "owned" the movie on DVD. The point is your access cannot be revoked when you have files or installer, while even Steam can stop you from using the game at any minute.

GOG never will since it doesn't phone home on accessing (as long as you got the files in the first place, of course).

Gamers campaigning against DRM-free releases because of weird ideological reasons are just clowning on themselves. Using words like "pervue" and "marrs" makes those terminally online political shittakes sound even more lame.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

What would be the violation if you sold your PC that happened to have the game installed?

Do you intend never to log into GoG/Steam again? If so then fine you're in the good...

Or, Do you intend to insist GoG/Steam delete your game from their library?

IMO it's actually impossible to enable re-selling while also satisfying all of the conditions you seek. How could you re-sell a game you purchased online? You either duplicate a thing which you still own and sell that duplicate, or you have to grant the ability to remove your access to the game and transfer that access to a third-party (which, per your words, would mean you were only granted a license and not actually in ownership of that thing). If you have a solution to re-sell a digital file of a game while satisfying all the criteria you've set up, I'd be interested to hear it.

Unless you end up going with a physical token as an access key (dongles, or in this case one of the only use cases i can think of for NFT's) then the ability to copy digital stuff is just far too easy.

Personally I'd rather see copyright shortened to 10-20 years and all this goes into the bin because it doesn't matter. People who distribute content for free, may instead choose to wait 5 years after the publication (to/or when) physical copies are no longer being made. And people who love those companies and games, will buy regardless, preferably something physical rather than a digital permission slip.

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2025

BTW, physical releases are also just a license. You never "owned" the movie on DVD.

But you own something they can't take away and can be physically traded. The license is part of the product. They say 'license' which gives permission to access their content because they can't just sell the rights to something as a whole for a movie/game that cost them thousands or millions of dollars. That just would be silly.

 

[NoctemDead]

Do you intend never to log into GoG/Steam again? If so then fine you're in the good...

Or, Do you intend to insist GoG/Steam delete your game from their library?

Having the library from which to download the files again is the service. You don't get this if you buy Dino Crisis on the Dreamcast. GD burns in a fire? No more game for you. You're looking at a positive of the platform that doesn't exist if you buy the original disc, and then saying it's a negative that that additional (free) service can be lost through ToS violations or policy changes. Download the game, burn it to a disc, and you have the exact same physical thing you are talking about with buying a CD-ROM game from 1999.

Unless you end up going with a physical token as an access key (dongles, or in this case one of the only use cases i can think of for NFT's) then the ability to copy digital stuff is just far too easy.

Personally I'd rather see copyright shortened to 10-20 years and all this goes into the bin because it doesn't matter. People who distribute content for free, may instead choose to wait 5 years after the publication (to/or when) physical copies are no longer being made. And people who love those companies and games, will buy regardless, preferably something physical rather than a digital permission slip.

So this is an ideological problem with the copyright system as a whole. That's fine, but completely extraneous in the context of the discussion. What is a company like GOG supposed to do better to, in good faith, provide ongoing and restriction-free access to games which have not been commercially available in years? Before GOG released these games, you could play them via subscription service on the Playstation Network. Is the gaming world now better or worse now that GOG has made this option available?

Would it be cool if GOG did physical releases? Surely, but they also have to make a profit to keep doing what they do and need to do what's commercially viable for them. There are companies out there releasing retro and indie games in physical forms. Those should be supported also. Nothing wrong with that.

But you own something they can't take away and can be physically traded. The license is part of the product. They say 'license' which gives permission to access their content because they can't just sell the rights to something as a whole for a movie/game that cost them thousands or millions of dollars. That just would be silly.

So take the files, put the .exe on a disk and put it in a jewel case on the shelf next to your original CD ROM. What's the functional difference? That can't be taken away (barring theft or some kind of court order, I suppose) and can be physically traded.

 

[Leifang]

But you own something they can't take away and can be physically traded. The license is part of the product. They say 'license' which gives permission to access their content because they can't just sell the rights to something as a whole for a movie/game that cost them thousands or millions of dollars. That just would be silly.

Irrelevant, you can physically trade burned CDRs too, Try reading my entire sentence instead of cutting away most of it then answering the first half. I also said:

The point is your access cannot be revoked when you have files or installer, while even Steam can stop you from using the game at any minute.

DRM-free is actually a good thing. It doesn't matter if you have a CD of a game that needs a server to get activated, you don't own the game, you have a glorified drink coaster.

Digital or physical doesn't matter. Having data does. If a Steam server dies, or you're banned, or they update the program to no longer be compatible with your OS (happened recently to people on Win7 and 8.1), you literally cannot play the game you bought from it.

Like, why should I support being stopped from playing a single player game because of server maintenance?

But I can install disc or GOG version of a game, and it always works. My old CDs work on legacy PC, and so do Good Old Games installers, Steam doesn't... And it's not a dig on Valve specifically, Epic, UbiConnect and EA apps are even worse. Stop killing games!

P.S. Just to make your kind more offended, while CDPR aren't perfect, but they obviously have the moral high ground:

Suspending sales in Russia and Belarus

Suspending sales in Russia and Belarus

www.gog.com

Valve hasn't done anything like this because they value TINY bit of profit they get from there over common sense. Unfortunately. Also because they think they can hide across the pond.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

Having the library from which to download the files again is the service. You don't get this if you buy Dino Crisis on the Dreamcast. GD burns in a fire? No more game for you. You're looking at a positive of the platform that doesn't exist if you buy the original disc, and then saying it's a negative that that additional (free) service can be lost through ToS violations or policy changes. Download the game, burn it to a disc, and you have the exact same physical thing you are talking about with buying a CD-ROM game from 1999.

It's NOT a free service. If it were to stand as an archive up forever then sure, and if it included all versions they posted then great.

But GoG is just another steam. The only difference being the decoupled client and not using DRM.

So this is an ideological problem with the copyright system as a whole. That's fine, but completely extraneous in the context of the discussion.

Maybe. Maybe i have this stigmatism and belief, that commercially made products should be allowed to be sold or given away. We're talking VHS tapes or CD's or DVD's you once bought at the store.

Then i have a paralell belief that made copies should NOT be sold, and instead are only given freely because the effort to copy said product was far less than the original, and also has an inferior lifespan (and possibly technically inferrior in quality too, but that's media not games...)

So you pay money for something that has no physical form, you are told not to copy it and not to distribute it, yet it is functionally on par with a copy.

Also judges (though stupidly) have ruled against sites and companies that merely downloading something is on par with making a brand new copy of something vs how it's seen as on-air where you have to be there in the moment to consume said product and you can't save it (and then the whole VHS ruling and them trying to outlaw VHS's and tapes).

What is a company like GOG supposed to do better to, in good faith, provide ongoing and restriction-free access to games which have not been commercially available in years? Before GOG released these games, you could play them via subscription service on the Playstation Network. Is the gaming world now better or worse now that GOG has made this option available?

This is why i said i'm unsure, as i'm glad the product exists. But i don't like GoG for their treatment of me, etc.

I'd much prefer if you could in theory buy discs of said game and have it mailed to you. Not burned, but pressed. CDs and DVD's are like 5 cents each to press, though you do batches of 10,000 at a time. So if i could ask for my 100 game library (it's larger than 100 games, but for the sake of argument) to be sent to me, I'd likely pay shipping and they do everything else. Problem solved.

Would it be cool if GOG did physical releases? Surely, but they also have to make a profit to keep doing what they do and need to do what's commercially viable for them. There are companies out there releasing retro and indie games in physical forms. Those should be supported also. Nothing wrong with that.

So take the files, put the .exe on a disk and put it in a jewel case on the shelf next to your original CD ROM. What's the functional difference? That can't be taken away (barring theft or some kind of court order, I suppose) and can be physically traded.

Functional difference? Probably nothing.

Legal difference... maybe you forgot the FBI warning at the beginning of every DVD/VHS tape threatening to fine you for $300,000 for making or sharing copies of said content (if you get caught...). And should i decide to sell content i believed i owned because i paid for it, and then get thrown in jail and my life ruined for naively believing i actually owned what i paid for...

The MIAA and MPAA have ruined lives for far far far less.

 

[NoctemDead]

It's NOT a free service. If it were to stand as an archive up forever then sure, and if it included all versions they posted then great.

But GoG is just another steam. The only difference being the decoupled client and not using DRM.

How is it not a free service? GoG accounts are free. You make one, you buy the game, you download the offline installer or the full game. If you choose NOT to download all that you paid for at the time of purchase, but instead to leave it in your digital library, you are choosing to trust continued access to the (once again, free) service that GOG provides in hosting that as an online storefront. Which is, again, a service that you don't get access to if you go to eBay and buy Dino Crisis for PS1.

Decoupling the client, providing installers, and being DRM-Free IS the difference between GOG and Steam - that and the active work GOG does on seeking out games with deprecated accessibility and making them commercially available with additional work to make them the best possible experience on modern machines.

Maybe. Maybe i have this stigmatism and belief, that commercially made products should be allowed to be sold or given away. We're talking VHS tapes or CD's or DVD's you once bought at the store.

Then i have a paralell belief that made copies should NOT be sold, and instead are only given freely because the effort to copy said product was far less than the original, and also has an inferior lifespan (and possibly technically inferrior in quality too, but that's media not games...)

You are making the argument that digital products are nearly impossible to actually own, unless maybe you're a believer in blockchain technology or something. I personally feel much more in ownership of games that I have stored on even a burned CD than I do a "token" tied to a ledger which would permit me to resell it. Maybe that is just a fundamental difference of opinion but that is the only way I can conceptualize both digital ownership and freedom of resale. And I do not believe gamers would accept that (at least in this point in time)

I'd much prefer if you could in theory buy discs of said game and have it mailed to you. Not burned, but pressed. CDs and DVD's are like 5 cents each to press, though you do batches of 10,000 at a time. So if i could ask for my 100 game library (it's larger than 100 games, but for the sake of argument) to be sent to me, I'd likely pay shipping and they do everything else. Problem solved.

This would be great. I would love for this to be available, as well as nice cases and gloss printed manuals. I'd be all for it. But I don't think it's the world we're living in right now. Remember that this has to be done either as a taxpayer (or philanthropist)-funded public good, or a viable business platform. There are some attempts at providing services like these but they are all relatively small scale and limited in the amount of games they can actually bring compared to a digital platform. And they are prone to intentional limited runs, scarcity and scalping (e.g. $150 Persona physical games on Switch)

I'm not sure there's much further to take this discussion except to say I am glad that GOG is pursuing cases like this and will continue supporting them and choosing to buy my games there vs. Steam when I have the option

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

How is it not a free service? GoG accounts are free. You make one, you buy the game,

You just answered your own question. Though to make the site minimally work at all is not that much an improvement. Like some people arguing requiring electricity to run your computer is DRM, or having an account is DRM.

You are making the argument that digital products are nearly impossible to actually own, unless maybe you're a believer in blockchain technology or something.

You don't own any digital products; At least digital-only ones. That's why i suggested NFT as a possible usecase for those damn things. Though I'd prefer it was then transferred to a chip and embedded in something like, oh say a Casino chip, and then you could trade it as you would any other object. Sites that incorporate this method you'd likely have a reader and the chip for the NFT would have a crypto, they send it garbage, it sends back expected garbage. Verification complete! (This is similar to SSL handshaking).

A public blockchain of what games you own doesn't sound all that bad, so long as you can play/access your game forever, and you can transfer it to someone else, and everyone honored it.

But ideals and theoreticals of ownership aside, at this point i'd rather everything just was dumped on the public domain and start over with a clean slate of what's open and what isn't.

Post automatically merged: Jan 30, 2025

and choosing to buy my games there vs. Steam

You mean, paying for a license... you don't own anything except access. And that can be revoked at any time, for any reason.

 

[NoctemDead]

You just answered your own question. Though to make the site minimally work at all is not that much an improvement. Like some people arguing requiring electricity to run your computer is DRM, or having an account is DRM.

GOG as a service (a marketplace and digital library for purchased assets) is free. There are free games on GOG. You can theoretically access GOG for free and claim free games, and get those files and save them DRM-free. That is the free service GOG provides - access, hosting, and transfer. You may have to pay for the individual assets, yes, but through the free service. You don't pay a brokerage fee per download, for instance.

A public blockchain of what games you own doesn't sound all that bad, so long as you can play/access your game forever, and you can transfer it to someone else, and everyone honored it.

Do I really own something if I must attach a token and verify ownership to play it? How is this not doing what you already hate about Steam/GOG et al? Oops, can't play my single player game because I can't access the network to verify my ownership token. Ope, my game wallet address got blocked because I was IP banned from the service and they identified the wallet as tied to that IP address.

But ideals and theoreticals of ownership aside, at this point i'd rather everything just was dumped on the public domain and start over with a clean slate of what's open and what isn't.

I don't think there's a productive discussion to be had with this point. You want the whole system burnt down and a new, miraculously better, one put in its place. Many such cases throughout history. Until you come up with the perfect idea and get the power behind it to implement it, and successfully run it without corruption or mission creep or enshittification, it's just ideals. Ideals with billions of dollars of implications behind them. Companies like GOG could wait for an ideal system like this to be created, or they can work in the framework we have now to continue making games more accessible to average consumers in a way that is more pro-consumer than anybody else I can think of on the open market currently.

You mean, paying for a license... you don't own anything except access. And that can be revoked at any time, for any reason.

Ok, I've just downloaded Fallout 2 to my SSD from GOG. How can can this be revoked in any way that owning a CD of Fallout 2 could not?

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

GOG as a service (a marketplace and digital library for purchased assets) is free. There are free games on GOG. You can theoretically access GOG for free and claim free games, and get those files and save them DRM-free. That is the free service GOG provides

No more 'Free' than steam is 'Free'. They may house some free stuff but consider those crumbs to entice business, and not out of the goodness of their hearts. Profits pay for some future bandwidth costs, there's just the assumptions that enough sales will happen year over year that CDPR doesn't close them down, and to pay for said costs.

Do I really own something if I must attach a token and verify ownership to play it? How is this not doing what you already hate about Steam/GOG et al? Oops, can't play my single player game because I can't access the network to verify my ownership token.

It would be different, in the fact for transferring ownership it would be a physical object. You'd only register the token and get your game in your library, but if someone else registers it, it gets removed from your library.

Naturally what's already downloaded and being used, can't/shouldn't be removed.

Think of it more like a reusable redemption key... But since it isn't a series of hexes it isn't something that can be claimed randomly by someone else.

Ok, I've just downloaded Fallout 2 to my SSD from GOG. How can can this be revoked in any way that owning a CD of Fallout 2 could not?

Your downloaded and CD game? No.

Your account? Certainly... or do you control the GoG servers and if they should decide to ban you?

People have invested hundreds or THOUSANDS of dollars into their libraries... only to find... it can be just taken away...

PlayStation Will Delete Purchased Discovery Shows

Sony said that the Discovery shows, including “MythBusters” and “Deadliest Catch,” would be deleted from the devices on Dec. 31, citing “content licensing arrangements with content providers.”

web.archive.org

PlayStation Network’s terms of service states that “all content” provided, including on the PlayStation Store, is “licensed on a nonexclusive and revocable basis.”

GoG and Steam have similar agreements. Though if we have to go back to Amazon's removal of books from people's kindles (Being 1984 and Animal House) that i wouldn't put anything past any of them.

 

[ZombieFish]

Yeah, I have a huge offline library of GoG games that all install and play with no internet connection required. These complaints are just not based on reality at all. Also, seems like maybe you getting banned was a skill issue. Also, Dino Crisis and RGT rules. <3

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

Yeah, I have a huge offline library of GoG games that all install and play with no internet connection required.

Hope you have everything downloaded; And again the license vs ownership is missed.

But i guess it doesn't really matter. You'll see when it happens to you.

 

[NoctemDead]

No more 'Free' than steam is 'Free'. They may house some free stuff but consider those crumbs to entice business, and not out of the goodness of their hearts. Profits pay for some future bandwidth costs, there's just the assumptions that enough sales will happen year over year that CDPR doesn't close them down, and to pay for said costs.

Yes, GOG is free. It is a free marketplace. And a library and a couple of other things (file manager, storage for cloud saves, etc.). The stuff you buy in the marketplace is not free.

The flea market is free to go to. You have to pay for the games at the retro game store in the flea market though. Same concept. Of course they do it for profit. Free to access doesn't mean non-profit.

It would be different, in the fact for transferring ownership it would be a physical object. You'd only register the token and get your game in your library, but if someone else registers it, it gets removed from your library.

Naturally what's already downloaded and being used, can't/shouldn't be removed.

Think of it more like a reusable redemption key... But since it isn't a series of hexes it isn't something that can be claimed randomly by someone else.

So in other words... when you remove it from your library, you want your access to be revoked. Meaning they have the power to do the very thing you're complaining about right now. Accept then you say it shouldn't be revoked if it's downloaded and being used. So it's toothless. And it either relies on phoning home to ensure your verification is still active, or it's even more toothless. It's a fantasy. Which is fine, until you hold it against people living in the real world for failing to compare.

Your downloaded and CD game? No.

Your account? Certainly... or do you control the GoG servers and if they should decide to ban you?

People have invested hundreds or THOUSANDS of dollars into their libraries... only to find... it can be just taken away...

Yes, it can be taken away. If you rely on the free, ongoing service as a digital access library and then violate terms of service, you can be banned and lose access.

If, however, you purchase your collection and then download it and burn it onto discs, you still have your collection. They're not uploading a program to commandeer all your devices and destroy it. You still get to access your games - if you chose to take the responsibility on yourself of putting the offered files in a backup format.

Honestly, I'm taking away from OP's post by even continuing to respond to this. I honestly think getting yourself banned from GOG forums has just made such an impact on you that you're struggling to come to terms with the fact that, yes, you can be removed from social spaces if you are found to be disruptive. Maybe you didn't take advantage of GOG's offer of including backup installers, relied on their ongoing services under terms you agreed to when you made the account, and then lost access. I don't know. It is what it is at this point.

Congrats to Dino Crisis fans on a new re-release in an accessible, DRM-free format. Hope they enjoy and hope GOG continues to bring us many more games. I will not be responding to this particular line of comments about it because at this point it feels selfish to drag it out since all's been said.

 

[AnonymousCookieMonster]

So in other words... when you remove it from your library, you want your access to be revoked. Meaning they have the power to do the very thing you're complaining about right now

No more than having a game missing from your shelf because you sold/gave it to someone else.

But whatever, if you don't see the point/problem then fine, i'm not going to argue it anymore.

 

[ZombieFish]

Hope you have everything downloaded; And again the license vs ownership is missed.

But i guess it doesn't really matter. You'll see when it happens to you.

That’s like saying “I hope you’re still in possession of your physical games, cause otherwise you can’t put them in your console.” … Like… Yes? That’s how that works. And no, my copies of GoG games aren’t licenses, they are the games.

 

[DunkeyKong]

Hmm, never thought I'd would see an argument about GOG in a thread about Dino Crisis

I guess you could that this was…a crisis

 

[SyphonFilter12]

Nah downloaded the rebirth project better.