Is this formula really doomed from the start?

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

There are games like Batman Forever (SNES) and Mortar Kombat Mythologies (N64) that are basically beat em ups, but they have you fight a single round with every enemy you encounter, tournament fighter style, and people REALLY look down on that formula, but I think it can be pretty fun? I mean... as long as you aren't a speedrunner, then those games would probably make you want to chew your arms off like a trapped coyote XD

Why do you think this never stuck? Is it because it's too slow? Too difficult? Too outlandish?

 

[bjork]

I can't speak much to MKM as I've only poked at it briefly, but Karateka proves that it can work. Batman Forever is such an abysmal execution of the concept, if anything it's a "what not to do" if you're going to make one of these. But really, this style probably never stuck because of the impact made by Konami brawlers and Final Fight, Streets of Rage, etc. Beating A guy can be satisfying, but what if you could beat up 700?

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

I don't know. Fundamentally, it seems pretty similar to a fighting game just with being able to move in between fights instead of having a loading screen.
It might make an interesting concept for a multiplayer game.

 

[Johnathan Smikey Johnathan Smikey]

Because if you try to clean up the formula, you just get a Beat 'em Up game with platformer elements.

 

[Deleted member 132407]

I've enjoyed Batman Returns on SNES but MK Mythologies was a huge pain in the ass, I'm sure you've seen the AVGN Cinemassacre video about it. Batman Returns was challenging even if you set the game level to Mania with lives "rest" to 7, its really fun and worth it.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

Them's Fightin' Herds was a fighting game that also tried to cram in an adventure-style story mode. While ambitious, the adventure mode (with platforming sections) didn't really gel well with fighting game controls.
Maybe the idea could be executed well, but that particular example felt to me like two very different games smashed together.

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

Karateka proves that it can work

Duuuude... I had totally forgotten about Karateka.

That's a pretty good (if wildly infuriating) one.

 

[Deleted member 132407]

Them's Fightin' Herds was a fighting game that also tried to cram in an adventure-style story mode. While ambitious, the adventure mode (with platforming sections) didn't really gel well with fighting game controls.
Maybe the idea could be executed well, but that particular example felt to me like two very different games smashed together.

That game is really fun plus I got that game free on Epic Games.

 

[Cardboardtubeknight Cardboardtubeknight]

I'd fuck with a modern rendition of that. Maybe not every enemy, have like an established character be a boss or something

 

[bjork]

A game that sprang to mind that fits here is Revengers of Vengeance on Sega CD. It isn't perfect and is definitely too difficult (I think you can level up but I never get far enough), but I think the only combat in it is 1v1 with lifebars like a fighting game.

 

[Deleted member 132407]

Another game that was challenging was Bare Knuckle 3 it includes a harder difficulty and plus this version is better than Streets of Rage 3

 

[Cardboardtubeknight Cardboardtubeknight]

I guess its already been happening. I forgot that I order to be here you have to play every single game under the sun

 

[moonbits]

The controls in MKB were atrocious, but I think these games can work.

 

[Jayonnaise6105 Jayonnaise6105]

That game is really fun plus I got that game free on Epic Games.

Same! I really like a lot about it, but I suck at fighting games in general I got it free on Epic, but I also bought it physically not too long ago. It's one of those games that gets really cheap, and the physical version includes the season pass on disc.

 

[moonbits]

The problem lies in the amount of movement you can give the player while also retaining some sort of 2D combat complexity. Like how Prince of Persia is very strict when you can platform or when you can fight.

 

[Deleted member 660650]

There are games like Batman Forever (SNES) and Mortar Kombat Mythologies (N64) that are basically beat em ups, but they have you fight a single round with every enemy you encounter

Why I dislike this is why I like beat 'em ups: Lots of enemy comes and you beat the shit out of them so when it's just 1 guy you can't have that mindless beating fun. Imagine you play Call of Duty but each time one enemy comes, it kinda makes the point of the game pointless lol. Then gotta just them as a fighter games and try to have fun as a fighter game instead.

 

[MasterEn]

There are games like Batman Forever (SNES) and Mortar Kombat Mythologies (N64) that are basically beat em ups, but they have you fight a single round with every enemy you encounter, tournament fighter style, and people REALLY look down on that formula, but I think it can be pretty fun? I mean... as long as you aren't a speedrunner, then those games would probably make you want to chew your arms off like a trapped coyote XD

Why do you think this never stuck? Is it because it's too slow? Too difficult? Too outlandish?

i think the main problem is that you fight so many enemies in the levels who are, for all intents and purposes, bosses.
to further elaborate on this, in typical side scrolling beat 'em ups, you have a barrage of enemies coming at you who usually take only a few hits. the boss at the end of the level usually has their own health bar, which is quite large in comparison to the grunts.
from what i've seen of mortal kombat mythologies, every enemy is a boss encounter. they have the same amount of health that a regular opponent would have in a fighting game's story or arcade mode. after a little while, that get's exhausting to go through. combining that with fighting in the level that you are exploring, filled with many instant kill hazards; and you will get fed up with the constant bullshit of trying to play only to game over in a few seconds when a fight starts. if the enemies had only a few health points at the start of the game and maybe about 1/3 of a boss's hp at the end, it might be more manageable.

 

[UnDubious]

A game that sprang to mind that fits here is Revengers of Vengeance on Sega CD. It isn't perfect and is definitely too difficult (I think you can level up but I never get far enough), but I think the only combat in it is 1v1 with lifebars like a fighting game.

Yeah, it's a mediocre VS fighter with a really cool story mode, basically. I've beaten it, the key IIRC was to do jobs in town first, I think it gets you money to buy equipment or something useful? I don't remember exactly. Or maybe it even gets you EXP. And then I think the order in which you fight your foes is key, since they're at different level. Jobs are shmup levels, so it's basically three genres mixed together - a VS fighter and a few shmup levels wrapped up inside a small RPG. It kind of saves it. But it is really hard to get your game going in the beginning.

 

[petran79]

Street Smart and later Pit Fighter tried that formula combining fighting games and beat-em-ups. It was fun, especially in vs or co-op.
Irony is that 2d fighters tried to copy this too, eg sfa3 DC, but you are more limited in movement