PPR #06 - Catherine: Full Body - This One Has a Femboy in it

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Kids’ Stuff​

ATLUS Co., Ltd. makes video games for teenagers. No, I don’t just mean that they make video games about them. Their target audience has almost always been teenagers, especially ones going through high school. They have games like Persona, which are practically all about high school teenagers doing high school things like forming gangs and going to war with gods. Other games like Shin Megami Tensei are meant for that rebellious, angsty kid who wants to play a video game that he knows his mom will hate, but he does it anyway as revenge for making him go to Sunday school growing up. They even have a remaster coming out soon for that guy at your high school who is concerningly very into WWII military aesthetics.

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The four pillars of the ATLUS fanbase: weeaboos, heathens, weeaboos, and weeaboos.

Of course, it is a little unfair to judge the company like this. Plenty of post-pubescent people enjoy their products and for good reasons. But ATLUS has never tried to make a game with this audience in mind until Catherine.

Catherine doesn’t follow a high schooler looking to rebel against authority or a Chosen One protagonist in a fantasy world. You play as Vincent Brooks, a software developer in an American city. He’s thirty-two, overworked, and the story’s central conflict comes down to whether he will get married soon or not. Oh, and he has to fight for his life every night in a Hell of his own creation and, by day, courts his overbearing girlfriend and succubus mistress. It may be more mature than the rest of ATLUS’ catalog, but it still has to be wild like the rest.

Of course, when I say ‘mature,’ I don’t just mean… …well, you can see the artwork in the article. I also mean that the game tries to tackle mature topics that aren’t commonly discussed in video games. Of course, whether they tackle the subjects with the grace they deserve is another issue.

Between Personas​

The game’s development started near the end of Persona 4’s. In case you didn’t know, Persona 4 was released in 2008 on the PS2, and the PS3 and Xbox 360 had already been released in 2006 and 2005, respectively. So ATLUS was already late to the HD generation. The game was developed by ATLUS’ in-house team, “2nd Creative Production Department,” the same team behind the Persona series. The game was developed by the same team because ATLUS knew that developing for the new console generation would be a pain. So Catherine was intended as both a stop-gap between Persona games and as a test for the developers and for what Persona 5 would be. The game featured almost the exact same team as the previous two Persona games.

Katsura Hashino had just finished directing Persona 4 when he decided to make a game completely outside of ALTUS’ norm. He wanted it to be American, mature, and risqué and felt that the game would have never received support from the company. According to Naoto Hiraoka, general manager of the Persona series and Catherine, the game was hell to develop because the team wasn’t used to the HD consoles and had never had to develop for multiple scopes before. It took longer than they were expecting, especially in the debugging phase.

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The game received a C rating from CERO in Japan after several reviews and discussions with the board. The ESRB was not nearly as kind. It received an M for Mature, but the game risked an AO for Adults Only due to its sexual nature.The US distribution was also a hassle. Both of the major big-box stores, Target and Walmart, refused to sell the game at first. They took the most offense with the PS3 version’s box art, depicting Vincent and dozens of sheep falling around Catherine with Vincent landing in her bosom. So the PR manager at ATLUS USA, Aram Jabarri, gave the most reasonable response, creating a sex tape. Gathering store executives for a meeting, he began showing explicit scenes from AAA games from around the time that were being sold by these retailers. These games included scenes of bathing, full-frontal nudity, and even sex scenes. After every scene, Jabarri would comment on how there was nothing as explicit as it in Catherine. This meeting somehow didn’t result in Jabarri being thrown out into the street, and instead, the retailers agreed to carry the game, with select stores opting for a censored cover.

The game was released in Japan on the PS3 and Xbox 360 with unique covers for each on February 17, 2011, Valentine’s Day. It would receive international releases slowly over the course of a year. The game’s latest release was on January 10, 2019, when it received a port to PC under the new title Catherine: Classic.

Catherine With a C​

The Golden Playhouse is the television anthology that frames Catherine’s story. The show is hosted by Trisha, the ‘Midnight Venus’ herself. She introduces the audience to Vincent’s sad, pitiful life and intermittently offers commentary.

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Vincent wakes up one morning to find a naked woman sleeping next to him. She isn’t his girlfriend, and he can barely remember what happened the night before. That doesn’t matter as Catherine tells him it was a night of passion and romance and now they’re lovers, whether Vincent wants to be or not. Obviously, this throws a spanner into his current relationship with Katherine McBride. Their ties were already beginning to loosen as Vincent had been losing interest in her. All their conversations have started to center around subjects like ‘marriage’ and ‘babies’ which Vincent isn’t sure he’s ready for. Before it gets confusing, Katherine and Catherine will only be referred to as K and C from here on.

So Vincent needs to balance two relationships at once. Not too hard, right? Well every night, Vincent is subjected to horrific nightmares of him and several other men being turned into sheep and being forced to climb towers of falling blocks to survive. At first, he doesn’t have memories of the nightmares. But Vincent slowly begins to remember what is happening to him at night. He begins to realize that not only are the other sheep actual men from Vincent’s life, but they die if they fall off the tower.

Wake Up, Sheeple!​

The gameplay is mainly composed of two sections: nights at the Stray Sheep bar and the nights of The Great Trials. Vincent spends time with his friends Orlando, Jonny, and Toby. Here, he can talk to them, drink, play an arcade game, and talk to other patrons or bar staff. The bar segments are largely superficial and exist for story purposes. Vincent can actually leave them early to get to the nightmares quickly. Characters come and go through the night, so Vincent needs to keep his priorities straight if he wants to talk to all of them.

Erica, the waitress, and Thomas’ The Boss’ Mutton, the barkeep, are the only characters guaranteed to stay at the bar and tend to give the best relationship advice. Some of the frequent patrons are actually sheep that Vincent will meet in the nightmares, so talking to them during the day and in the nightmares may help them survive.

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The Great Trials, The Woman’s Wrath, or simply the Nightmares are what Vincent experiences every night after he sleeps with C. Vincent must climb to the top of a tower composed of blocks. The tower is collapsing from the bottom, so there’s no time to lollygag. Blocks can be pushed and pulled to make pathways to the ceiling. Plenty of trick blocks make it harder to traverse, such as the ice blocks, which Vincent will slip on, or the immovable blocks.

After clearing a stage, you take a break on a landing where other sheep rest. Here is where Vincent can talk to the other sheep and learn some techniques and some lore about the game. Talking to the other sheep reveals that they have all committed infidelity, like himself. Interestingly, one sheep named Steve keeps contemplating when he’ll get to see ‘her’ again.

There are also enemies that will hinder the climb. Sometimes, it is other sheep that Vincent might need to push off the tower to survive. Other times, they come in the form of late-stage bosses. Every night, Vincent will fight against the monstrous apparition of something in his life. At one point, it is K in a bridal gown. Later, it is a fetus. Vincent himself even joins in as ‘Shadow of Vincent,’ a representation of his guilt.

At the end of each landing, Vincent must enter a confessional and answer a question from a voice. Answering is the only way to progress, and the questions are very loaded. Whatever his answer is, a mysterious meter will respond to it. It starts at the center of two angels, one blue and the other red. It is unclear what they mean at first. Vincent can also move the meter with conversations at the Stray Sheep and through text messages he sends to his girlfriends. Depending on what he says to them. They might send him a suggestive photo or two.

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The sexiness almost distracts you from how messed up K's toes are.

Katherine With a K​

Vincent begins being stalked by a guy claiming to be C’s boyfriend. Also, K calls Vincent with some news, she’s pregnant. This, the stalking, the double life, and the nightmares are really getting to our protagonist. So he breaks up with C at the Stray Sheep, to which she beats him up. Well, it could have gone worse, right?

K visits Vincent at his apartment, where C appears the next day. Of course, she tells K everything and then some about their relationship. She says that if K wasn’t in Vincent’s life, he would be far happier with herself. Determined to be the only one for him, C grabs a knife, and a struggle begins. In the end, C accidentally stabs herself. As K screams in horror, Vincent wakes up from this nightmare.

He is beyond horrified at the dream he just had and believes it was real. Realizing that her boyfriend is hiding something from her. K realizes Vincent’s cheating and breaks up with him. She reveals that she knew she wasn’t pregnant but said she was so that he wouldn’t leave her. To make matters worse, none of Vincent’s friends have any memory of C, and all her photos and texts have disappeared. In fact, Vincent realizes that no one ever saw C with him when she was alive. No one, except Boss. Confronting him, Vincent discovers the dark secret the bartender has been hiding from him.

The Duke of Hell Astaroth is angry at humanity. Specifically at the lowest of the low: cheaters. Men who aren’t willing to commit to a relationship so they sacrifice their love’s future for their own happiness. The nightmares are Astaroth’s Great Trials for them. The duke is also the voice asking the questions in the confessionals. It is Boss’, Dumuzid, job to manage the trials. Not only that, but C was a succubus, intentionally leading men astray so that they may become victims. In fact, Steve, the sheep from earlier, was another one of her victims who died during the climb. He was Vincent’s stalker. Vincent witnesses this confession with Erica, who had no idea her boss was like this. Soon after, all of Vincent’s friends and the sheep he saved on the tower come to support him. Giving his final goodbyes, Vincent goes to sleep.

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It is implied that C changes form to suit the victim. We get to see some of these forms in the novelization.

Waking up in the nightmare for the final time. Vincent climbs the tower to find Dumuzid waiting for him. If Vincent can beat him in a final bout, the Great Trials will end. If not, well the Boss will be eating mutton stew tonight. After reaching the top despite the demon’s magic, Vincent is asked some final questions in the confessional. Having proven himself to be ‘the man of legend,’ Astaroth asks him what he wants in a relationship.

Wedding Bells​

The game has eight endings, each one determined by where the mysterious meter is placed and what Vincent says in the final confessionals. Surprisingly, the meter does not determine which girl Vincent goes to but instead determines the quality of the ending.

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If Vincent answers that he wants order in his life, then he will get with K. The Bad Ending sees K not forgiving him for cheating, despite his argument that it doesn’t count since it was with a Sumerien demon. The Good ending shows K forgiving him after all his friends, and Boss, confess to what happened. Their life restarts with the couple being shown to be making wedding plans months later. The True Katherine Ending is unlocked with the highest order and shows their wedding going off without a hitch with implications that Orlando will try again with his ex wife and Erica and Toby being next to tie the knot.

C will come back to life for her endings. However, the bad one involves her going back to the Underworld without Vincent. He is left without love and grows manic at the thought of living without C. Eventually, he runs into the street in the way of an oncoming car. He survives, but his ego is undoubtedly hurt. The good ending involves Vincent leaning towards freedom. At this point, he will go to the Underworld with C, but Boss will constantly monitor their life. C doesn’t seem to mind though. The True Catherine Ending involves Vincent usurping C’s father, the king of the Underworld.

The final two endings are the best. If Vincent doesn’t want to return to either woman, he will return to the Stray Sheep and tell Boss to give him $50,000 as a loan and recompense for all the trouble he’s started. To which Vincent will spend the money wisely, betting it on a woman’s wrestling match. The Freedom Ending involves Vincent losing the bet, but it doesn’t matter because he’s happy with his freedom. Plus, it wasn’t his money on the line. He’ll get the True Freedom Ending if the meter is in the middle at which point he wins the bet. It is revealed afterwards that Vincent lived in a space colony and the prize money is his ticket to the stars.

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Law, Chaos, and Neutral. Just now instead of killing your friends, your getting married.

No matter what ending Vincent gets, Trisha will reappear to congratulate the player and fully unlock Babel, the challenge mode. By completing all stages, either in single-player or two-player, Trisha will reveal that her name is an anagram of Ishtar, the goddess of love and war, and Astaroth was only an avatar of herself. The game’s main goal was for her to find a new lover since her husband Dumuzid has been unfaithful. The player has proven a worthy suitor by playing through the game.

We Have to Talk About Erica​

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Of course, being a big boy game for big boys, the game tries to tackle touchy subjects. It’s not trying to do anything too controversial most of the time. Yes, lying about being pregnant to save a relationship is wrong, cheating is wrong, and maybe marriage is pointless. Real boundary-breaking stories are happening here. But the one theme this game is infamous for is Erica.

Erica is the lifelong friend of Vincent, Orlando, and Jonny. Toby is the youngest and newest member of the gang and has a thing for Erica but the others are apprehensive. No, it’s not because there is an age gap, but because the gang knows something about Erica’s past that Toby doesn’t. There is notably one point on the fourth night where Erica will tell Vincent that girls are always waiting for a man to sweep them away. Vincent remarks that he’d believe the advice if it was coming from a real woman.

Erica is transgender, it’s just never stated until the end. Considering the age in which the game was released, it was kind of progressive. Most of the characters treat Erica with respect, and her relationship with Toby has seen praise as Toby continues to date her despite learning her secret. In early depictions of LGBT people, they are usually shown as teenagers. So the game received praise for having an adult transwoman who is comfortable with her identity. She’s also very mature and independent, something Vincent sure isn’t.

At the same time, the game could have handled it a lot better. Vincent regularly insults Erica by referencing her transition. There’s more than just the response to ‘girls being swept away.’ He and the rest of the gang’s disapproval of Erica’s and Toby’s relationship because of gender and not age is also controversial. Erica also begins experiencing nightmares despite not cheating. It is implied that any man can have nightmares, which causes some controversy over whether the game considers Erica to be a man or not. But the real disputes come from the Japanese release. Erica is often stylized as ‘EricA’ and the character is credited as Eric Anderson in the staff role. The Versus Mode Art Book also writes her name as Eric and states that she’s a man. But at the same time, it writes Orlando as ‘Orland’ and Boss is stated to be a woman. So it could just be a case of terrible copyediting.

ATLUS Rerelease Girls​

A meme by a deleted reddit user on r/megaten
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Katsura Hashino and co. made Catherine, despite the problematic development, and earned praise and accolades. But of course, they had to move on to Persona 5, so the team couldn’t return to the concept for years. Hashino always worked in ATLUS, but in 2016, had gotten tired of working on only Persona. So to give himself some legroom and establish a third development branch of ATLUS, he created Studio Zero. They started quickly on the first project: Project Re Fantasy, announced in 2017. But that was taking forever, so to tide over fans, why not return to Catherine and make a rerelease?

The game was titled Catherine: Full Body in reference to the wine. The game’s advertisements featured a new love interest for Vincent with the tagline “The love triangle has become a square!” It first released on the PS4 and PSVita for Japan on February 14, 2019, again on Valentine’s Day. Later, it received character DLC for Babel. In 2020, the game was ported to the Nintendo Switch, where all of the DLC was included for free.

ATLUS is known for rereleasing their games and adding sprinkles of extra content to make the medicine go down. Persona 3 was rereleased a total of three times, and fans still argue about which version is best. Fans have noticed that many of these rereleases follow a simple formula: Add a storyline that sidelines the original plot, have a new girl central to this new story, ???, profit. It works every time. I know it worked on me, at least. I have two copies of Persona 5 and will probably buy another copy of Metaphor: ReFantazio when they add a gal to it too.

Of course, Full Body was not immune to this plague. Rin is the name of the new love interest and brings new lore and plot unrelated to any other stuff. Rin is just another rerelease girl.

ATLUS Rerelease… …Boy?​

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I lied. Rin isn’t even a girl. At first, when the audience is introduced to the character, everyone assumes that Rin is a woman due to his voice and cute attire. But Rin is a man who just chooses to live his life effeminately. To be more specific, Rin is an otokonoko. It’s a Japanese concept that doesn’t really exist in the West. The closest thing to this in the West would be femboys. Of course, the most common media you see people like this in Japan are in maid cafés and manga made for high school girls. So it was very unexpected for the game to have a character like this as most depictions are fetishistic. This was an attempt to make a somewhat respectful depiction of someone like Rin.

Qatherine With a… Well, You Get The Picture​

Vincent first meets Rin after he runs out of a dark alley to escape a stalker. Rin is suffering from amnesia and can’t remember anything beyond his name: Qatherine, or Rin for short. He gets a job as the Stray Sheep’s pianist until his memories return. The story plays out mostly the same except for a tiny addition. During the nightmares, Rin shows up playing the piano. Not only does the piano soothe the sheep, but it also slows the falling blocks, allowing for more escapees.

The game features remixed puzzles, though the player can select the originals when starting a new game. These include new types of blocks and enemies. Rin’s piano will activate whenever Vincent is in a bind. Astaroth also asks some new questions at the end of the night. While previous queries were about marriage, independence, and honesty. These new ones are about accepting your partner despite things like secrets, sexuality, or gender. If Vincent answers in the direction that he is open to new opportunities with his partner, the meter will crack instead of swinging in either direction. Eventually, it will crack, meaning the player is on the new story path of Full Body.

Rin begins to build a budding relationship with Vincent. At first, he is shy and struggles with the piano, but Vincent helps him come out of his shell. Midway through the game, Rin even confesses to loving him. However, Vincent isn’t sure if this is love or love-love. Either way, Rin admits that he struggled to come forward about this because he knew Vincent was in a relationship and didn’t know if he would accept him. Vincent says that he does, granted he isn’t aware of what Rin is talking about.

Vincent soon learns after he walks into Rin’s apartment and sees him naked. After the shock, Vincent hits Rin when he gets close to him. Expecting Vincent to accept him, Rin was walking towards him for a hug. Rejected, Rin runs away and later accepts Vincent’s apology over the phone. However, he says that he is no longer comfortable coming to the Stray Sheep.

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If Vincent is on the new story path, he will still break up with C after being overwhelmed by the stress. However, his nightmare is a little different from the previous one. You see, C and K both learned about how Vincent was not only cheating on both of them but that there was now a fourth wheel. So C bludgeons Rin with a knife while K attacks Vincent with an axe. Seeing as there is no way for this nightmare to end with his survival, Vincent is surprisingly saved by Rin, the real one, who enters the nightmare like he did on all the previous nights. He saves Vincent but at the cost of himself being trapped in the nightmare.

When confronting Boss on his role in the Great Trials, he reveals that he imprisoned Rin in the nightmares for interfering with his plans. So now Vincent needs to save the rest of the cheaters and Rin from Dumuzid. Succeeding, Vincent and friends relax at the Stray Sheep the following day, and Rin reveals something bizarre. He is an alien, his amnesia has cleared up, and his brother is coming to bring him home. Like I said, ‘add a storyline that sidelines the original plot.’ That stalker from the beginning was his brother, looking for his little bro. Now that he’s returned, he won’t leave without Rin, despite the pair wanting to live together. So, the final nightmare begins for Rin’s hand in marriage. During these levels, Vincent is asked questions by the aliens.

Wedding Bells in Space​

There are five extra endings, three for Rin and two for the others. Rin’s normal ending is achieved if Vincent goes through with the Rin storyline but doesn’t support him in the confessionals. Rin will leave the city and go on to become a popular intergalactic pianist. He hopes that Vincent will forgive him and maybe they will meet again one day.

The good ending shows Vincent and Rin getting together as Archangel explains how they originally wanted to destroy the world but don’t want to anymore and think Rin would be better off with Vincent. The final scene shows them in space for their wedding.

C and K get new endings if Vincent goes on the Rin route but doesn’t break the meter before the turning point. Vincent can send the girls a video of Rin playing the piano. Since piano music is supposed to bring the listener happiness and safety, the girls will get new endings to replace their bad endings after listening to the tune.

K’s ending must have been written by Zeb Wells because of how crappie it handled the pair. K still rejects Vincent but gets a coupon for a free makeover soon after. She gets it, becomes a supermodel, and is beloved by everyone. Including Vincent, of course. Do they get together? Of course not. K still hates him, and Vincent gets publicly rejected when K flies off in a helicopter piloted by her new boyfriend. In her ending, C realizes that a succubus and a human can never have a relationship. But Vincent still loves her. He just needs order in his life. So, she rejects her demonhood and rewrites history to make herself a friend of Vincent in high school. They then get married in the present and have a ton of children. Also, K marries a man named Paul in this new timeline, so maybe this one was written by Zeb Wells, too.

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Draw your ships like this.

Some Improvements​

Of course, with this release, ATLUS made notable changes in its depiction of LGBT characters. Vincent is basically confirmed to be bisexual and marries a man in one of the endings. Rin is a new addition who is treated respectfully, and his life is more than a joke made at the expense of otokonokos. They even rewrote some of Vincent’s insults towards Erica.

At the same time, Rin opened up a whole new can of worms. The way that Vincent assaults him after discovering the truth is obviously controversial, though the game makes it very clear that he was in the wrong for that move. But at the same time, the game and the advertisements had no shame in parading Rin’s gender around as marketing buzz. Then there’s the Alternative Catherine Ending. When she rewrote history and inserted herself into the characters’ lives, Erica had not transitioned before high school. Then, when their wedding is shown in the present, Erica is shown to be a man still. This opened up even more questions and was seen as offensive by some. So while the game made strides to undo some of its past transgressions, it took a few steps back.

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The marketing tended to involve Rin lifting his dress a lot.

So What Now?​

The chances of there being another Catherine game are slim. The game was a test, and the teacher only gave one retake. As of this writing, there are no known plans for a sequel. Full Body was a financial success and did better critically than the original. Maybe one day, we’ll get another release that adds a fourth love interest in the form of a ghost.

ATLUS has been more interested in having LGBT themes in their games since then and improving on past problems, such as how Persona 4 had a cut gay romance or how the rerelease of Persona 5, Persona 5: Royal, rewrote a scene of two gay men sexually harassing Ryuji to them offering to introduce him to cross-dressing.

Hashino stated in an interview with Famitsu that Full Body is the original plan for the first game if they could make it back in 2011. The only difference is that they were more aware of LGBT issues when making the new game, which explains some of the additions and subtractions. He is still working with Studio Zero, and their Re Fantasy Project turned into Metaphor: ReFantazio. Naoto Hiraoka is still the GM of Persona and is presumably working on Persona 6 as of writing. Aram Jabarri somehow did not lose his job. But he did quit to become the PR manager at Playstation Games. Much to the fans’ disappointment, his presentation has never been released or leaked.

As for Catherine: Full Body, it’s fun. I suggest playing it. The original goes on sale on Steam every once in a while, so you could check that out if you don’t want to play any of the Rin segments in Full Body. It may have been a stepping stone, but Catherine is still a more mature and thoughtful game than one might expect from ATLUS. Also, Katherine is better than Catherine, and I will not listen to any other opinions.

The Trivia for Tonight…..​

If you are reading this, that means that the mods haven’t killed my account yet for posting such a scandalous article. So I would like to thank them for putting down the axe.

I first learned about Catherine by watching Pewdiepie's letsplay of the series when I was in elementary school. That probably explains somethings about me. Not good things, just things.
 
Catherine is best girl, there I've said it! She had me at I hate working and I love Video Games. One of my favorite games, always looking forward for a replay.
 
Hell yeah man. When I saw the subject I was completely onboard. Full body is one of the best things I played in recent memory! I loved all three romance options, and I thought Rin was both a breath of fresh air and incredibly wholesome. This game was legitimately joyous from me from beginning to end so I’m glad to see someone else passionately talking about it. Great read! As always haha.
 
Catherine is best girl, there I've said it! She had me at I hate working and I love Video Games. One of my favorite games, always looking forward for a replay.
Tell you what, let's establish some definitives here. Katherine is best girl, Catherine is best succubus, and Rin is best boy. Deal?
 
You're on a real hot streak with these comprehensive reviews, and I appreciate the Zeb Wells reference! (I think the reception to that story is part of why they relaunched Amazing Spider-Man this week).

I don't have too much constructive to say, I played the original version when it came out, and was immediately turned away by the depiction of Katherine and the whole....well, suffice to say it felt like a man telling a story to other men. You get used to that in life, but I didn't feel compelled to find out if this *particular* dude could muster up the nerve to talk to his girlfriend like a person or not.

It's interesting that they tried a wider spectrum of relationships as the updated the game, and honestly it's hard not to respect making a game about adults and cheating in the first place. Having an intentionally weak-willed protagonist as the anchor for the whole production might not have been the best choice, but maybe it's fascinating that he's the intended "everyman" surrogate, and the writer has some assumptions about himself and his fellows that he's exploring with a game like this. While Catherine might not do much justice to some of the topics it explores, if we had more titles *like* this from larger publishers, there'd be less scrutiny in general on any one game.

The puzzles are admittedly a blast though, and the general presentation has that stylish pop sheen that the Atlus dev teams bring to most of their work. (Metaphor Re:Fantazio had such a gorgeous UI).
 
I don't have too much constructive to say, I played the original version when it came out, and was immediately turned away by the depiction of Katherine and the whole....well, suffice to say it felt like a man telling a story to other men. You get used to that in life, but I didn't feel compelled to find out if this *particular* dude could muster up the nerve to talk to his girlfriend like a person or not.
Yeah, something that I wanted to get into but there was a limited amount of space is how Vincent isn't just a jerk in game but was far worse in development. The original story was that Vincent actively sought out an affair with Catherine and the conflict came from the coverup. A ton of ATLUS staff told Hashino not to go with this story because 1) It made Vincent even more of a prick, 2) It would defeat the point of Vincent swinging towards order if he already was already like this, and 3) Catherine wasn't even a succubus in this version of the game so there wasn't much meat to it.

Even in the final game, he constantly insults his friends and justifies the cheating by saying, 'Technically, she came on to me. So it's not my fault.' He always thinks of the consequences as, 'Katherine will be mad at me,' without questioning why she would be mad. It's always about himself to some extent.
 
Yeah, I try to get into Persona-ish games but the writing is so juvenile it is really hard to get into as an older gamer. I do appreciate that there are LGBT characters in the game, but the perspective on them is always off to me. The LGBT characters are always comedic relief or flamboyant. It would be nice to have some "normal" LGBT characters, not just the wilder stereotypes. I also thought the box puzzles at first were pretty fun, but they get real nasty near the end and I wish there was a little more variety.

All in all, Catherine was a game I wanted to like, but it really wore on me after a while. If I was 13 again, maybe I'd have a different perspective.
 
No deal ::lol
Catherine reigns supreme!
You know what? Fine. I never wanted to concur with you anyway. There is only one option left, the nuclear one. Trisha is BEST GIRL.
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Ishtar is known for killing anyone who rejects her... So remember that if you ever want to claim someone else is best girl.
 

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