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Message: [QUOTE="Somnia, post: 62239, member: 26523"] Dragon Quest is still in the top 3 most popular JRPG franchises next to FF and Pokemon and until we see DQ12 to confirm or deny, that series is still turn based whilst reaching new heights both from a marketing and sales perspective globally. We can just say we want Final Fantasy to be turn based again, we don't need to pathologize Square Enix as being afraid or embarassed of turn based when they consistently make both small, AA and occasionally AAA scale turn based games. It quite literally does not come off like them not wanting to make them when they make multiple every year. Final Fantasy is not the totality of the company and the fact that so many treat it as such is why so many of their non-FF IP underperform even when they're great. The biggest issue with this analysis is how reductive it is. I am definitely someone who thinks a turn based AAAA JRPG could do well in the modern age, but the IP isn't exactly the juggernaut it once was. Its an IP that has varied wildly in sales from game to game for various reasons, so making any kind of "the action ones sell the same as the turn base d ones" just feels like it misses the point. FFXV is the only FF game since FFX to break 10 million in sales, but FFX, VII and XV are the only 3 games in the franchise to ever do that period. The industry is also in a vastly different place. Turn based was the norm once upon a time and now it isn't. Games used to be far cheaper and quicker to make than they used to be. Neither of these things immediately disqualify turn based as a potential money making genre especially when you have examples like Atlus' global profile continues rapidly rising and the inevitable example of Baldurs Gate 3. BG3 is a total anomaly though both in that its part of the D&D IP which is ludicrously popular and also in that it is a totally open-ended CRPG style game that is extremely different in structure from FF. Of all the reasons BG3 succeeded I struggle to find many people who chalk it up to turn based combat. Anecdotally from the handful of roommates and friends I've had who have gotten into it over the past couple years, turn based combat usually ends up being one of the things they view as a sort of "necessary evil" rather than a thing they view as a part of the game they unabashedly love. I see similar sentiments online, though again its anecdotal. As far as we know both FFXVI and Rebirth underperformed and its difficult to pin down why. Some will just say "cause they suck" or "cause action game" as shorthand but I reallt don't know. They were timed exclusives for an IP that just doesn't seem to have the same cultural relevance it once did. While FF used to constantly have new games of acclaim releasing year round, the amount of projects released has greatly diminished. FFXV also probably had the most expensive marketing campaign in all of video games to hit the sales numbers it did, though critical reception has been mixed from launch up until now. All of these things combine make the IP less of a guarantee, especially when its only on 1 of the 4 major platforms for a year or so after launch as opposed to 2-3 of them. And it is a franchise with far greater budgets behind numbered entries than something like an Atlus game. Kind of wild we've hit that point regardless of the bevy of reasons I could give for Atlus' rise to mainstream prominence too. All this word salad to just sort of say that while imo we could totally get a mainline FF game again, it isn't as simple a conversation as citing the franchise's historically inconsistent sales figures without context or saying "BG3 was successful". I mean shit, these are companies that routinely do focus tests both broadly and for specific titles to help decide on company direction. If there was ample data that said that turn based was just as if not more popular than action games globally (because FF has been a global franchise for decades now) we'd probably not be having this discussion. Besides, we can also point to an IP like Dragon Quest as another big budget RPG franchise that is prolific and yet to abandon turn based in the mainline games. Maybe DQ12 comes out and changes that, I certainly hope it isn't true. 2DHD is also a far more costly and time consuming type of game to create than many give it credit for. People talk about Octopath and what not like they're these smaller scale games when that just isn't true. Its a spectrum and most of these 2DHD games tend to fall somewhere further on the pricier side than the cheaper one based on everything we know about the studios involved and timelines of releases. I seriously do not think we need to say "Square Enix is *blank* of turn based" when we can just say what we really mean and say "I wish FF was still turn based". Any other way of phrasing it detracts from the actual point someone is trying to make because they're either flatout wrong or just beating around the bush. I don't understand why people are so stubborn that Square Enix has to be making SPECIFICALLY turn based Final Fantasy for them to act like SE doesn't hate it. If every other IP they have at every budget range is allowed to be turn based we are clearly just talking about Final Fantasy at that point. Its especially frustrating when so many of their great turn based games underperform or remain niche. People who seem to care so much about Square Enix embracing turn based seem to really not care about Square Enix turn based unless its FF. So they should just say the thing they really mean and say "I wish FF was still turn based" and leave it there. [/QUOTE]

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