Fighting Game Thread

[here4outbreak]

PS: I am wondering: are 3D fighting game much more "grounded" since jumping isn't that useful?

honestly i think if its like vf or tekken 7 yeah that makes sense though im not sure whats going on in tekken 8 since i havent kept up since the s2 balance patch that "ruined" the game

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

honestly i think if its like VF or Tekken 7 yeah that makes sense though im not sure what's going on in Tekken 8 since i havent kept up since the s2 balance patch that "ruined" the game

I know that VF was much more realistic (which is why it's less flashy and more technical).

Honestly if the side stepping replaces jumping to avoid a hit that makes sense.

 

[PhaseJump]

Jumping isn't that useful in many 2D fighters, let alone 3D ones.

In 3D fighters like VF, side stepping brings in avoidance, but opens things up to side positioning & from behind positioning for different attacks. Pair that up with stance (whichever foot is facing forward), distance, high-mid/mid-low targeting, rock-paper-scissors mechanics on attack, guard, throw gameplay.

You get a ton of depth to help manage the constant math, gaining advantage in the 10-frame input buffer.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Jumping isn't that useful in many 2D fighters.

Then again it depends of the genre and gameplay mechanics. KoF has many different ways to jump (more than SF and others). I mean Anime fighters and Air Dashers also have an emphasis on jumping, same with MvC type of games with a lot of air movement. And Smash Bros (yes, this series is a fighting one) alongside other platform fighters are all about jumping.

More grounded games are obviously less reliant on jumping of course.

let alone 3D ones.

Maybe DBZ with the Budokai Tenkaichi series has a massive emphasis on jumping and flying but air control is hard to properly do for the genre.

In 3D fighters like VF, side stepping brings in avoidance, but opens things up to side positioning & from behind positioning for different attacks. Pair that up with stance (whichever foot is facing forward), distance, high-mid/mid-low targeting, rock-paper-scissors mechanics on attack, guard, throw gameplay.

You get a ton of depth to help manage the constant math, gaining advantage in the 10-frame input buffer.

Now that's getting technical but I feel like a fighting game shouldn't just be a game of rock paper scissors or else it'd become a bit too basic.

Thankfully there are many more mechanics to be added and even a special gimmick for a character as well as an interesting lore to follow for those who wants and to bring variety and uniqueness to a series.

 

[DjQuick2008]

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

View attachment 128674

Capcom has so many classic IPs just languishing in obscurity, bring them back dammit!

 

[here4outbreak]

Capcom has so many classic IPs just languishing in obscurity, bring them back dammit!

i mean the second one was in the fighting collection so its at least acknowledged but then again morrigan is in everything capcom makes and we wont get another darkstalkers

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

Capcom has so many classic IPs just languishing in obscurity, bring them back dammit!

Seems like they don't bring easy money like RE, MH or SF...

 

[DjQuick2008]

Played for the first time tonight needs ported to the switch

 

[X y b e r - S k u ll]

View attachment 129037

Played for the first time tonight needs ported to the switch

Banger game. Unfortunately we're never gonna see it get re-released because Tatsunoko's characters and the rights to their franchises in the west are split up amongst so many different companies, it would be a licensing nightmare for Capcom to get it back.

 

[DjQuick2008]

Banger game. Unfortunately we're never gonna see it get re-released because Tatsunoko's characters and the rights to their franchises in the west are split up amongst so many different companies, it would be a licensing nightmare for Capcom to get it back.

I understand same way id love some WWE games to come back but licensing would be nuts.

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

View attachment 129037

Played for the first time tonight needs ported to the switch

Switch, PC, Xbox, PS, everything in fact. Even a sequel could be nice.

 

[MasterEn]

this is a thing that exists, for some reason.

 

[FlowersSunRain]

I've always sucked at fighting games, but generally speaking I've been playing Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code for a longggg time.

When I say a long time, I don't mean I've put a lot of hours into it, although I've put in a few, I just mean in terms of fighting games it's the one I revisit most often. I mainly play C-Ciel, as I like how much she can jump around the stage, and especially that leaping throw she can do, that shit's fun.
I have recently picked up BlazBlue Centralfiction too, and Kagura has been great on that.

 

[petran79]

Yeah, labbing in Training mode is mostly for drilling your BnB's into muscle memory, and maybe helping to get an initial feel for your character and gameplay mechanics. You won't actually learn much beyond that without practical, hands-on matches. I'd argue that leaning too much into lab time can actually reinforce bad habits, as it can lead newer players to neglecting fundamentals and neutral in favor of (often predictably and recklessly) fishing for combos.

Another issue is that if you play online, the harder combos will usually not work because of the lag or dropped frames and inputs. Pros even adjust to the lag and change the combo's timings.
You have to do same combo twice for offline and online, which is too much for most newcomers

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

I've always sucked at fighting games, but generally speaking I've been playing Melty Blood: Actress Again Current Code for a longggg time.View attachment 129095
When I say a long time, I don't mean I've put a lot of hours into it, although I've put in a few, I just mean in terms of fighting games it's the one I revisit most often. I mainly play C-Ciel, as I like how much she can jump around the stage, and especially that leaping throw she can do, that shit's fun.
I have recently picked up BlazBlue Centralfiction too, and Kagura has been great on that.

I wish there were some indie fighting game taking cues from old school anime fighters.

 

[here4outbreak]

Another issue is that if you play online, the harder combos will usually not work because of the lag or dropped frames and inputs. Pros even adjust to the lag and change the combo's timings.
You have to do same combo twice for offline and online, which is too much for most newcomers

i would say this mostly applies to older games since for the most part you can play like sf6 or t8 online thanks to rollback (although yes there are differences between ports like pc generally having a lower input delay than say ps5)

 

[Guinea]

My top favorite fighting series:
Marvel vs Capcom (1 and 2 are the best)
Soul Calibur (3 and 6 are my faves)
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi (especially 2 but 3 is good)
Smash (all of them)

 

[petran79]

i would say this mostly applies to older games since for the most part you can play like sf6 or t8 online thanks to rollback (although yes there are differences between ports like pc generally having a lower input delay than say ps5)

this article explains the problem with rollback

https://antsstyle.medium.com/netcode-in-games-an-explanation-and-why-rollback-is-overrated-b76ee54ac2bb#afc3

"Rollback is completely unpredictable for the player (you have no idea when or where the rollback will occur, and as such if an opponent’s move suddenly jumps forwards three frames, you will be completely unprepared for it). In addition, players often recognise an enemy move by the ‘signature’ startup frames associated with that move — and in some rollback scenarios, this can cause a player not to recognise an attack they would otherwise recognise and realise it too late.

Due to the fairness issues with rollback as described above, I think it is important that competitive tournaments have rules around rollback settings (and that games allow for players, or spectators, to see the settings of each player).

While it’s almost impossible to detect a player who has caused their connection to be bad on purpose for a particular match, in order to throw off their opponent (which you could e.g. do when facing a strong opponent in brackets), ensuring players aren’t unduly fiddling with their input delay settings between matches can help to ensure that a player isn’t exploiting the rollback system to get any advantage

 

[RanmyakuIchi's icon RanmyakuIchi RanmyakuIchi]

My top favorite fighting series:
Marvel vs Capcom (1 and 2 are the best)
Soul Calibur (3 and 6 are my faves)
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi (especially 2 but 3 is good)
Smash (all of them)

Marvel 1 and Soul Caliber 3, that's some good taste!

 

[here4outbreak]

this article explains the problem with rollback

https://antsstyle.medium.com/netcode-in-games-an-explanation-and-why-rollback-is-overrated-b76ee54ac2bb#afc3

"Rollback is completely unpredictable for the player (you have no idea when or where the rollback will occur, and as such if an opponent’s move suddenly jumps forwards three frames, you will be completely unprepared for it). In addition, players often recognise an enemy move by the ‘signature’ startup frames associated with that move — and in some rollback scenarios, this can cause a player not to recognise an attack they would otherwise recognise and realise it too late.

Due to the fairness issues with rollback as described above, I think it is important that competitive tournaments have rules around rollback settings (and that games allow for players, or spectators, to see the settings of each player).

While it’s almost impossible to detect a player who has caused their connection to be bad on purpose for a particular match, in order to throw off their opponent (which you could e.g. do when facing a strong opponent in brackets), ensuring players aren’t unduly fiddling with their input delay settings between matches can help to ensure that a player isn’t exploiting the rollback system to get any advantage

technically this is true but the only time ive seen something like this where it mattered and was also one sided was that sfv clip with cody doing air ex knee
the clip in question

whats important to note about the article though is that by its own admittance its working entirely through "this COULD be done to cheat" and not based in anything really concrete like tournament results or even anecdotal evidence (yes it mentions the jago overhead but the author didnt even bother to check the frame data which would take like 5 seconds)

rollback isnt perfect (desyncs are worse in this system) but now that most devs have created their own (mostly) stable version and ggpo is open source the question of this or delay is one that doesnt get considered with good reason

 

[petran79]

technically this is true but the only time ive seen something like this where it mattered and was also one sided was that sfv clip with cody doing air ex knee
the clip in question

whats important to note about the article though is that by its own admittance its working entirely through "this COULD be done to cheat" and not based in anything really concrete like tournament results or even anecdotal evidence (yes it mentions the jago overhead but the author didnt even bother to check the frame data which would take like 5 seconds)

rollback isnt perfect (desyncs are worse in this system) but now that most devs have created their own (mostly) stable version and ggpo is open source the question of this or delay is one that doesnt get considered with good reason

on PC it is rather worse and they opened a new can of worms, especially with crossplay active as not all machines are the same and in case the machine meets the minimum or lower requirements, especially in gpu intensive games where frames deep below 60fps , it can cause even more desyncs. As a result you had the paradox that in SFV the native console lag became the preferred tournament standard, as opposed to the PC version with lower lag if you disabled vsync, something that would cause desyncs online.

 

[here4outbreak]

on PC it is rather worse and they opened a new can of worms, especially with crossplay active as not all machines are the same and in case the machine meets the minimum or lower requirements, especially in gpu intensive games where frames deep below 60fps , it can cause even more desyncs. As a result you had the paradox that in SFV the native console lag became the preferred tournament standard, as opposed to the PC version with lower lag if you disabled vsync, something that would cause desyncs online.

i dunno if id say thats on rollback specifically since shoddy pc ports or going up against a gaming laptop is more of a hardware/the game itself issue rather than networking

i havent really kept up with the newer stuff like sf6 or tekken performance wise (i just watch sf casually rn) so i havent really had to deal with crossplay fuckery which means i could be just talking out of my ass for this

 

[Ikagura Ikagura]

whats important to note about the article though is that by its own admittance its working entirely through "this COULD be done to cheat" and not based in anything really concrete like tournament results or even anecdotal evidence (yes it mentions the jago overhead but the author didnt even bother to check the frame data which would take like 5 seconds)

While we need more cheat-proofing I don't like when people assume everyone is a potential cheater.

Or else let's no longer to Olympic games solely because of any undetectable form of cheating.

 

[petran79]

While we need more cheat-proofing I don't like when people assume everyone is a potential cheater.

Or else let's no longer to Olympic games solely because of any undetectable form of cheating.

I remember on Shoryuken, a top Sagat ranked player was notorious for using lag switches, as it was evident from the replays. He was ass in real tourneys as a result.
Anti-cheat tools are useless in that case and those switches are used in other online genres too