As a kid I legitimately thought that Goku as a kid was a prequel manga/series made after Z (like Young GTO hahaha!).
Of course, I understand why Z is the more popular part, like Stardust Crusader for JoJo or Duel Monsters for Yu-Gi-Oh!
I do like Z (especially the Cyborg/Cell saga) but I'm bored of power creeping and just seeing "who makes the biggest Kameha".
I think it's natural that a series becomes slowly more serious (even Piccolo Daimao was somewhat darker than the rest of the Classic DB manga, Red Ribbon saga included).
PS: Wasn't there a movie of the first part called something like Mystical Journey? I feel that it would be a nice retronym for the classic series.
I think i know what that movie is and i'm pretty sure it's just a retelling of the Tao Pai Pai arc or a filler movie, i don't think it's a full recap of the series like the Gundam 0079 movies are.
It's a real shame more people won't give the original run of Dragon Ball a chance, personally i like it way more than i do the "Z" part of the Manga/Anime (i still love Z a lot though don't get me wrong).
I also always loved the little songs that the Anime added to the fights in the Tenkaichi Budokai, they even gave Yamucha his own theme.
Honestly I prefer DB over DBZ. I liked the adventure, mystery and romantic aspect of it over power levels and the repetitive alien/android trying to take over the world trope.
As a kid I legitimately thought that Goku as a kid was a prequel manga/series made after Z (like Young GTO hahaha!).
Of course, I understand why Z is the more popular part, like Stardust Crusader for JoJo or Duel Monsters for Yu-Gi-Oh!
I do like Z (especially the Cyborg/Cell saga) but I'm bored of power creeping and just seeing "who makes the biggest Kameha".
I think it's natural that a series becomes slowly more serious (even Piccolo Daimao was somewhat darker than the rest of the Classic DB manga, Red Ribbon saga included).
PS: Wasn't there a movie of the first part called something like Mystical Journey? I feel that it would be a nice retronym for the classic series.
I remember as a kid I watched an episode of GT and thought it was like the first season of DBZ. I didn't know there were separate series I thought they were the same show.
Love how I just stumbled upon this and learn a lot about Toriyama. I just finished watching Daima yesterday and I thought the series really captured the feel of the OG Dragonball with a splash of Z and GT towards the end. I really loved it.
Man, Daima was cool but, i would have been SO much better if it was 50 episodes. It needed more time, Glorio and Panzy were forgotten pretty fast. I wish they had gotten more screentime, i remember reading the leaks months before the announcement, i was hyped to see Goku meet new characters and go on adventures with them. Too bad it didn't last long...
I grew up with Dragon Ball and DBZ, and afterward with GT (I liked it in middle school, but then I started to disliked it). I tried to watch Super but it sucks so bad, story, animations, drawings. It made my eyes hurt. I'm not interested in Daima, I don't even understand why it exists.
Don't you bad mouth GT. It had a lot of great ideas and interesting character designs and villains, like Baby, Super 17 and Omega. Plus it gave us Super Saiyan 4. Unlike Z it also wasn't riddled with filler and watching Son-Goku charge a kamehameha for 3 straight episodes. I know that was because the anime was faster to make and they didn't want to catch up to the manga, whereas GT was an original anime, but like it or not that in turn made it more watchable as shit actually happened.
Sure DB Kai tried to do the same thing by shaving off all the fat, but IT's mistake was to replace half the original English cast, like my darling Stephanie Nadolny who was the legendary voice of Kid Goku/Gohan.
Also, going by Super as an example, GT, which turned Goku back into a kid (way before Daima ripped that idea off) ironically gave us the most mature Goku we'd ever had.
Personally I like GT best out of all the DB series, and I'll die on that hill.
GT is bad, original DB and DBZ is good - this used to be the common opinion held by the fanbase even when i got into DB in late 2000s / early 2010s. in fact, i do not remember if you could even say a good thing about GT without getting attacked for it online. maybe the franchise was running out of steam, but GT had a story that related to the Dragon Balls. in DBZ they were scarcely important other than as a means to move the plot and to resurrect dead characters.
there is a tone shift from dragon ball with its roots planted in gags and light-hearted adventure to dragon ball z, which put emphasis on character drama. candid as it was, the original anime did not have to dwell upon the misuse of the balls. after all, dragon ball was originally what they call now a "gag manga" (redundantly, since manga is for gags, but nobody uses gekiga anymore to describe serious manga). even terrorist organisations and monsters are generally presented comically.
in DBZ it is different, the situations are more dire, brutal. the atmosphere of the show is more serious, yet this is not reflected in the way characters used the titular objects. they are just as over-relied on without any consequence until GT. GT also resurfaces the old war between the Saiyans and the Tuffles with Baby, a pretty unique character for dragon ball, honestly. also, GT re-introduced Gogeta, a very cool fusion character, who was originally only in the DBZ movies.
It is still unpopular to like GT, but I am used to my favorite things being unpopular and me being a minority.
Also the dragonballs in Z (and as early as DB) being solely a namesake and just being used to revive dead characters as the villains got stronger and stronger, got really old really fast. It removes all tension and feel of stakes. In most other shows, being dead means you are dead. Like, I didn't feel anything when Jiraya died in Naruto, but a lot of people mourned that character and his death was a big loss for Naruto himself because he had lost his mentor and was now on his own (until he realized he really wasn't). Now imagine how impactful this would've all been if they'd just gone "No biggie! Let's gather the dragonballs!"
In the original show, sure they had the radar to make things easier, but apart from that they were on foot and spent months collecting the balls. It was harder to make a wish back then. In Z everyone can fly faster than sound, making collecting the balls within an hour a sinch, so even the mystique and hard work of getting the balls and the satisfaction thereof to earn the right to have your wish granted, is gone.
And sure, the balls used to have a limit to how many times you could be revived, how long after your death you could be revived, and how many could be revived at a time, but as the series moved on more and more of these restrains were removed as the balls got upgraded.
Point being, it's a bad idea to introduce such an overpowered mcguffin in your story that can effective remove all matter of stake and revert all damages after a big battle. To use Naruto as an example again (as that was at time DBZ's closest comparisson) when Pain destroyed half of Hidden Leaf, they had to deal with all that damage afterwards. Sure, Naruto beat Pain and everyone celebrated, but there was still a city to rebuild, they couldn't just call upon a dragon and have everything "wished back to how it was before".
Sure in that battle Nagato took the liberty of using the rest of his power to revive those he'd killed, but he was the only one in the whole series with that power, and it was only used that once.
Super Heroes also pissed me off at that. Because Piccolo summons Shenron to get a power boost, and Dende then says "You know you could just wish this new threat away, right?" but Piccolo refuses to because wishing instead of fighting went against his pride. So he actively chose the route with more potential casualties just because he was too prideful to be smart. Not only that, but this again proves the problem of having a magic dragon that can effectively remove all your problems for you.
...Piccolo only needed that one power-up wish though, and so instead of bidding Shenron farewell, meaning it would take less than a year for the balls to be restored again, he gave the remaining wishes to Bulma who f***ing wished for cosmetic upgrades. That's when I completely lost it. We have gone from reviving the dead and entire planets... to a woman asking for a bigger butt. I have... no words...
I'm actually kind of happy to see GT apologists online, because it feels like that would've been unthinkable even like 10 years ago!
I love Super Saiyan 4 too! It's one of the coolest designs DB ever got.
In general though I'm not a huge fan of any DB anime except for a few particular episodes I really love individually, a handful of movies, and Daima which I really like (but haven't finished yet). I've always been a manga andy when it comes to Dragonball.
I'm actually kind of happy to see GT apologists online, because it feels like that would've been unthinkable even like 10 years ago!
I love Super Saiyan 4 too! It's one of the coolest designs DB ever got.
In general though I'm not a huge fan of any DB anime except for a few particular episodes I really love individually, a handful of movies, and Daima which I really like (but haven't finished yet). I've always been a manga andy when it comes to Dragonball.
Well I was also a GT apologist 10 years ago. I have always liked it. Back then, when I was a teenager, it was mostly because GT never aired in Denmark. I learned about it via the internet as "this mysteries sequel to DBZ" which gave it a certain allure. Plus, it was alot different from DragonBall Z, and I have always had a thing for spin-offs that dare stick out and be different from the source material, while still keeping enough of its spirit to make it identifiable.
These days though, I am nowhere near the DB fan I used to be, because while nostalgia is certainly a factor, many later anime spoiled me with actual good stories. Like, where DragonBall just had villains that were evil for the sake of it, shows like Naruto had actual character development for BOTH the heroes and villains, and that blew my mind as a kid, because I wasn't used to villains who could have relatable motivations and be developed.
In fact, to answer the thread with my own controversial take; while I loved DragonBall Z as a kid for its easy to understand/digest good vs evil plot and cool transformations... if I had the time I would redo the whole series and add actual character backstories and development.
Well I was also a GT apologist 10 years ago. I have always liked it. Back then, when I was a teenager, it was mostly because GT never aired in Denmark. I learned about it via the internet as "this mysteries sequel to DBZ" which gave it a certain allure. Plus, it was alot different from DragonBall Z, and I have always had a thing for spin-offs that dare stick out and be different from the source material, while still keeping enough of its spirit to make it identifiable.
These days though, I am nowhere near the DB fan I used to be, because while nostalgia is certainly a factor, many later anime spoiled me with actual good stories. Like, where DragonBall just had villains that were evil for the sake of it, shows like Naruto had actual character development for BOTH the heroes and villains, and that blew my mind as a kid, because I wasn't used to villains who could have relatable motivations and be developed.
In fact, to answer the thread with my own controversial take; while I loved DragonBall Z as a kid for its easy to understand/digest good vs evil plot and cool transformations... if I had the time I would redo the whole series and add actual character backstories and development.
Fair enough!
I love the "simplicity" and honesty Dragonball has, but I totally understand how one would want more "nuance".
I didn't try watching Naruto until I was like 20 at the behest of a friend who badgered me our entire childhood, and I was really surprised at how serious and "layered" it felt for a show aimed at younger people. What I watched was pretty cool, but I've never finished it as I sort of lost interest a short bit into Shippuden.
I do remember Rock Lee being my favorite character, and he's like the simplest of the bunch.
Fair enough!
I love the "simplicity" and honesty Dragonball has, but I totally understand how one would want more.
I didn't try watching Naruto until I was like 20 at the behest of a friend who badgered me our entire childhood, and I was really surprised at how serious and "layered" it felt for a show aimed at younger people. What I watched was pretty cool, but I've never finished it as I sort of lost interest a short bit into Shippuden.
I do remember Rock Lee being my favorite character, and he's like the simplest of the bunch.
And that simplicity is perhaps why it is a good starting point for young people to get into manga. But as I got older, like you put it, I wanted more. I wanted deeper characters and more complex stories.
I would be lying though if I said I gave up on DragonBall willingly. In fact when my girlfriend at 14 introduced me to Naruto, I was super stubborn and hated the fact that DB was - from my persepctive - falling in popularity because of this new kid in town. But being an edgy teenager she convinced me when she told me there was a character (Gaara) who literally crushed people to death with sand. I then tried it and was hooked
I liked it when the emphasis was put in the three pillars of comedy, adventure and martial arts.
In the case of Z the things that I enjoyed the most where some of the filler like the car episode and the "Great saiyaman saga".
I'm also a GT aficionado as it retains some of the humor and sense of adventure, that was mostly lost in the Z part.
In the end I would say that i much prefer to see or read Dr. Slump to most of Z.
I liked it when the emphasis was put in the three pillars of comedy, adventure and martial arts.
In the case of Z the things that I enjoyed the most where some of the filler like the car episode and the "Great saiyaman saga".
I'm also a GT aficionado as it retains some of the humor and sense of adventure, that was mostly lost in the Z part.
In the end I would say that i much prefer to see or read Dr. Slump to most of Z.
Yeah, the first DB is really underrated. Z is really cool but I feel like I'm the only one in the entire world who liked the first DB more than Z when I was 12, lol.
Seeing Kai before anything else meant that I had to fill in the gaps as to why the Z fighters were fighting against Nappa and Vegeta together. It was initially the action and art design that I was attracted to in my early years. Of course, I still maintain that love, but as I watched the original series I learned to appreciate much more that Dragonball has to offer.
The story might not be as complicated as something like Naruto, however the sincerity of Toriyama's writing pulls me towards characters like Gohan, for his love of the world and the people living in it. He maintains that love throughout his adulthood as well, and finds his own way to help people as the Great Saiyaman.
I love Dragonball's story not in spite of its simplicity, but rather because it is simple. The overall story of Dragonball to me resonates for so many people because it reaches almost all demographics in its themes of passing the torch, accepting who you are, and that there will always be someone stronger.
In regards to the anime adaptations, I don't refer to them very frequently anymore, though I do own them and rewatch them once in a while. Toriyama's art has a consistency to it in the manga that isn't always replicated in the anime, and the pacing of Z in particular can suffer at times through its filler scenes.
As a kid I wasn't really interested in anime or DBZ so one day I was waiting for Star Wars Clone Wars (the Tarkovsky one) to air and Dragon Ball GT came on before it. I remember actually liking GT and I thought that Pan and Goku were siblings. I guess I missed the part where she calls him Grandpa. It was interesting to see Goku and Pan fight together.
As a kid I wasn't really interested in anime or DBZ so one day I was waiting for Star Wars Clone Wars (the Tarkovsky one) to air and Dragon Ball GT came on before it. I remember actually liking GT and I thought that Pan and Goku were siblings. I guess I missed the part where she calls him Grandpa. It was interesting to see Goku and Pan fight together.
I liked the dynamic between Pan, Goku, and Trunks. What I also liked about GT was the redemption of Mr. Satan. I mean he technically already was at the end of Z, but since he was now part of the family thanks to Gohan and Videl, not to mention adoring his granddaughter, he was actually a likable character this time around.
I liked the dynamic between Pan, Goku, and Trunks. What I also liked about GT was the redemption of Mr. Satan. I mean he technically already was at the end of Z, but since he was now part of the family thanks to Gohan and Videl, not to mention adoring his granddaughter, he was actually a likable character this time around.
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