Game franchises that have regressed

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Pokémon is often a big debate about when it became worse.

Gen 3 still had flaws but then again people requested for more story rather than just "get 8 badges, fight against an evil org and win the Elite Four to get to the credits". Gen V wasn't seen as a good story? I haven't seen it but people wanted more.

Well ... I never played the Gen 5 Pokemon and i cant say on those games exactly if it was rather bland or great . Yeah my comment should be taken with a grain of salt but i think there is still a Point there . But the stories of the later Pokemon gens are way too soft-handed if it goes into the more darker topics . Gen 1 and 2 (especially Gen 1) had the hidden power-plant and the cinnabar island building for the door-key of the Arena which both had not so much lore to it but were great theory material that dived into the really bizarre and creepy aspects of Pokemon while maintained the mystery because nothing was spelled out entirely . Its more the setting-writing of those two places that gave the contrasts so much Impact instead of the story alone .

DoD regressed when they focused on the hot women rather than it being a fighting game like Tekken...

The Xtreme Beach Volleyball was really a massive example of that...

I agree . Xtreme beach Volleyball was the pure fan-service game that made the spin-offs great for their own . DoA was the perfect combo of Sexappeal , badassery Action and fast-pace Arcade goodness . The Sexappeal wasnt the illness that the series suffered and more its strength that made the franchise stick out . The real problem lies that DoA was a series with content rich unlockables , secrets and really breakneck speedy Combat that DoA5 almost got right but fumbled with its content (the huge amount of DLCs that replaced unlockables ) and never had cool Secrets that had strict conditions that suprises you by activating them accidently .

DoA6 tried to take out the Sexappeal away from the series which got some backlash alone for it but even design-wise it wasnt great with the Meter and the super-moves that broke the Trinity of the gameplay core (attacks<holds<grabs<repeat) and became much more a tumour in its gameplay instead of good mechanics . Thats why Virtual Fighter stayed without a meter and stayed to its core-principals but added more mechanics in its already existing move-sets and added new moves and whole characters when its needed .

The loli characters can be seen as another point which could contributed on DoAs downfall but thats a topic doesnt lead to any conclusions and results because those we're added way later and most DoA Fans consider 1-4 as the best games overall with the 5th Game being as an exception .

Sorry for the long text .
Need to keep those comments shorter .

 

[LaserMoose]

-Pokemon
The Franchise lost its adventoures touch after Gen 3 and focused too much on the Story instead going for more Exploration and for fresh new approaches what kind of Trainer you could be . Would be cool to be a Team Rocket-member and work yourself through the ranks to become the new head of Team Rocket besides Giovanni itsself . Making the Pokemon League as something that could unlock different possibilities to make your Trainer have different Goals to Archive and open up Dungeons and Ruins to explore exklusive to this way would be dope as hell . But we got Stories that were underwhelming and overloaded with time-wasting Exposition overall that shows us cool stuff but doesnt let us involve or ignore it for our own Goals and profit. What a shame .

While I don't disagree that it would be fun/interesting to have a game where the player is working for an evil team, I don't think this makes sense from the perspective of those at TPC. At least, not for a mainline game.

Pokémon as a series has always had a focus on mainstream appeal, and I think it's why every mainline entry has the same kind of self insert protagonist. As soon as they give the player character a fleshed out story, it becomes more difficult to self insert. Plus, GF want players to be the hero of the story, and becoming head of Team Rocket would be pretty much the polar opposite of that.

The farthest I can see the games ever going to having a morally ambiguous player character is Pokémon Colosseum's Wes, who defects from a villain team during the intro of the game. But even then, Wes still acts just like every other player character in the series afterwards.

But we got Stories that were underwhelming and overloaded with time-wasting Exposition overall that shows us cool stuff but doesnt let us involve or ignore it for our own Goals and profit. What a shame .

In the case of something like Gen VIII, where the plot seemingly focuses on whatever Leon's doing to move the game forward, I agree with what you are saying here.

But Gen IV and Gen V at the very least had the player front and center in the conflicts.

Edit: I'll add that in the case of ignoring the story, that would only work if the player is a villain, right? I can't see how this would be done as a way to profit, otherwise.

Gen V wasn't seen as a good story? I haven't seen it but people wanted more.

Compared to the other mainline entries, Gen V is considered to have a good story by most people I've seen online.

Other edit: I sent this just a few moments before Ruinwalker made his last post - I'll add that Gen VI also had a mysterious power plant, as well as a ghost girl, which both received many theories and discussions about them.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Well ... I never played the Gen 5 Pokemon and i cant say on those games exactly if it was rather bland or great . Yeah my comment should be taken with a grain of salt but i think there is still a Point there . But the stories of the later Pokemon gens are way too soft-handed if it goes into the more darker topics . Gen 1 and 2 (especially Gen 1) had the hidden power-plant and the cinnabar island building for the door-key of the Arena which both had not so much lore to it but were great theory material that dived into the really bizarre and creepy aspects of Pokemon while maintained the mystery because nothing was spelled out entirely . Its more the setting-writing of those two places that gave the contrasts so much Impact instead of the story alone .

Let's be honest: Pokémon has always been for kids.

If you want an actual adult story you should play Shin Megami Tensei.

Compared to the other mainline entries, Gen V is considered to have a good story by most people I've seen online.

They're still ultimately basic RPGs.

The farthest I can see the games ever going to having a morally ambiguous player character is Pokémon Colosseum's Wes, who defects from a villain team during the intro of the game. But even then, Wes still acts just like every other player character in the series afterwards.

Colosseum was kinda "Un-Pokémon-y" in its feeling imo.

Then again the Mystery Dungeon games also were a bit different.

 

[LaserMoose]

They're still ultimately basic RPGs.

Absolutely. That was why I mentioned that they were good in the context of the series, rather than something like Final Fantasy Tactics and the like.

Colosseum was kinda "Un-Pokémon-y" in its feeling imo.

Then again the Mystery Dungeon games also were a bit different.

I also agree here as well. Colo and XD both do things pretty differently from the other games, but I don't think either are considered mainline games by most. You do need them to finish the Gen III pokedex, however.

The Mystery Dungeon games are also very much spinoffs, as much as I love PMD1 and PMD2. I think the discussion was mostly towards the mainline games. I mentioned Colosseum because Wes is as far as I'd think the games would go for a player character's villainy (or lack thereof, of course).

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Let's be honest: Pokémon has always been for kids.

If you want an actual adult story you should play Shin Megami Tensei.

True but I would rather go for the middle ground . Teens . Going adult with its story isnt working for sure but absolutely kid friendly doesnt do it too lately because it showed its potential early on but never catched that on later gens .

I mean going brutal , gorey and very edgy /extremly dark for Pokemon is stupid and we have enough creepy-pasta games that its right now pure Comedy-gold .

But going a few notches darker wouldnt hurt and finally give enough contrast that it doesnt end up as way too happy overall in its bright moment and slightly annoyed at its dark moments .

But thats just my opinion how it should .

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 12:55 PM

Other edit: I sent this just a few moments before Ruinwalker made his last post - I'll add that Gen VI also had a mysterious power plant, as well as a ghost girl, which both received many theories and discussions about them.

View attachment 89167

Oh yeah . Still need to beat that Game .
I think i play it through and hope im wrong . Thanks for the reminder Lasermoose !

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Absolutely. That was why I mentioned that they were good in the context of the series, rather than something like Final Fantasy Tactics and the like.

I also agree here as well. Colo and XD both do things pretty differently from the other games, but I don't think either are considered mainline games by most. You do need them to finish the Gen III pokedex, however.

The Mystery Dungeon games are also very much spinoffs, as much as I love PMD1 and PMD2. I think the discussion was mostly towards the mainline games. I mentioned Colosseum because Wes is as far as I'd think the games would go for a player character's villainy (or lack thereof, of course).

FFT is nice and I feel like it even surpasses some of the mainline entries but I'm bad at tactical games.

I fear Colo would feel edgy... Home console Pokémon games since the 64 days always felt like addons with a game attached to it.

Mystery Dungeons are great because I love Chunsoft's Mystery Dungeon franchise.

PMD3&4 are less good? I do like the more serious story without going too edgy.

Also because I love playing as an actual mon rather than being a trainer giving orders.

True but I would rather go for the middle ground . Teens . Going adult with its story isnt working for sure but absolutely kid friendly doesnt do it too lately because it showed its potential early on but never catched that on later gens .

I mean going brutal , gorey and very edgy /extremly dark for Pokemon is stupid and we have enough creepy-pasta games that its right now pure Comedy-gold .

But going a few notches darker wouldnt hurt and finally give enough contrast that it doesnt end up as way too happy overall in its bright moment and slightly annoyed at its dark moments .

But thats just my opinion how it should .

Are teens the target demographic?

I always felt like Digimon was the one being aimed at them.

Kinda like how Mario was for a younger audience than Sonic back in the days.

Also adults insisting on wanting Pokémon to be edgy are not that mature imo...

Just having actual stakes would suffice I think.

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Are teens the target demographic?

I always felt like Digimon was the one being aimed at them.

You're right .
Why making a game towards kids changing its target demographic when Digimon is still kicking ?

I think Pokemon aint something for me anymore except the TCG games .

At this Point im yelling at the clouds for being cloudy .

 

[KaiserMk7]

But going a few notches darker wouldnt hurt and finally give enough contrast that it doesnt end up as way too happy overall in its bright moment and slightly annoyed at its dark moments .

Scarlet and Violet are a bit dark in ways that the series hadn't previously explored.

 

[A1reas]

Simply put what gaming franchises do you think have gotten worse overtime?

My answer is Yoshi. Despite Yoshi's Island technically being a Super Mario World title it still was bombastic in it's mechanics, music, everything. I even learned that it does that thing Super Mario Bros did where as you progress the time of day changes with an example being the transition from world 2 to

I already didnt like World, it was the worst thing that ever happened to Mh since it made it popular to the mainstream and thus doomed it, the DLC made it quiet good but before Iceborne it was also unfinished trash imo, just not as rancid as Rise/Wilds. Rise with DLC also became pretty good but the base game was even worse than World. They keep on making the hunter stronger and youre basically just turning into Dante/Bayonetta more and more with every en

You are free to not care, but being sour about it won't change the mind of Capcom execs. Fans will always stay, it's Capcom's responsibility to acknowledge this by, again, giving classic fans access to the whole library .

The last of us
I think mgs series

 

[Graves Ruinwalker]

Scarlet and Violet are a bit dark in ways that the series hadn't previously explored.

I might look it up later .
Right now im Back for Beastbusters : Dark Arms and i have few other Games in the backlog.
Maybe i might watching a longplay of Scarlet or Violet . Dont wanna play too many Pokemon Games right now .