Any tips for improve in fighting games? (TEKKEN)

[Valenchimp]

The introduction to this may be seen a little off-topic (it´s may be seen or can be seen? I suppose the first option fits better in this context) but I want to make this a little personal.

There is this friend that I appreciate like a brother, he was there for me in very harsh moments and my respect and love for him skyrocketed in little-to-no time since I first meet him, however, it´s pretty frecuent for us to not have anything to say to each other. He introduced me to fighting games, although my interest for them was latent never really played any of those since my experience with Tekken 5 when I was six. The first one we played was KOF 98 and later KOF XV, we both sucked in some degrees but there are pretty epic videos of matches between us, that feeling of rivarly was unmatched to this day and I have very warm memories of those banal but significant afternoons with him.

Displacing that awkwardly homierotic introduction here´s the problem, as time goes by I´ve noticed that his mastery in the games we play it´s exponencial in comparision with mine. We play Tekken 8 more than any other game these days, I struggle to make my way to Shinryu with King (Who is my main, I love grapplers) and I seem him with various characters in red ranks, thing that is unthinkable for me right now. Although we are in similar ranks I can´t do better than notice that his level it´s nothing but better than any other person that I fought in ranked matches.

The thing is, I understand the fundamentals but I don´t seem to be able to aplicate those concepts in my play style which I seem as erratic and weak right now, although I need to admit that my execution, what it´s really not that demanding with King, it´s not flawless I seem the application of those core elements of the game itself as my principal flaw when I´m playing.

How can I improve the use of frame knowledge to perfom better punishments or to conect more efficent launchers? How can I improve my playstyle in general? Any tips are welcome.

 

[Donte]

 

[ATenderLad]

I'll confess I'm out of the loop on Tekken, having really played since Tekken Tag Tournament at the casino I used to frequent.

That being said, a big thing that helps me is just watching videos of other people playing, ideally with the character(s) I use. Seeing how they react to situations, what they use to punish; general behavior like how often they jump in, what distance they keep to, which moves they use to maintain pressure, that sort of thing.

Also, take note of what you do that gets busted, or better yet, when do you notice you go on auto-pilot? Growing up playing the CPU in Street Fighter 2 on my SNES, I would constantly spam Guile's low heavy kick to catch the computer. It took me awhile to un-learn that, but I still notice myself doing things automatically in some games; in SF6, when the opponent whiffs a drive impact, I often try to retaliate with one of my own, like I forgot it was an option until they reminded me. So, take stock of what you do and stay alert when you play, try not to do things because it's habit.

 

[RageBurner]

While I don't have specific mechanical tips, I have some general thoughts.

Fighting games are mechanically demanding by design, which means there is no way around the need to practice. Half of getting the hang of a fighting game is study (knowledge), and the other is mechanical precision (execution).

Further, there is the concept of Yomi, understanding the flow of an opponent's intent. That cannot be taught, you need to acquire it. There more you fight against someone, the better your Yomi gets against that person. Look for the patterns, find weaknesses and exploit them.

This takes time and you have to be patient with yourself (and your friend needs to be patient with you if he expects you to fight on equal grounds).

Since you already have a main chosen, that's half of the work done - you know and will deepen your understanding of the character's ins and outs as time goes on. Depending on whether your friend has a rainbow cast of choices or sticks to one character also matters, since studying the matchup(s) is important.

 

[tenkai star]

I’m not sure how much you know, but the fastest way to learn is to lab what’s beating you. When playing a matchup you’re not familiar with, don’t try to mash out of everything. Block as much as possible. The replay will tell you what was punishable and what was duckable. That alone will get you pretty far

Disclaimer: tekken 8 made me quit but I was tekken god in 7

 

[MasterEn]

The introduction to this may be seen a little off-topic (it´s may be seen or can be seen? I suppose the first option fits better in this context) but I want to make this a little personal.

There is this friend that I appreciate like a brother, he was there for me in very harsh moments and my respect and love for him skyrocketed in little-to-no time since I first meet him, however, it´s pretty frecuent for us to not have anything to say to each other. He introduced me to fighting games, although my interest for them was latent never really played any of those since my experience with Tekken 5 when I was six. The first one we played was KOF 98 and later KOF XV, we both sucked in some degrees but there are pretty epic videos of matches between us, that feeling of rivarly was unmatched to this day and I have very warm memories of those banal but significant afternoons with him.

Displacing that awkwardly homierotic introduction here´s the problem, as time goes by I´ve noticed that his mastery in the games we play it´s exponencial in comparision with mine. We play Tekken 8 more than any other game these days, I struggle to make my way to Shinryu with King (Who is my main, I love grapplers) and I seem him with various characters in red ranks, thing that is unthinkable for me right now. Although we are in similar ranks I can´t do better than notice that his level it´s nothing but better than any other person that I fought in ranked matches.

The thing is, I understand the fundamentals but I don´t seem to be able to aplicate those concepts in my play style which I seem as erratic and weak right now, although I need to admit that my execution, what it´s really not that demanding with King, it´s not flawless I seem the application of those core elements of the game itself as my principal flaw when I´m playing.

How can I improve the use of frame knowledge to perfom better punishments or to conect more efficent launchers? How can I improve my playstyle in general? Any tips are welcome.

your best bet is to play the game with many other players, and learn everything that you can about whichever characters that you main. how fast they are, their range, strengths and weaknesses. play through the story mode and arcade mode on different difficulties. you'll mainly need practice and experience. you probably either play games lightly, or you play in other genres more. experience will help you out here a lot.

 

[Valenchimp]

I’m not sure how much you know, but the fastest way to learn is to lab what’s beating you. When playing a matchup you’re not familiar with, don’t try to mash out of everything. Block as much as possible. The replay will tell you what was punishable and what was duckable. That alone will get you pretty far

Disclaimer: tekken 8 made me quit but I was tekken god in 7

Yep, Tekken 7 was more exigent in some aspects, bought that game three years ago and the ranked matches make me cry blood. The people who still plays that game to this moment are real monsters.
Bout the replay mode, I think it´s time to see those more frecuently.

 

[Skeetos]

I bought a fightstick and started going in on MK1 until I realized it was dogwater. Seriously though more technical fighters have frame by frame training modes. I know Tekken has this, try that out. But you have to stick with it. I used to go hard in Tekken Tag 2 and Skullgirls before I just stopped playing fighting games. You'll get it down eventually.

 

[Valenchimp]

While I don't have specific mechanical tips, I have some general thoughts.

Fighting games are mechanically demanding by design, which means there is no way around the need to practice. Half of getting the hang of a fighting game is study (knowledge), and the other is mechanical precision (execution).

Further, there is the concept of Yomi, understanding the flow of an opponent's intent. That cannot be taught, you need to acquire it. There more you fight against someone, the better your Yomi gets against that person. Look for the patterns, find weaknesses and exploit them.

This takes time and you have to be patient with yourself (and your friend needs to be patient with you if he expects you to fight on equal grounds).

Since you already have a main chosen, that's half of the work done - you know and will deepen your understanding of the character's ins and outs as time goes on. Depending on whether your friend has a rainbow cast of choices or sticks to one character also matters, since studying the matchup(s) is important.

The concept of Yomi it´s new to me, but it´s something that I known I needed to improve. The match-up with Bryan it´s pretty difficult to me cause I can´t really react to his mixups and even fail to mantain a good defense against his moves. Should see some videos with this exact matchup for a better understanding.
Thanks for the reply.

 

[RanmyakuIchi]

My advice, counter intuitive as it is, would be to not worry about winning or losing and simply play for the experience.
I'd also say to lab, lab, lab. Lab your execution, lab the things you're having trouble dealing with, or just lab to limber up your fingers. Labbing in a Fighting game is like doing drills/kata in a martial art.

 

[Varyag]

I used to have a friend like that, he got me into fighting games, and he was much much better than me. Eventually I stopped playing them, but I still enjoy them enough to watch videos and follow tournaments when they happen, I always try to catch EVO when it happens. Other than direct coaching, learning directly from your friend as I did, and you probably did in the past too, I can't give direct advice. I'm sure that even in your current state you're already better than me at these games. But, I can recommend some youtube channels that I have watched before, that give very in depth and direct advice about not just playing the game in general, but also particular characters, strategy, mindset and competitive match analysis. Those would be theMainManSWE and PhiDX, they're both high level players.
here's a couple random videos from them so you get a feel for what they're like.

 

[P__Geni]

the biggest advice i can give is watch match replays, specifically on tekken 8. that game has insanely solid coaching in its replay system and iirc itll even give you the option to play part of any replay where you could have done something differently, and it'll walk you through the hows and whys of it

 

[Prism_Red]

Former Tekken tourney player here, let's take it slow, one step at a time. Here is practical advice that you could use not just in Tekken, but in all fighting games. I'm sorry if this gonna be long.

1. Acknowledge that we can't achieve mastery in short amount of time, looks to me you already went pass this phase so let's move on.

2. Get comfortable, pick controller that you like the most, the more you are familiar with it the better, fightstick is not necessarily better than a controller. Don't worry about what other people use.
There was a guy who won Guilty Gear tournament with a racing wheel, seriously, you can look it up.

3. Pick a character that you like, don't bother checking tier list, just pick one that 'speaks' to you the most, if you like King because it's easy to play then go right ahead, or if you prefer Nina because she sexy, sure why not. Just one chara is okay at the beginning, you can explore others later on.

4. Now with all that done, let's get to the actual playing part, I'm sure you've heard Bruce Lee's "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." This applies here.
You can start opening the move list, think of it as a toolbox, you do NOT need to use all of it, only use moves that is appropriate for the situation at hand. In practice you will probably gonna use only 10% of it, maybe even less (you may find any competitive 2Ds fighting game video and I bet $1000 you will see spams of fireballs and wall lock all the time).

5. Pick few simple moveset that you can execute easily. Try it few times in training and when you're ready head to the arcade or if you willing to take a loss, online.
Practice with your choice of move, learn the 'feel' of it, try to win with just the limited moveset of your choice. Once you're done and feel it's natural enough, add another move to your repertoire.

6. Keep going until you face a "wall" during play, at this point I'm sure you may notice specific enemy's move that you always fail to counter for example. Remember, a move is a part of your toolbox, it's not that you suck, you just didn't use the right tool for it. Replicate the situation on training mode, but this time find something on the movelist that you could use against it, don't forget to test it out against live opponent.

7. Repeat from step 4 until you are fully comfortable with that one character, and don't forget to take care of yourself, if you're bored or tired go ahead and play something else. 10 to 20 minutes of practice like this is enough. Patience, discipline, and having fun are the key here.

That's it! For the record, I've had trained some juniors from my college by doing simple method like this and they have participated in regional tournament before. I've also won 3-1 against someone while blindfolded and playing with my feet.
Not joking I'm serious, I wished I recorded that.

 

[RetroLaw]

Former Tekken tourney player here, let's take it slow, one step at a time. Here is practical advice that you could use not just in Tekken, but in all fighting games. I'm sorry if this gonna be long.

1. Acknowledge that we can't achieve mastery in short amount of time, looks to me you already went pass this phase so let's move on.

2. Get comfortable, pick controller that you like the most, the more you are familiar with it the better, fightstick is not necessarily better than a controller. Don't worry about what other people use.
There was a guy who won Guilty Gear tournament with a racing wheel, seriously, you can look it up.

3. Pick a character that you like, don't bother checking tier list, just pick one that 'speaks' to you the most, if you like King because it's easy to play then go right ahead, or if you prefer Nina because she sexy, sure why not. Just one chara is okay at the beginning, you can explore others later on.

4. Now with all that done, let's get to the actual playing part, I'm sure you've heard Bruce Lee's "I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times." This applies here.
You can start opening the move list, think of it as a toolbox, you do NOT need to use all of it, only use moves that is appropriate for the situation at hand. In practice you will probably gonna use only 10% of it, maybe even less (you may find any competitive 2Ds fighting game video and I bet $1000 you will see spams of fireballs and wall lock all the time).

5. Pick few simple moveset that you can execute easily. Try it few times in training and when you're ready head to the arcade or if you willing to take a loss, online.
Practice with your choice of move, learn the 'feel' of it, try to win with just the limited moveset of your choice. Once you're done and feel it's natural enough, add another move to your repertoire.

6. Keep going until you face a "wall" during play, at this point I'm sure you may notice specific enemy's move that you always fail to counter for example. Remember, a move is a part of your toolbox, it's not that you suck, you just didn't use the right tool for it. Replicate the situation on training mode, but this time find something on the movelist that you could use against it, don't forget to test it out against live opponent.

7. Repeat from step 4 until you are fully comfortable with that one character, and don't forget to take care of yourself, if you're bored or tired go ahead and play something else. 10 to 20 minutes of practice like this is enough. Patience, discipline, and having fun are the key here.

That's it! For the record, I've had trained some juniors from my college by doing simple method like this and they have participated in regional tournament before. I've also won 3-1 against someone while blindfolded and playing with my feet.
Not joking I'm serious, I wished I recorded that.

This man knows his stuff.

A big mistake is trying to do all the cool things too fast.

First step is too build muscle memory, you must be able to press the right button depending on the situation, and to do that you must limit your moveset as Prism Red said.

Not famliliar with Tekken but I guess practicing hit confirms and very basic combos to build said muscle memory is super important too.

Don't forget to send a salty message when you loose though, that's a tradition.

Once your confortable with your character toolkit and gameplan, you can delve into the cool world of learning match ups.

 

[Octopus]

What @Prism_Red said can carry over into any fightan game, particularly the bit about playing a character you like rather than a top tier because tiers only matter at a top level. I'm a terrible Tekken player (and really 3d fighting games in general) who's just plays the series casually, but something that matters in any fighting game is learning basic combos, punishes and confirms to get a rough idea of your gameplan. Learn what punishes what, what you can get away with and a quick little ditty BnB you can do off of a punish that isn't so hard that you'll drop it. Neutral is also really important, so learn what moves you can use as pokes and confirms and go from there; what's your sidestep tracking move, are you unsafe on your high string, stuff like that. Start with the basic stuff until you have no risk of dropping things, then slowly start adding in more fancy shit.

You seem to have a good amount of knowledge of frame data and stuff like that which is good, I'd recommend figuring out what your best (fastest) punish options are for punishing stuff like missed launchers and whiffed strings. I'm not a Tekken guy so I can't tell you specifics unfortunately.

Also, at least for Tekken starting basic yomi stuff is important as wakeup mix-ups are a big part of the series I've gathered, particularly on King.

 

[Prism_Red]

Not famliliar with Tekken but I guess practicing hit confirms and very basic combos to build said muscle memory is super important too.

Once the muscle memory is there, I promise the cool moves will come naturally.

You seem to have a good amount of knowledge of frame data and stuff like that which is good, I'd recommend figuring out what your best (fastest) punish options are for punishing stuff like missed launchers and whiffed strings. I'm not a Tekken guy so I can't tell you specifics unfortunately.

Oh and this is a plus, yes learning frame data will help in recognizing opponent's move, but it's not a must-learn either, it's definitely easier to utilize once you got the basics done.

 

[Octopus]

Once the muscle memory is there, I promise the cool moves will come naturally.


Oh and this is a plus, yes learning frame data will help in recognizing opponent's move, but it's not a must-learn either, it's definitely easier to utilize once you got the basics done.

Also, take this guy's words more seriously than mine; I just like to mess around for fun in Tekken, I'm not a former tournament player or anything and definitely haven't beaten anyone while blindfolded and playing with my feet
3D fighters confuse the hell out of my Street Fighter brain, particularly defence in Tekken.

 

[Num]

it would be best to show us some of your gameplay footage. i think though a lot of players have an issue of focusing a bit much on labbing combos when really you should just hone down your punishments first. all you have to remember is just one juggle combo and then what you should truly lab are punishments and spend a lot of your first time playing defensively where you just wait for the opponent to throw punches at you first before attacking. as you get in purple ranks youll start plateauing with this way of playing and thats when you need to start being the aggressor playing on offense. but until then i think its best to put it into your muscle memory where you no longer even need to think which move to use as which punishment itd just come naturally. especially king players i find lack in punishments but like i said wed need to see your gameplay to really know for sure

 

[Skeetos]

it would be best to show us some of your gameplay footage. i think though a lot of players have an issue of focusing a bit much on labbing combos when really you should just hone down your punishments first. all you have to remember is just one juggle combo and then what you should truly lab are punishments and spend a lot of your first time playing defensively where you just wait for the opponent to throw punches at you first before attacking. as you get in purple ranks youll start plateauing with this way of playing and thats when you need to start being the aggressor playing on offense. but until then i think its best to put it into your muscle memory where you no longer even need to think which move to use as which punishment itd just come naturally. especially king players i find lack in punishments but like i said wed need to see your gameplay to really know for sure

I think showing gameplay progress is a good idea. I wouldn't be so good myself at determining your skill bracket because I don't really play anymore but I think it's a good idea.

 

[Valenchimp]

it would be best to show us some of your gameplay footage. i think though a lot of players have an issue of focusing a bit much on labbing combos when really you should just hone down your punishments first. all you have to remember is just one juggle combo and then what you should truly lab are punishments and spend a lot of your first time playing defensively where you just wait for the opponent to throw punches at you first before attacking. as you get in purple ranks youll start plateauing with this way of playing and thats when you need to start being the aggressor playing on offense. but until then i think its best to put it into your muscle memory where you no longer even need to think which move to use as which punishment itd just come naturally. especially king players i find lack in punishments but like i said wed need to see your gameplay to really know for sure

I could upload some clips on youtube, the video files are to large to show some of them here. However, let people on youtube seem those brainrot matches it´s pretty embarrasing.

P.S. Today I finally fought and won against a Mighty Ruler, even finish the last round of the final match with a perfect.

 

[tropicalavera]

Go to locals. That's it - that's the whole advice.

Don't have a local scene? Start one - it only takes two people to get it going.

The trick here is that you'll learn more playing against the same people week-after-week than you'll ever learn grinding online or watching youtube videos or spending time in the lab without a clear goal. Before you get 'good' at a fighting game you have to get 'good' at playing your opponent. And it sounds like right now you're facing a bit of a block with the one opponent you've got - so you'll have to find someone else!!

If THAT isn't the advice that you need or want then I would say that Tekken 8 more than most other games has a really in-depth replay feature - and you should be watching your games back and being critical of your own game. Make a note of your panic buttons - understand what isn't working - and look into changing that habit. Character specific subreddits and stuff are good for finding out these specific things.

 

[Valenchimp]

Go to locals. That's it - that's the whole advice.

Don't have a local scene? Start one - it only takes two people to get it going.

The trick here is that you'll learn more playing against the same people week-after-week than you'll ever learn grinding online or watching youtube videos or spending time in the lab without a clear goal. Before you get 'good' at a fighting game you have to get 'good' at playing your opponent. And it sounds like right now you're facing a bit of a block with the one opponent you've got - so you'll have to find someone else!!

If THAT isn't the advice that you need or want then I would say that Tekken 8 more than most other games has a really in-depth replay feature - and you should be watching your games back and being critical of your own game. Make a note of your panic buttons - understand what isn't working - and look into changing that habit. Character specific subreddits and stuff are good for finding out these specific things.

Yep, here in Paraguay the last arcade (Astroland my beloved) closed 13 years ago and its pretty difficult to known people interested in FG. But yeah, usually I think about the chance of start something like a local scene, in my college we celebrate some sort of competition or olympics between the different schools or faculties and I know about a ESports category (I think it's only some LoL tourney or somenthing like that) Talking with the organizers may gave me an oportunity to try and maybe obtain some space in the event for a Tekken or SF amateur tourney open for the interested, dreaming don´t hurt anybody.

 

[tropicalavera]

Yep, here in Paraguay the last arcade (Astroland my beloved) closed 13 years ago and its pretty difficult to known people interested in FG. But yeah, usually I think about the chance of start something like a local scene, in my college we celebrate some sort of competition or olympics between the different schools or faculties and I know about a ESports category (I think it's only some LoL tourney or somenthing like that) Talking with the organizers may gave me an oportunity to try and maybe obtain some space in the event for a Tekken or SF amateur tourney open for the interested, dreaming don´t hurt anybody.
View attachment 20558

I'd definitely say it's worth communicating with the college to see if you can organize some sort of club or society and if you can make use of any space they may have available, but failing that you can always reach out to bars and cafes and stuff and basically just say "hey - if I had the interest and could bring in 10 or so people during a day that's usually quiet for you would that be cool?" and you'd be surprised how many are pretty happy to welcome in the customers.
This is maybe a little extra, but the following video has some good advice throughout:

BUT failing all of that the trick is just to widen the pool of people you play against - and finding other tekken players is pretty easy, I'm sure you can find people on this forum and on discord or twitter or wherever else you hang out. The important thing is to make it regular - playing 100 matches against a new random challenger each match will never be as effective a learning tool as playing the same person for 10 games.

And watch your replays!!! (Tekken 8 even gives you coaching in the replay mode!!)

 

[Don Patch]

@Prism_Red nailed it.
I'm gonna say doubly on the comfy controller part. Don't let what's "in" or "made fro fighting games/gamer-gear" sway you're personal idea of comfort and fluidity. To succeed, you need to be you at your most fluid. (I recall a dude who destroyed at a SF tournament in the 2010's with a PS1 pad because that's just what he liked)
Just make sure if you find something outside the norm that any adapter you use isn't introducing lag or additional latency. That's a big one too.