Doom 3 is more of a Quake sequel than a Doom one. If they just called it "QUAKE: RESURRECTION" or put an original IP on it (preferably a horror one), I think people would have really enjoyed it.
Bad franchise games that are good games actually
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how so
Yakuza Dead Souls gets too much shit for being the funniest fucking game ever
I would fault the control scheme for the shooting. It just felt awkward, which is odd since RGG made Binary Domain before which had decent shooting in it. Plus the lack of melee combat (which is a series staple) hurt it as well. Even with zombies, they could have mixed in more melee weapons like katanas or spears instead of just guns.
Spinoffs excluded, Doom 3 shares more with Quake 2 than it does with its own immediate predecessor (which was really just more of Doom 1 in the first place). It's a fully-polygonal game about navigating dark 3D spaces, you move and shoot way more slowly than Doom 1/2, and the monsters are much more similar to the "corrupted alien space marines" of Quake 2 than they are to the D&D-inspired cyber-demons of Doom. There's a greater emphasis on story, with defined cutscenes, instead of just running and gunning with occasional text interspersions, and the visual design looks much more like a sixth-gen update of Quake's hallways and spaceships than it does Doom's hellscape Martian overworlds.
I dunno. Preferably, it would have been its own thing, but I think it works better as an evolution of Quake than it does Doom. BUT WHAT DO I KNOW
This game is completely damned by its title, which activates a biological function in the brains of anyone who reads it causing them to repeat the phrase "A MARIO PARTY GAME... ON GBA!? THAT WOULD NEVER WORK!!!!" ad nauseum. What people truly do need to understand – and it needs to be told to them, because it isn't really documented anywhere and isn't obvious just by looking at the game – is that Mario Party Advance is a single-player adventure game, just one presented as a board game and featuring loads and loads of minigames. There's a whole story in there, with loads of hilarious writing and charming character moments, plus loads and loads of unlockable games and toys and modes to have fun with.
There are exactly ZERO other games like it (though there's a Bomberman Party game on PSP that comes close, and WTF: Work Time Fun is somewhat similar), and it really needs to be played to understand how fun and clever it is. MPA is a top 3 game for me, and was a really smart way of making a single-player "party game". We'll never see anything like it again, but as a unique little handheld title, it will always have my heart.
Terrible is a harsh way to put it, but I don't like Breath of the Wild in the context of the Zelda series.
I think the game is pretty good for an open world title (which is admittedly not a style of game I enjoy, usually) but the game substitutes more large dungeons for smaller shrines with basic puzzles. The open world seems to force the story to be very nonlinear, which I don't love either. I don't think I'll pick up the next 3D game if it's another open world title.
I give them credit for trying something different for the series, but I prefer the older gameplay design.
I think the game is pretty good for an open world title (which is admittedly not a style of game I enjoy, usually) but the game substitutes more large dungeons for smaller shrines with basic puzzles. The open world seems to force the story to be very nonlinear, which I don't love either. I don't think I'll pick up the next 3D game if it's another open world title.
I give them credit for trying something different for the series, but I prefer the older gameplay design.
Star-Fox Zero. Not a terrible game, but rehashing an N64 classic with awkward controls is what ruined it. If only it got a remastered port with fixed controls and no gimmicks.
I'm honestly really bothered by what Breath of the Wild did to Zelda as a whole.
There's the whole era from Ocarina of Time to Twilight Princess where even when it went into cartoony territory with Wind Waker and others, it still had a certain -vibe- to it. When Breath of the Wild (or really Skyward Sword) came out, the entire vibe of Zelda changed-- the aesthetic, the presentation, etc. It feels a lot softer and more Gen Z-ish to me if that makes any sense.
It's just annoying that when I say Zelda, it conjures one image in my head and a completely different image in everyone else's at this point. It's like when the Johnny Depp Wonka movie came out and suddenly I had to specify that I liked the original one every time I brought it up.
Bioshock Infinite. Great game with terrible narrative problems and next-to-no thematic connection to the previous entries. The ingredients are there—the amnesiac PC, the little sister, the Big Daddy equivalent, the social commentary—but the time travel storyline (including the writers' attempts to both fix it and connect it back to the original game), the weak "both sides are bad" argument, the gutting of Songbird's in-game presence and the ending were all hot messes.
I'd still recommend it, just not as a good Bioshock game.
I'd still recommend it, just not as a good Bioshock game.
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It’s so frustrating. There’s a good action game here! But it’s buried under some nasty decisions. Mostly it’s how the story is total bunk, with it even effecting the gameplay in some situations, but it’s also in things like the decision to make a 3D game that uses the D-pad for movement.
Other M, to call it a mistake would be to miss the point. It’s an example of a period of time for Nintendo where they had a massive new audience and were desperately trying to figure out what to do with them. Casual gamers were NEVER going to flock to Metroid, especially not when the series was bending over backwards to be made for them. And, with Other M being so far removed from other Metroid games in terms of design and appeal, the existing fans didn’t take to it either.
Not a horrible game, but rather an example of one that couldn’t find an audience.
This is an excellent point. I always mentally lumped in Other M with games like NSMB Wii or Donkey Kong Country Returns or Kirby's Return to Dreamland and probably a lot of other stuff coming out in the waning days of the Wii (2010/2011). They were all sort of "streamlined", "genericized" versions of their respective franchises – plastic-y, accessible, simple renditions of baseline series mechanics aimed at casuals who bought the console for Wii Sports. (There were other non-Nintendo games at that time that were geared a similar market, like Sonic 4.)
I guess the fandom for platformer series is much more forgiving of stuff like that than Metroid fans! I don't really think that design philosophy is bad at all – some of those games were very good! – but it is quite shallow, and I think it's the mentality that led a lot of longtime Nintendo fans away from the Wii U/several later 3DS games.
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Metroid fans are scary. They love their game, they love their EXACT game, and they will slap anything different out of your hands and call it trash.
I love Metroid. It’s one of my favorite franchises. But I know I’m in the minority when it comes say that I love a variety of the games in the series, because Metroid fans usually hyper obsess over one or two games and ignore the rest by calling them “not Metroid”.
Crash of the Titans is a mid beat'em up with the infamous ugly redesigns and barely any bosses, but it was MY mid beat'em up with ugly redesigns and barely bosses
Got it on PSP and rocked it and beieve i actually got to 100% it one time
Got it on PSP and rocked it and beieve i actually got to 100% it one time
It's good, but passing from frenetic action to horror was bound to repel clients, played the BFG edition and the main campaing is great, the extra campaigns sadly could be better, if you don't care for Doom 3 the BFG version bundled the original duology at least
DmC: Devil May Cry.
Is a bad DMC in some characters characterization, but is easily one of the best Ninja Theory games alongside Enslaved, the Limbo transitions are really cool and the combat is super fun. The only downside is that the best version is trapped forever in PS4/XBOX ONE.
Is a bad DMC in some characters characterization, but is easily one of the best Ninja Theory games alongside Enslaved, the Limbo transitions are really cool and the combat is super fun. The only downside is that the best version is trapped forever in PS4/XBOX ONE.
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team ninja worked on the game, so the gameplay had a good chance of being good overall.
the "problem" is, hilariously enough, that nothing went wrong during it's development. everything went exactly as it was supposed to.
Yousef we share the same neurons
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Sonic Rush Adventure. While very different from the original Rush, and I think FORCING replays of levels isn’t the right way to design this kind of game, I’ve fallen in love with this game over the years. On top of its commitment to its aesthetic and world being very admirable, it also sports better level designs than the original Rush. In original Rush, deep, bottomless pits were rampant in the stage design. It ended up making it feel like every level was this big, floating obstacle course in the sky. Rush Adventure tones this back HEAVILY, while also having much better playing level gimmicks, like the dolphins in Pirate’s Island, the sick snowboard of Blizzard Peaks, the 3D rail switching segment and bouncy mushrooms of Plant Kingdom, and so on.
I think it’s a game that is often sadly dismissed. Released at a time where Sonic’s reputation was at the lowest it had ever been, and being so bold in its portrayal of a world that it became off-putting to many. Also Marine. She’s a love it or hate it type character. I personally like the corny Australian dialogue and find her tale of coming of age to be rather effective! But she’s designed to be annoying at the start and for much of the game’s second act, so I totally get why people would find her irredeemable.
Also the transport minigames! Some are fun, some are not. It’s a tragedy that the actual pirate ship is not only very useless, but also has the worst minigame. That said, the jet ski is super dope! And the hovercraft is some fun! Also, the submarine can make me happy on a good day!
There’s a lot to discuss with Rush Adventure, more than I could do here. Just know, on real hardware, the game is a lovely time. You just need to Open Your Heart, and you’ll be alright. For A New Venture, that is.
Oh, and for the record, I’d call it a bad franchise game because of the FORCING of level replays (I can’t get over that) and other questionable bits of game design that can hamper the act of getting to the end of the game. If you just want to beat it, you’re kind of missing the point of the game, but guess what: most people just want to beat the damn game.
It’s understandable why it garnered the reputation it got, but it’s better than what people give it credit for. You just have to truly embrace it.
I think it’s a game that is often sadly dismissed. Released at a time where Sonic’s reputation was at the lowest it had ever been, and being so bold in its portrayal of a world that it became off-putting to many. Also Marine. She’s a love it or hate it type character. I personally like the corny Australian dialogue and find her tale of coming of age to be rather effective! But she’s designed to be annoying at the start and for much of the game’s second act, so I totally get why people would find her irredeemable.
Also the transport minigames! Some are fun, some are not. It’s a tragedy that the actual pirate ship is not only very useless, but also has the worst minigame. That said, the jet ski is super dope! And the hovercraft is some fun! Also, the submarine can make me happy on a good day!
There’s a lot to discuss with Rush Adventure, more than I could do here. Just know, on real hardware, the game is a lovely time. You just need to Open Your Heart, and you’ll be alright. For A New Venture, that is.
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Oh, and for the record, I’d call it a bad franchise game because of the FORCING of level replays (I can’t get over that) and other questionable bits of game design that can hamper the act of getting to the end of the game. If you just want to beat it, you’re kind of missing the point of the game, but guess what: most people just want to beat the damn game.
It’s understandable why it garnered the reputation it got, but it’s better than what people give it credit for. You just have to truly embrace it.
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I disagree hard with the person who began this thread (DmC sucks and is on par with Devil May Cry 2, even if the gameplay is better), but I agree with you. Max Payne 3 is the weakest of the lot thanks to the worst writing, story, characterisation and tone of the lot, but the gameplay is genuinely fantastic and going for an arcade tactics-meets-realistic shooter approach was the best move considering that Rockstar themselves knew they couldn't match Remedy's heroic bloodshed. Certainly better than the OTHER B-Team threequel to a bullet-time shooter that came out in the 2010s (F.3.A.R.)...
As for my bad franchise game that's a good game... Both of these:
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^
This.
RE5, as everyone says, is one of the best cooperative games ever made.
Goddamn it sucks as a traditional Resident Evil.
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At the VERY least, I have yet to see a bunch of BotW fans do the "old bad and dated, new good" schtick unlike the fucking Eldin Ring fanbase, so I'll give 'em that.
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How come? Because DmC: DMC at its core is a good game. Good gameplay, good designs, good bosses. Everything about it at it's core is a good game. I think people need to swallow their pride and realise that maybe they're just a bit too elitist sometimes. DMC2 is an abysmal game in gameplay, designs and story. Everything about that game is horrible, there is no redeeming qualities besides maybe the soundtrack.
But I do agree with your suggestions, it's been a very long time since I've played RE0, in fact it's the only game alongside Code Veronica I have never played more than one time in the RE series.
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Great way to put it, I'm honestly so happy that Metroid is still kicking after Other M. I'm a huge Metroid fan and Dread was such an awesome experience.
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I think the fact that I've never met a person that finished TOTK is proof enough for me that one game like that was enough. It's time to go back to form. I myself never finished TOTK either. The game is just not fun, the story doesn't exist, it's predictable, it's bad, the gameplay is fun but I can do the gameplay without the story so what's the point really? It was a huge miss and I hope we see a return to form with the next entry.
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Grandia xtreme, to a extent grandia 3 also get's this, but both of these games are very fun with their battle system, it's just that their stories suck (in xtreme's case) or aren't as good (in 3's case) as the first 2 games, which are works of art.
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