Ocarina of Time modding discord incident.

[KaiserMk7]

So, a great many months ago, a prominent Ocarina of time modder encountered another user in a modding-focused discord server who desperately wanted to play an in-development hack with no public releases, so much so that he mentioned a willingness to pay for it. For reasons that elude me, moderators told this modder not to be try anything. The modder was a former dev of this project. This random user later uploaded a video of an out-of-date build of the hack to his youtube channel and was banned from the server. He argued with moderators on the matter, citing that it was the right of the people to see and experience it, but eventually relented and removed the video. He also revealed that the modder had offered him the hack at an exorbitant price when asked in DMs and he accepted it, indebting himself or nuking his savings. The modder was banned from the server and pressured by his peers into reversing the transaction. I am not presently equiped to gather more details but am willing to once I'm on a less restrictive network. In the meantime, feel free to discuss.

 

[Clippy]

Everyone in this story sounds like a twat I wouldn't want to be a part of my life.

 

[KaiserMk7]

Everyone in this story sounds like a twat I wouldn't want to be a part of my life.

Moderators included?

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

All of this over a mod? And an unfinished one at that? I mean, I could understand it if it was the newly-dumped ROM of an unreleased game or the last surviving tape of some lost media, because those things are unique (often one-off) instances of sought-after items that can command outrageous prices. That said... I have known overzealous developers in my time, and some were downright predatory with how they treated their little mods, add-ons and TCs.

Still... Going broke over something like this is just WILD.

 

[Sir Auriel of Lionel]

I feel like this isn't all that surprising for a Nintendo game fanbase. I always find they have the best fallouts and cheating scandals to have in the background for hours.

 

[KaiserMk7]

All of this over a mod? An an unfinished one at that? I mean, I could understand it if it was the newly-dumped ROM of an unreleased game or the last surviving tape of some lost media, because those things are unique (often one-off) instances of sought-after items that can command outrageous prices. That said... I have known overzealous developers in my time, and some were downright predatory with how they treated their little mods, add-ons and TCs.

Still... Going broke over something like this is just WILD.

An ambitious full-length game project being collaborated on by several prominent community members who accepted an expectation of confidentiality and selectively trickled PR trailers when they signed on to it. Doujin circle levels of passion for it by the present devs, a sense of betrayal over the incident, and a generally accepted understanding that the ex dev had no place even thinking about sharing said horribly outdated build that doesn't reflect the current product because little to none of it was his own work.

 

[Clippy]

Moderators included?

Yes. I don't have the full story and I can understand that they wouldn't want their work to be misrepresented by someone exposing an old, presumably buggy build. However:

1. I don't see what going nuclear on the guy was supposed to accomplish. They could've asked him to include the fact that the build was old and not representative of the current state of the mod. Instead they just created a jaded bloke who might be motivated to be a thorn in their side. We have seen many cases like this over the years and mishandling a situation of this nature pretty much never ends well.
2. Looks like the mods have formed a secret 'we're making a cool mod but you can't see it' club. The entire situation could've been prevented by posting updates from time to time - if not a build of the mod then at least a vid or a few screenshots. Again, I don't have the full story and I could be wrong but that's what it reads like to me.

 

[KaiserMk7]

1. I don't see what going nuclear on the guy was supposed to accomplish. They could've asked him to include the fact that the build was old and not representative of the current state of the mod. Instead they just created a jaded bloke who might be motivated to be a thorn in their side. We have seen many cases like this over the years and mishandling a situation of this nature pretty much never ends well.
2. Looks like the mods have formed a secret 'we're making a cool mod but you can't see it' club. The entire situation could've been prevented by posting updates from time to time - if not a build of the mod then at least a vid or a few screenshots. Again, I don't have the full story and I could be wrong but that's what it reads like to me.

Additional context then I guess. Apparently this big name modder had historically been unpleasant at times. He is said to have contributed almost negligibly to this particular project. A trickle of previews and public statements existed, and the moderators were not the only developers. I interpreted the goal of "going nuclear" as excommunication, like "you violated our trust and the community in pretty much the worst possible way and at the same time did something so exploitative that we can no longer respect you as a person, so you're gone. Never again."

 

[Clippy]

Additional context then I guess. Apparently this big name modder had historically been unpleasant at times. He is said to have contributed almost negligibly to this particular project. A trickle of previews and public statements existed, and the moderators were not the only developers. I interpreted the goal of "going nuclear" as excommunication, like "you violated our trust and the community in pretty much the worst possible way and at the same time did something so exploitative that we can no longer respect you as a person, so you're gone. Never again."

The modder who sold the old build did a dick move and I can't really complain about the treatment he got. Making money off other people's work notwithstanding he agreed to certain terms and backstabbing the crew the way that he did was unacceptable. Sure, it wasn't a legally binding NDA or anything like that but that was a matter of common courtesy and I can undertand why the mods reacted the way they did.

What doesn't sit right with me is how they treated the other guy. He wasn't a part of any agreements. He was just excited about the project and wanted to show it to the world. Was it cool that he did that all tings considered? Maybe not but this is the Internet and the only way to save face in a situation like this is to simply accept that it happened. Going after him may have turned the guy against them (and you never know when that can bite you in the ass) and potentially got the wrong message out about the team. Will it destroy the project? I hope not but it's certainly not doing anyone involved any favors.

 

[KaiserMk7]

What doesn't sit right with me is how they treated the other guy. He wasn't a part of any agreements. He was just excited about the project and wanted to show it to the world. Was it cool that he did that all tings considered? Maybe not but this is the Internet and the only way to save face in a situation like this is to simply accept that it happened. Going after him may have turned the guy against them (and you never know when that can bite you in the ass) and potentially got the wrong message out about the team. Will it destroy the project? I hope not but it's certainly not doing anyone involved any favors.

Oh. I think he was also firmly told no in no uncertain terms by the mods or admins in a public chat during that initial conversation where everything started to go wrong, and I would presume he was a bit bullheaded about taking down the gameplay video he posted, but that's about it. I at least assumed he was banned. I'm pretty sure he was no longer in the server afterward.

 

[ciro64]

Modding community be like:

Could there not be drama

FOR FIVE MINUTES??

 

[Sunnyside]

Going by OP's description, the discord moderators had the right idea. Both the user that wanted to pay for an in-dev hack and the modder that accepted are idiots. A surefire way to turn Nintendo's eye on you is to involve money in a fan project. Posting a video about it too? Could get the whole server in trouble. Excitement over a project is no excuse for stupidity. I think going "nuclear" was justified to protect the community. Drawing attention to a Nintendo mod project? They're lucky nobody's getting DMCA'd.

Correct me if I'm wrong. It certainly reads that way to me.

 

[KaiserMk7]

Going by OP's description, the discord moderators had the right idea. Both the user that wanted to pay for an in-dev hack and the modder that accepted are idiots. A surefire way to turn Nintendo's eye on you is to involve money in a fan project. Posting a video about it too? Could get the whole server in trouble. Excitement over a project is no excuse for stupidity. I think going "nuclear" was justified to protect the community. Drawing attention to a Nintendo mod project? They're lucky nobody's getting DMCA'd.

Correct me if I'm wrong. It certainly reads that way to me.

I mostly saw the "that was an asshole move" angle, but relatively contained publicity and no youtube trailer until it's finished sounds like a good plan and explanation.

 

[Sunnyside]

I mostly saw the "that was an asshole move" angle, but relatively contained publicity and no youtube trailer until it's finished sounds like a good plan and explanation.

I agree that it does seem like an asshole move, but I've also seen a lot of fan projects get the axe for less than that. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the moderators got so heated. It's understandable that you'd be on edge if you're working on something that could be shut down at any time. All that hard work down the tubes. I don't think I could deal with that kind of stress. That's why I have a lot of respect for fan projects, especially Nintendo ones.

 

[KaiserMk7]

I agree that it does seem like an asshole move, but I've also seen a lot of fan projects get the axe for less than that. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the moderators got so heated. It's understandable that you'd be on edge if you're working on something that could be shut down at any time. All that hard work down the tubes. I don't think I could deal with that kind of stress. That's why I have a lot of respect for fan projects, especially Nintendo ones.

I meant that I had assumed the main reason the two of them were banned is that they made asshole moves.

 

[Sunnyside]

I meant that I had assumed the main reason the two of them were banned is that they made asshole moves.

Ahh gotcha, I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[fake-kun]

I don't really see the point of bringing up this drama here.

 

[Cantarella]

the cadence of this story feels like it's being told over a campfire. I think the ending doesn't land because a guy in a werewolf mask is supposed to jump out of the darkness and delete your roms.

also this is totally unrelated but I've got some private majora's mask mods, never before seen, and no cabal of modders who hate the free market breathing down my neck.

 

[Bluewyne]

Both sides are in the wrong here.

The person who paid for the mod comes off as a clout-chaser, trying to be the first one to record and play an unreleased mod. Could have ended badly, because if Nintendo caught wind of the mod, it could have led to a C&D for the modding team.

It was scummy for the modder to attach a price to the mod, but if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't hand off my hard work for free either (since its possible that the purchaser could steal ideas from the project or publicly release the files). I agree with the ban, because you don't want members leaking or selling stuff, but as for returning the money... well no one was forcing the buyer to go through with the transaction. If it was outside of their financial means, they should have just backed off.

 

[KaiserMk7]

It was scummy for the modder to attach a price to the mod, but if I were in their shoes, I wouldn't hand off my hard work for free either

Well, this rom hack wasn't really the modder's hard work anyway. He never led the project and is said to have not contributed to it much.