Final Fantasy XIV Thread

[Sumea]

2013:

 

[jiyuuboyetsvi]

2013:
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GARUDA

"PULL HER SOUTH PULL HER SOUTH"

 

[bigstinkie]

i feel as if final fantasy xvi has an incredible pull as even when another final fantasy game is the topic i read the word 'garuda' in clive's voice

 

[Sumea]

GARUDA

"PULL HER SOUTH PULL HER SOUTH"

MAN. I would love to express the pain of knowing all the bosses between 2.0 and 3.X only for their mechanics to not matter what so ever. Even yeti people just spank and tank because of current "amazing" changes in the game that are actually 5 years old now if not older. The times I would level tank I could actually show how Yeti should go down just because I could force it happen like it is supposed to. XIV as a game is such a joke these days really. It was not all sunshine and 600ms ping but at least there was even slight how-to-play aspect to even basic dungeon bosses, just more simple than raids. Original Crystal Tower was fun also. Heck, I made this weird build with cross class skills back in the day where I could use lvl50 conjurer with really viable staff and bunch of tank skills, only to have my team go "OH MY GOD CNJ IN CT" and wait extra 5 minutes for team members who could not escape even if they wanted to. Instead I used the CNJ and provoke and stuff to show tanks how platinals pulls should go etc. I even heard there was theoretical Pugilist build that was better than monk if you had all the right cross class going on. Oh, not to mention the time when you wanted to AOE spam through a dungeon, you made a party with three white mages and a tank. The game was just that much more interesting as a game when it was not refined into shiny piece of poo. Does shine I guess but there is nothing interesting I liked, even if I had to deal with unbearable lag. Also getting to see how Mohr Dhona would be built up more and more every patch and people figuring out weird places to go in there with BLM skills and such.

2020/2021.


Worst thing with XIV screenshots is them being named date month year instead of year month date format so the file names would keep a chronological order better.

 

[jiyuuboyetsvi]

MAN. I would love to express the pain of knowing all the bosses between 2.0 and 3.X only for their mechanics to not matter what so ever. Even yeti people just spank and tank because of current "amazing" changes in the game that are actually 5 years old now if not older. The times I would level tank I could actually show how Yeti should go down just because I could force it happen like it is supposed to. XIV as a game is such a joke these days really. It was not all sunshine and 600ms ping but at least there was even slight how-to-play aspect to even basic dungeon bosses, just more simple than raids. Original Crystal Tower was fun also. Heck, I made this weird build with cross class skills back in the day where I could use lvl50 conjurer with really viable staff and bunch of tank skills, only to have my team go "OH MY GOD CNJ IN CT" and wait extra 5 minutes for team members who could not escape even if they wanted to. Instead I used the CNJ and provoke and stuff to show tanks how platinals pulls should go etc. I even heard there was theoretical Pugilist build that was better than monk if you had all the right cross class going on. Oh, not to mention the time when you wanted to AOE spam through a dungeon, you made a party with three white mages and a tank. The game was just that much more interesting as a game when it was not refined into shiny piece of poo. Does shine I guess but there is nothing interesting I liked, even if I had to deal with unbearable lag. Also getting to see how Mohr Dhona would be built up more and more every patch and people figuring out weird places to go in there with BLM skills and such.

2020/2021.
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Worst thing with XIV screenshots is them being named date month year instead of year month date format so the file names would keep a chronological order better.

go fucking OFF king

i wasnt there for ARR and was a HW baby instead, but this level of jank was still basically there, tho with newer skills. i absofuckinglutely hate the way FFXIV has been going. the dumbing down of everything that i once loved as made is so dreadfully boring. i remember taking the entirety of Void Ark on content as a Dragoon one time cause the tanks couldnt keep aggro for shit xD

 

[Tonberry]

I miss Job questlines the most.
It feels weird to, for example, play Warrior from 90 to 100, and all of a sudden I'm a volcano-mancer without any explanation other than that it looks cool (which it definitely does, not knocking the actual abilities) or Scholar suddenly turning into an angel or whatever. I know they very rarely explained the actual spells/abilities, but the Job quests were a good way to sort of keep track of your journey in the actual world outside of the main story, as a Job (For example, it was always weird to me how they introduce Viper as this hardened monster hunter, tracking beasts that other's couldn't take down, when that already kind of was what defined Marauder).
I'd love for that extra little bit of "logic" to still be there for the Jobs, and I don't really care for the "Well there are so many Jobs now so it'd be too much work!" because I think it's something worth putting in the work for.

The best part of FFXIV was how it took itself so seriously with the world and its own constructed rules and logic and all that stuff, and I feel like it's become sort of too de-mystified from at least Endwalker and onward, at least for me.

 

[Sumea]

The best part of FFXIV was how it took itself so seriously with the world and its own constructed rules and logic and all that stuff, and I feel like it's become sort of too de-mystified from at least Endwalker and onward, at least for me.

I am sure this was already from Shadow Bangers onward. I am fairly sure that was when this started to change or later patches in Stormfront. I did not play stormfront at all though, skipped the expansion entirely like I did skip whatever has come after End Walken. But already in Shadow Bangers they reduced class jobs into a role specific quest line that was not very personal to anything. It also makes what I felt about tank and Healer jobs as long time forever scholar main, that healers and tanks have been made samey. The two roles have classes that have their buttons reduced down and the remaining ones are very interchangeable. Here is the basic single target 123 combo, here is the AOE one, here is something you do in between those ABC recitals, Here is something you pull or damage from range with. Or healers here is the one button you press until the finger bleeds if it is singular target, here is another button you do that with. Here is the DOT you refresh, just the one, god forbid we had a class that was about applying and refreshing tons of dots. Here is single target heal, here is AOE, here is panic button. Oh we had added an healer that was known for it's card'd luck buff system and being able to be both a shield or regen healer? Nah, we added new healer so someone needs their ankles cut.

For story, I also am in boat that XIV was not that special, and just surfed up and down with special story lines. Heavensward, Shadowbangers, was there even anything else? I have a lesser ability than most to get emotionally involved with stories, though Shadow Bangers was cool, great music, set pieces and everything.

 

[SageoThyme]

Uh current FFXIV player here, I don't mind some of the current outlook of 14 but yeah anxiety tells me I may get a bit of heat for that so...

 

[Sumea]

Uh current FFXIV player here, I don't mind some of the current outlook of 14 but yeah anxiety tells me I may get a bit of heat for that so...

Nah you can tell- I personally am interested what keeps people with the game and such personally. Is the fact that people known just the current type of game XIV is as wholesome.
Have you ever had a specific fight where you personally felt something was off when participating, like in crystal tower or such?

I myself have a weird on and off history with the game. I never loved it as deeply, I had my pile of grievances with the game and some players I met in game from the start. I mean I could steal a friend's credit card and go ask why are you here just to suffer from Limsa Lominsa chat but I think people love the suffer is a given, and XIV's regressions are marks of wider dismay in genre of MMO and Online RPG's in general. It is not like WoW is competing with a 2006 version of itself and at this point I would likely throw in a month or two sub to play XIV Classic. 1.0. Yoshi P deserves that nightmare I want to try it again for the f of it.

But more seriously, ARR Classic with today's net code and server capability would make me play the game again, and could be great for curious modern players to get some perspective. New fans could much easier tell what things in old XIV deserve to come back and which things can be left in past.

 

[Tonberry]

Uh current FFXIV player here, I don't mind some of the current outlook of 14 but yeah anxiety tells me I may get a bit of heat for that so...

Of course you won’t get heat for that. It’s a super popular game, of course people are gonna enjoy it!
I do still, I’m just on a break and admittedly maybe don’t like it as much as I once did.

I am sure this was already from Shadow Bangers onward. I am fairly sure that was when this started to change or later patches in Stormfront. I did not play stormfront at all though, skipped the expansion entirely like I did skip whatever has come after End Walken. But already in Shadow Bangers they reduced class jobs into a role specific quest line that was not very personal to anything. It also makes what I felt about tank and Healer jobs as long time forever scholar main, that healers and tanks have been made samey. The two roles have classes that have their buttons reduced down and the remaining ones are very interchangeable. Here is the basic single target 123 combo, here is the AOE one, here is something you do in between those ABC recitals, Here is something you pull or damage from range with. Or healers here is the one button you press until the finger bleeds if it is singular target, here is another button you do that with. Here is the DOT you refresh, just the one, god forbid we had a class that was about applying and refreshing tons of dots. Here is single target heal, here is AOE, here is panic button. Oh we had added an healer that was known for it's card'd luck buff system and being able to be both a shield or regen healer? Nah, we added new healer so someone needs their ankles cut.

For story, I also am in boat that XIV was not that special, and just surfed up and down with special story lines. Heavensward, Shadowbangers, was there even anything else? I have a lesser ability than most to get emotionally involved with stories, though Shadow Bangers was cool, great music, set pieces and everything.
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I never cared for the story incredibly much as well, but I liked the meticulous worldbuilding. It made it feel realized and immersive.
From Shadowbringers onwards they dropped the more politically driven diplomatic story in favor of a safer typical adventure and I more just meant that I preferred the older formula. It felt a lot like Star Trek TNG to me in that way.

 

[SageoThyme]

Nah you can tell- I personally am interested what keeps people with the game and such personally. Is the fact that people known just the current type of game XIV is as wholesome.
Have you ever had a specific fight where you personally felt something was off when participating, like in crystal tower or such?

I myself have a weird on and off history with the game. I never loved it as deeply, I had my pile of grievances with the game and some players I met in game from the start. I mean I could steal a friend's credit card and go ask why are you here just to suffer from Limsa Lominsa chat but I think people love the suffer is a given, and XIV's regressions are marks of wider dismay in genre of MMO and Online RPG's in general. It is not like WoW is competing with a 2006 version of itself and at this point I would likely throw in a month or two sub to play XIV Classic. 1.0. Yoshi P deserves that nightmare I want to try it again for the f of it.
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But more seriously, ARR Classic with today's net code and server capability would make me play the game again, and could be great for curious modern players to get some perspective. New fans could much easier tell what things in old XIV deserve to come back and which things can be left in past.

Nah I'm just a little skittish, cause one of my offline friends said stuff about how the "hardcore" were leaving and going to WoW in droves. So he said roughly that means that ffxiv sucks or something cause the "hardcore" keep a game up (in his opinion and yes he does tend to be gatekeepy).

 

[Sumea]

Nah I'm just a little skittish, cause one of my offline friends said stuff about how the "hardcore" were leaving and going to WoW in droves. So he said roughly that means that ffxiv sucks or something cause the "hardcore" keep a game up (in his opinion and yes he does tend to be gatekeepy).

Well, it is clear WoW had it's enshittification period, XIV was just following the example it was already following with when ARR was made. It is not that hardcore keep the game up, it is clearly the casuals that can be seen in XIV's numbers, it just keeps growing and cutting off anything complex off the game.
But hardcore do keep the game as an interesting game. Since I did not have any permanent circle in game I was attached to, or the world to be attached that heavily to, and gameplay stuff I was attached to were essentially removed, I do not have anything attached to but if I was attached to the numerous social-casual aspects of the game, I would likely be attached to it. I just think XIV should have found a better balance between the two, personally. I can say that yes, especially in form of private servers, Classic WoW is most interesting, full fledged MMO I could think as interesting to me. It tends to feel like a world as you interact with the game through the world. Bumping into people while doing something in the world is weird when it is such an "old" concept now. Honestly, I fell deeper in love with online RPG types of games, especially PSO2 between 2012 - 2016 which is why I also remember XIV's years. 1.0 2010, PSO2 2012, ARR actually year later, 2013. I also like warframe though that is a game that is like eating a full bag of chips at one sitting, at one point you eaten the whole bag and you do not feel like getting another bag for a semi-long while.

But yeah, TL;DR being, I kinda disagree, it is very well shown that casuals are keeping XIV alive and better alive than ever, but there is a rot that focus on that brings, the game should be engaging to play and mechanically rich instead of the inverse, and XIV has slowly and surely gone to a weird place in the sea. Not that there is currently really any good competition that would not be doing same stuff, MMO markets are not quite the same and F2P games have their incentives for shitting up the game for the sake of monetization. That is why sub MMO's like XIV and WoW should have better priority for player happiness but that is also against the majority of players, and majority in XIV are casual-social players so it is now a casual-social game, and I guess I was lucky that I got to experience a intermediate-social version of XIV.

 

[SageoThyme]

Yeah, I used to play WoW and tried to get back in a few years ago. It definitely didn't feel the same which is why I turned to other ways to get my WoW fix. Like I get it, there is a lot of content to get through if they didn't skip you forward but the world felt meaningless and basically it all could get retconned next expansion. Doesn't help that WoW also listened to the most shouty players for awhile (I remember Garrosh).

At least with 14, I haven't seen many retcons but yeah...I'm never gonna say its perfect. I do think some jobs would benefit from more class quests (I think Dark Knight is fine where it stopped). I think that dawntrail was always gonna be a hard follow-up since endwalker was the end of major buildups.

Though what makes something casual-social?

 

[Sumea]

Though what makes something casual-social?

General gameplay complexitiy being lowered drastically, that is why likely all of old 2.X-3.X content feels off, most boss mechanics ignored and the ones you cannot ignore come out of a brush to surprise you. General amount of systems to be played casually. Singleplayer options in my opinion feel weird for MMO, part of slight complexity in MMO is to deal with other people and that is now optional with Trust system, which was implemented in borderline destructive manner in FF XI and then copied to XIV. Like said, I played 2.X and 3.X version of the game, while having it's down sides the gameplay complexity and certain freedoms were very fun, and unexpected ways stuff would work, like 3xWHM + Tank being AOE DPS farming setup, and that required pre building the party socially and so on. It used to be that every dungeon boss had mechanics and those were to not be ignored, usually taught by someone who knows the dungeon to others who are first time, from 2.X up to max level, and a lot of mechanics were harder than any dungeon boss released in 5.X and onward. Old crystal tower and likely HW 24 mans were best ones in the game. After they got neutered they feel most off to play, stuff like that.

Right now, in my eyes, the aspects that are not diminished, made better even is social stuff. Hang-out spots in cities, people chatting away since XIV does not have WOW community, housing systems and people wanting to promote in-game cosplay, parties, glamming whatever like that. XIV is very social and that I liked always about it, even if I also hated it at times. Not every person online is fun to deal with. That is why I know XIV has a strong foothold, especially to those who were likely saved in some sense socially during 202X years through that game, even I got a partial fix with a group I already mostly forgotten about.

But yeah, there is definitely online games that are not social or even almost anti-social. You can find likely a community run Team Fortress 2 server where you can shoot the shit with bros while you shoot the shit out of your enemy team (also your new bros), while you play anything like League of Legends, Marvel Rivals and whatnot where any attempt at social intercourse is seen as a reason to report you and throw you to fishes. Even if not, you are not likely meeting the same people again unless on that 5 minute span of one game played you decide to become bros somehow. WoW also, what I played of the modern versions and this was... When Mists of Pandaria was current expansion, had gone the way to antisocial. People liked to treat each other as bots way more than in something like XIV where it is easier to shoot some lip during a dungeon. While I may hate the heck out of casualization of the game Final Fantasy XIV I cannot but be glad it exists as an honestly social game in landscape where social aspect is to be stamped out and limited so people cannot say anything bad to each other, so now they say something bad to their team mates and most games become festering in-fighting and blaming. Online gaming is very anti-social and it is bit hard to say is it the games placing limitations or just what gamers being worse today than decade or two ago. Truly a landscape where you have to marvel at stuff like Sea of Thieves or Final Fantasy XIV existing.

 

[SageoThyme]

But yeah, there is definitely online games that are not social or even almost anti-social. You can find likely a community run Team Fortress 2 server where you can shoot the shit with bros while you shoot the shit out of your enemy team (also your new bros), while you play anything like League of Legends, Marvel Rivals and whatnot where any attempt at social intercourse is seen as a reason to report you and throw you to fishes. Even if not, you are not likely meeting the same people again unless on that 5 minute span of one game played you decide to become bros somehow. WoW also, what I played of the modern versions and this was... When Mists of Pandaria was current expansion, had gone the way to antisocial. People liked to treat each other as bots way more than in something like XIV where it is easier to shoot some lip during a dungeon. While I may hate the heck out of casualization of the game Final Fantasy XIV I cannot but be glad it exists as an honestly social game in landscape where social aspect is to be stamped out and limited so people cannot say anything bad to each other, so now they say something bad to their team mates and most games become festering in-fighting and blaming. Online gaming is very anti-social and it is bit hard to say is it the games placing limitations or just what gamers being worse today than decade or two ago. Truly a landscape where you have to marvel at stuff like Sea of Thieves or Final Fantasy XIV existing.

Yeah I agree, seems that nowadays some folks lean to an idea of elitism or gatekeeping. Even my friend who rarely plays 14 was telling me that just because my reactions can be slow, I shouldn't do any raid content...like yeah maybe not top tier but its a known fact that people run WoW with addons to make fights easier.

 

[Sumea]

Yeah I agree, seems that nowadays some folks lean to an idea of elitism or gatekeeping. Even my friend who rarely plays 14 was telling me that just because my reactions can be slow, I shouldn't do any raid content...like yeah maybe not top tier but its a known fact that people run WoW with addons to make fights easier.

Reaction is not also that crucial if you learn the pattern. Raid content is not that hard just social and stuff. even tightest reaction time needed is much much more lenient than something a fighting game requires out of the player, 1/30th second reaction inputs etc.
The fun of Raid content in XIV and I last time did some with Shadow Bangers is learning the pattern, learning the slight randomness so you react to stuff, doing your best with your class during it. Depends on role and class used do you do additional stuff like tanks having swaps or off tanks etc. Still, reaction is bit odd since it can be compensated by knowing the fight, and execution of the fight is consistent dance.

 

[SageoThyme]

Reaction is not also that crucial if you learn the pattern. Raid content is not that hard just social and stuff. even tightest reaction time needed is much much more lenient than something a fighting game requires out of the player, 1/30th second reaction inputs etc.
The fun of Raid content in XIV and I last time did some with Shadow Bangers is learning the pattern, learning the slight randomness so you react to stuff, doing your best with your class during it. Depends on role and class used do you do additional stuff like tanks having swaps or off tanks etc. Still, reaction is bit odd since it can be compensated by knowing the fight, and execution of the fight is consistent dance.

Yeah, the only thing that would be reaction is that I get a small amount of latency for playing on EU instead of NA.

 

[jiyuuboyetsvi]

But more seriously, ARR Classic with today's net code and server capability would make me play the game again, and could be great for curious modern players to get some perspective. New fans could much easier tell what things in old XIV deserve to come back and which things can be left in past.

i miss HW...
if they came out with HW classic, damn id hop on that so fast.
any excuse to play my beloved HW Dragoon, just one more time.... :'(

Uh current FFXIV player here, I don't mind some of the current outlook of 14 but yeah anxiety tells me I may get a bit of heat for that so...

Also, as someone who played FFXIV for 9 years 2 months and 8 days straight; i loved this game to bits. it was there when i needed it to be for me, but now its more of a hindrance to my life.

that said, i DO love this game, and it will forever have the warmest place in my heart. i met most of the people who i still talk today from FFXIV.

I wouldnt have made this thread if I didn't love the game nodders