Forced EULA after you bought a Game

[Retro Doomer]

What do you all think about the practice of forcing a EULA (End-User License Agreement) on a game only after you've already purchased it and taken it home? Shouldn't it be illegal to impose a EULA after the fact, rather than before you buy the product?
What happened to the idea of buying a game and truly owning it without being bound by a contract that you only find out about afterward? If companies want to enforce a EULA, they should clearly state it before the purchase, giving consumers the opportunity to accept or decline. Imposing such agreements after the sale feels unfair and deceptive. Especially for Offline Games that you play alone.
Think about it this way: would they do this with a car? Imagine buying a car and then, once you get home, the dealer comes to your house and forces you to sign a contract just to be allowed to drive your "owned" vehicle. That would be absurd.
In my opinion, a EULA should be presented before you buy a game so that you can review it and choose whether to accept it—just like you can decide whether to buy the product in the first place. Forcing it afterward means consumers may have already spent their money and time on the game, only to discover restrictions or obligations they weren’t aware of when they purchased it.
In summary, a fair practice would be to disclose all terms upfront, so consumers can make informed decisions. Imposing a EULA after the purchase undermines consumer rights and should be considered illegal.

 

[bjork]

The old way used to be that when you cracked the shrinkwrap, you were agreeing to the terms, but I don't think they were anywhere near as complex as they are nowadays.

To play devil's advocate here: what is your solution? How would one see all the terms up front? Like you walk into a game store and they have a different eula for each game they sell? I don't think you're wrong here, I just don't know how they would institute that. You can't assume everyone has a phone to scan a QR code or whatever, the stores would have to have a way to present them. But they'd probably argue that it's on the game companies to present them, just to avoid the added cost of whatever that is.

 

[Retro Doomer]

The old way used to be that when you cracked the shrinkwrap, you were agreeing to the terms, but I don't think they were anywhere near as complex as they are nowadays.

To play devil's advocate here: what is your solution? How would one see all the terms up front? Like you walk into a game store and they have a different eula for each game they sell? I don't think you're wrong here, I just don't know how they would institute that. You can't assume everyone has a phone to scan a QR code or whatever, the stores would have to have a way to present them. But they'd probably argue that it's on the game companies to present them, just to avoid the added cost of whatever that is.

I think they Overdo it with there demands.I mean things like don't Pirate the Game should be Obvious.So I think they should keep the EULA short and Simple and should not feel like reading a Book.I Believe especially for Offline Games that there should be a very Basic and short EULA that should be like old Times no need for Hundred of Demands to be able to play a Offline Game.And I mean It worked back in the days for the Old Games where you purchased the Game and did not have to agree to a EULA afterwards,and I think it can be done again at least on Offline Games on Online Games its a bit more complicated considering Hacks and so on.

 

[bjork]

If things ever swing back to being more consumer-friendly, maybe they'll do that? But for now, I think they just assume people either don't read it anyway and don't care, which I'm sure is backed up by some kind of focus testing or something. It ain't great, though.

 

[Retro Doomer]

Well it became very Obvious that Games are not made by Gamers anymore that wanted to create games and share there passion,but by greedy Suits in Companies that want to make a profit and milk Gamers for every dime we got,so who knows what they put in there EULA to get even more money and profit out of us.

 

[bjork]

It's always been that way, though. Dudes who made 2600 games were like systems analysts and stuff before they made games. On the Japanese end, it was just a new kind of toy to generate profit. Granted, we've had the few shining stars along the way, and we've been lucky that they got to share their vision. But there was no point in history that it wasn't about protecting profits and IPs, sadly.

 

[Retro Doomer]

It's always been that way, though. Dudes who made 2600 games were like systems analysts and stuff before they made games. On the Japanese end, it was just a new kind of toy to generate profit. Granted, we've had the few shining stars along the way, and we've been lucky that they got to share their vision. But there was no point in history that it wasn't about protecting profits and IPs, sadly.

what about the guys that made OG Doom and Wolfenstein Back then they where gamers that loved what they did.

 

[bjork]

what about the guys that made OG Doom and Wolfenstein Back then they where gamers that loved what they did.

Loving what you do and wanting to make money doing it are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Retro Doomer]

Loving what you do and wanting to make money doing it are not mutually exclusive.

Never said that,but its a difference if you solely do it for the money and don't care for the medium compared to a Gamer that makes those Games because he loves making them while also making a profit out of what he loves.

 

[bjork]

Never said that,but its a difference if you solely do it for the money and don't care for the medium compared to a Gamer that makes those Games because he loves making them while also making a profit out of what he loves.

That's going to be true of anything, but how does that affect a eula? Doom had a eula

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

What's interesting to me is that a lot --if not all-- EULAs are bullshit.

They are written on broad legal terms that may conflict with existing legislation on the countries they are being enforced on, making them void. Yet they always play "catcher", mining their games with "gotchas" just in case. And while I do remember the old shrinkwrap ways with less than sympathy, those were infinitely more merciful: if your game was defective after buying, they'd still replace it. Nowadays your games SHIP broken and maaaaaybe they'll fix them somewhere down the line. I don't know why we would ever agree to sign documents dooming our purchases or making them so one-sided as to turn them into rentals, yet here we are.

PS: I remember companies (mostly smaller ones) stating that they might add unwanted software on their products right on the EULAs because people wouldn't read them.

 

[ICD]

This is not okay and they try to fool the customer somehow. These are more and more mafia methods but it is a pity that many always accept that !

 

[Retro Doomer]

That's going to be true of anything, but how does that affect a eula? Doom had a eula

It can affect a EULA and it can change what you put in.Someone with Character that likes what he does normally only puts stuff in the EULA to protect himself and his Product from Piracy and other Bad stuff,while someone that could not care less about the Product/Medium puts everything in that he cans to profit even more like collecting your Data and selling it,and other shady stuff.

 

[bjork]

It can affect a EULA and it can change what you put in.Someone with Character that likes what he does normally only puts stuff the EULA to protect himself and his Product from Piracy and other Bad stuff,while someone that could care less about the Product/Medium puts everything in that he cans to profit even more like collecting your Data and selling it,and other shady stuff.

I feel like a company's legal counsel or legal department or whatever is who draws that up. I don't think when David Crane made Pitfall, that he also sat down and drew up a wordy eula?

 

[moonbits]

Well it became very Obvious that Games are not made by Gamers anymore that wanted to create games and share there passion,but by greedy Suits in Companies

passion and love and pixie dust for something doesn't get you funding, no matter how you want to twist it. It's the corpos and their profits/rules are still the ones that take the decision. Always have been like this.

The people who actually work on this area, that pour their blood, sweat and tears are more mistreated and harassed than ever before and your narrative doesn't help them.

 

[Retro Doomer]

I feel like a company's legal counsel or legal department or whatever is who draws that up. I don't think when David Crane made Pitfall, that he also sat down and drew up a wordy eula?

It highly depends on the Company and legal Advisers the get after all.Smaller companies that normally where only made out of a couple of People did not have such a large legal network in the day,unlike Companies today.So I believe a that a Company and especially a Small company normally discusses with there Legal Counsel what they put in and what not,so it in the End is still would depend on the People what gets put into the EULA or not.

Post automatically merged: Today at 5:42 PM

passion and love and pixie dust for something doesn't get you funding, no matter how you want to twist it. It's the corpos and their profits/rules are still the ones that take the decision. Always have been like this.

The people who actually work on this area, that pour their blood, sweat and tears are more mistreated and harassed than ever before and your narrative doesn't help them.

I was Talking about the very early days of PC gaming,and not about the Modern Companies.I know they are mistreated horribly nowadays with overwork and underpay and this only proves what I said that nowadays,games sadly come from greedy companies and not actual gamer,true Gamers create the Games still today but Greedy companies own and publish them unlike back in the old days.

 

[bjork]

It highly depends on the Company and legal Advisers the get after all.Smaller companies that normally where only made out of a couple of People did not have such a large legal network in the day,unlike Companies today.So I believe a that a Company and especially a Small company normally discusses with there Legal Counsel what they put in and what not,so it in the End is still would depend on the People what gets put into the EULA or not.

They would've had some kind of person they hired on to cover this. It's about protection of their product, after all.

 

[Retro Doomer]

They would've had some kind of person they hired on to cover this. It's about protection of their product, after all.

True but normally the Lawyer or whoever is responsible with making the EULA for the Product has to talk it out ´with them after all as the final decision lays with them.That only Applies to actual Independent Developers though,large Companies a lead by Greedy Suits after all where the Developers that actually create the game have nothing to decide upon as it is completely handled by the CEO who speaks with there legal team.

 

[Don Patch]

*this what I think....

 

[bjork]

True but normally the Lawyer or whoever is responsible with making the EULA for the Product has to talk it out ´with them after all as the final decision lays with them.That only Applies to actual Independent Developers though,large Companies a lead by Greedy Suits after all where the Developers that actually create the game have nothing to decide upon as it is completely handled by the CEO who speaks with there legal team.

I would be willing to wager that a CEO never even speaks with a legal team. They have people for that. It isn't like Bobby Kotick is sitting there rubbing his hands together trying to come up with wording to fuck over consumers somehow. He has shareholders to answer to and is too busy for that anyway.

 

[Retro Doomer]

I would be willing to wager that a CEO never even speaks with a legal team. They have people for that. It isn't like Bobby Kotick is sitting there rubbing his hands together trying to come up with wording to fuck over consumers somehow. He has shareholders to answer to and is too busy for that anyway.

Yeah normally the CEO of a Big Company rarely does things themselves they are far to busy counting Money unless they have to do very Important decisions,they normally put there Local Managers into the Position to do all the bothersome work for them,like legal work

 

[bjork]

Okay, you're losing me here. I get it, capitalism bad or whatever, but come on.

 

[moonbits]

I was Talking about the very early days of PC gaming,and not about the Modern Companies.I know they are mistreated horribly nowadays with overwork and underpay and this only proves what I said that nowadays,games sadly come from greedy companies and not actual gamer,true Gamers create the Games still today but Greedy companies own and publish them unlike back in the old days.

You are being very selective with "the early days" because you name Doom but then I could name Ultima and other games in those "early days" that had financial/publisher troubles regardless. Were they not passionate enough? These shouen anime motivational words don't equate to the real world.

 

[Retro Doomer]

Okay, you're losing me here. I get it, capitalism bad or whatever, but come on.

what did I say here I just said that a CEO of a Large Company is far to busy normally to do stuff themselves,that is why they have Managers to it for them that is just a normal thing Companies do.I never said anything about Capitalism bad so please don't put words into my mouth.The term they count there Money was just about them having a large amount of Money and being money oriented

 

[Waffles's iconWaffles]

passion and love and pixie dust for something doesn't get you funding, no matter how you want to twist it. It's the corpos and their profits/rules are still the ones that take the decision. Always have been like this.

The people who actually work on this area, that pour their blood, sweat and tears are more mistreated and harassed than ever before and your narrative doesn't help them.

There's a lot of truth to that, but it's not necessarily complete: companies like CodeMasters started out as two guys trying to find their way across the C64 programming guide and got to create an empire with that same mentality. Id Software also started as a weird start up writing crappy games to bundle with a magazine, and many of the same people are still at the helm of both.

The problem really starts when the suits take charge through acquisition or corporate nepotism. I remember Ritual Software being bought out and immediately heading into a direction so against itself as to fracture it, even murdering their heart-and-soul franchise (SiN) in the process. Or how Headfist Productions, a family enterprise, went bankrupt trying to deliver a product because their publisher (Fishtank Entertainment) was acquired by another (JoWood) and they weren't interested on the enormous amount of work already finished.

Hell, even Insomniac Games (Spyro the Dragon) was such a startup by friends that they almost got sued for copyright infringement when they chose their original name, not knowing it was already taken.

So, yeah, companies largely don't belong to gamers anymore, but some do. It's a shame that most are a blurry, faceless hurricane of DBAs ("Doing Businesses As"), subsidiaries and shared stocks that you don't even know who you are dealing with anymore. I guess that's what allows them to keep slaving the low-level employees that really do care even at times of record profits.