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Message: [QUOTE="Mr. Daddy, post: 148854, member: 250953"] [CENTER]So, kinda like I alluded to earlier, I don't think everything is bad in Ultimatum. I generally agree that the things that you pretty much always hear people complain about like the unnecessary deaths, the cannibalism, the weird out-of-character moments, and all the other little oddities are genuinely pretty bad. But, then I think of other things, like pretty much everything Ultimate Spider-Man related. How his whole part in Ultimatum is just freaking out like a teenager, only for Professor X to try to encourage him to keep saving lives and he dedicates himself to it all in, despite some initial doubts because of how many must already be dead. Getting to really see J. Jonah Jameson witness firsthand Spidey putting everything on the line just to save average people and admitting he was wrong might be one of my if not my all time favorite moment from the character. Ultimate Thor's sub-plot of trying to save Cap and Valkyrie from Valhalla (and by extension, Hela), is pretty well done until it becomes another weird sex thing. Really though a lot of what I like boils down to more little or specific things, like the very concept of Magneto just deciding he's done and shifting the magnetic poles of the planet, a lot of the shots in the book (especially ones like [URL='https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fultimatum-was-bad-but-i-did-like-seeing-peter-challenged-v0-jmi07mdmz0yc1.jpg%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3De130af31f7cdf79aca21d726cfec529651284987']this[/URL], or [URL='https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fndggr5aUJS3p8ylrd9l3RW3JbOcvoFYDS-7H71miz9o.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D43685b8f738f8bf9ebe4aab82a67b8b789e79372']this[/URL]. That's why I'm not completely comfortable calling it just outright bad as an overall event. It's certainly far from good. Any book that makes the active decision to kill off the most popular characters from several lines of the universe it's in fundamentally can't be a good book. I just think it hits more of this weird, mixed bag grey area like the rest of the Ultimate universe itself. It's like a weird little microcosm of everything right and wrong with the Ultimate universe as a whole. [/CENTER] [CENTER]Yeah I'm also not quite sure I'd call it controversial, just maybe more of an acquired taste. A lot of modern comics readers who have only read comics from the bronze age onwards try to go back to them, to some mixed success for different reasons depending on the publisher. A lot of marvel readers can't really handle Stan Lee's "Have the characters and sometimes their thoughts and sometimes the narration bubble all say what is obviously happening on-panel, sometimes all at the same time" writing style. DC did this sometimes too, but Stan the man was a lot more infamous for it. Another thing is the goofiness though, because not only were these comics made for children, but the Silver Age is the age of comics most heavily affected by the Comics Code Authority, and I think a lot of people unfamiliar with the Silver Age don't understand just how strict and vague the rules actually were, and how much it really screwed over certain characters. Like yeah, Superman wasn't really hurt much by it, but there is a stark difference between pre-code Batman and post-code Batman. One hangs monsters from his bat-plane with a noose, the other looks at the reader and tells them that only bad guys use guns before putting on a zebra pattern batsuit. Even back then a lot of these changes hurt some characters. Batman's book itself almost got cancelled from poor sales. But when you combine goofiness that often doesn't make any sense, stories that are pretty simple, rules that include things like "Crimes shall never be presented in such a way as to create sympathy for the criminal, to promote distrust of the forces of law and justice, or to inspire others with a desire to imitate criminals.", or "In every instance good shall triumph over evil and the criminal punished for his misdeeds." essentially preventing criminals and villains being presented as anything but evil and preventing the heroes from ever being allowed to lose ever, redundant writing, and just in general a lot of other rules that forced hard changes on writers for many types of comics (and nearly outright killing certain genres like horror), you definitely start to get something that's a bit more of an acquired taste. Go into it with the mindset of just having pure, creative fun though where you know realistically anything can happen for any reason, and you'll have a good time. I think people often try to take this era way, way too seriously, and it prevents any fun to be had.[/CENTER] [/QUOTE]

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