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Message: [QUOTE="Tonberry, post: 38878, member: 124861"] I don't want to egg on this discussion or anything because I had a similar reaction as Somnia's initial post after reading all this particular exchange, but I really feel like I need to add that I agree with this quote. I feel like most of the arguments presented in [USER=73]@Gorse[/USER] 's posts against indie games here come from (I assume) willful ignorance? I don't want to call you a contrarian, because you still establish why you think this way. You're allowed to not like something for just about any reason, but I think the arguments presented lack substance because the examples given simply aren't niche enough, and it feels like you're trying to sort of imply that your subjective takes have objectivity to them, even if it's probably unintentional. Comparing something like OFF to both Undertale and Earthbound because either you, or someone else, has made a connection just reeks of superficial analysis. OFF is an RPG Maker game and people oftentimes use engines like it because it simply lets them tell the story they want to tell. OFF has just as much in common with Earthbound (which I don't really agree with at all to begin with) as it does Final Fantasy 6 but you don't see people claim that it's somehow plagiarizing that game. It's sort of like demanding that there should only exist two games per genre; the one that came first and the game made by someone who really liked that one. I used to be similar when it comes to remakes, that I denounce them automatically because I feared they would replace the originals in the zeitgeist (which so far has literally never happened), unless they met my hypocritical "actually this one is okay because I think it is" test, which made me realize that I simply care too much about something I didn't care about. Disliking indie games because "then no one will want to discover the classics anymore" is something I don't really think is a real issue, because there will [I]always [/I]be people interested in old media. I don't know anything about you, but I've come to realize that arguments like these often depend on your outlook as a person, notably if you view yourself more as a consumer, an enthusiast, or an artist. I've been an artist my entire life, and I don't think there are any rules to what constitutes a video game, nor do I think there should be any, other than maybe the fact that they're interactive. The indie "scene" is massive, and listing the biggest selling indie games as an indicator of how "bad things are" is like listing only one's personally approved AAA games as an indicator of "actually everything's fine". The fact that indie games are able to become popular in the industry's current something that should be celebrated, because it allows for works that people create solely for no other reason than that they wanted to make something they'd like, and it shows that people are still interested in more traditional ways of epxression, even though time may have moved away from the technology or limitations they mimic. [B]The vast majority of these people aren't carreerist game developers in a traditional sense, they're artists who want to express themselves in the medium they like the most.[/B] If it wouldn't be "easy" to make games by yourself nowadays, you'd have nothing but a post-apocalyptic hellscape of yearly release service games, with the occasional "cinematic experience" thrown in there. You don't see this sort of pushback in things like indie comics or movies. You've already made your points in the discussion above and you don't have to respond if you think I'm just repeating what others have said (but you're of course welcome to) but I felt the need to add my two cents regardless. I apologize if I'm coming off as confrontational or abrasive anything, but it's more just that I'm reacting to the entire discussion in one post. I do not have anything against your opinions, other than that I think you sort of worded them weirdly aggressively but that's been covered in earlier posts already. (If there's one thing that I dislike about indie games, it is when the games market themselves as being "inspired by such and such" on store pages, because in that case it tells me that you're not as confident in your product as you might think. It's fine to wear your inspiration on your sleeves but you shouldn't have to use that as a way of convincing people to try it out either.) [/QUOTE]

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